Kyler Murray Debate Thread

PDXChris

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As of this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
 
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ASUCHRIS

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As og this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
Yes, he's a bust. He was the #1 overall pick at QB, and unless you're a good to great QB, it's a failure. Kyler is just ok, and plays his worst football when the stakes are the highest.

Bust.
 

kerouac9

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As og this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
No not a bust.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As og this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
Not a bust. Not a win. Just a legitimate nfl starter.
 

Brian in Mesa

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As og this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
Record as a starter?

Here you go: 36-45-1.

Bust.
 

BirdGangThing

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Here is a fun question based on another thread about how the rookie class will pan out on Walterfootball. They predicted that when Kyler was drafted, he'd be a bust. As og this moment, does anyone consider him a bust?

20k passing yards, 3k rushing yard and 146 TDs to 57 INTs/22 fumbles lost in 82 games played
neither goat nor lame duck
 

PDXChris

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Record as a starter?

Here you go: 36-45-1.

Bust.
So Kerry Collins is a bust the too? 23rd all time in passing, made it to a SB, but was 18 games under .500 with a 81-99 record. How about Vinny Testaverde? 90-123-1 all time record, but top 15 in most stats all time. Not a reliable stat for this determination.
 

Brian in Mesa

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Disappointment maybe. No one who gets a second contract—especially with the same team—is a bust.
He should not have been given that contract. He scrubbed his social media and cried like a baby and the team gave in.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Disappointment maybe. No one who gets a second contract—especially with the same team—is a bust.
If that's your standard, there isn't much to discuss here!

Also - disappointment maybe?!? You seriously have this in the maybe category? I think it would be hard to find Cards fans that are satisfied in any way with the Kyler Murray era...one playoff appearance in 6 years is laughable in a league where nearly half the league makes the playoffs.
 

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So Kerry Collins is a bust the too? 23rd all time in passing, made it to a SB, but was 18 games under .500 with a 81-99 record. How about Vinny Testaverde? 90-123-1 all time record, but top 15 in most stats all time. Not a reliable stat for this determination.
I think most people would regard Collins and Vinny as busts. Before one late in his career single season resurgence, Vinny was the poster boy for #1 QB busts.
 

SECTION 11

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Does it mean anything that your expectations of how Kyler should play in the 2nd half of the season was achieved by 0 NFC West QBs last year?

When Darnold wins 12-7 vs JAX while throwing 3 INTs, relying on the defense and 4 FGs...that is called being bailed out.

When Stafford relies on FG's to beat SF 12-6, that is called being bailed out.

When Stafford relies on 13 pts at home vs the below average AZ def, that is called being bailed out.

When Geno Smith beats CHI 6-3, that is called being bailed out.

When Purdy has a 10 QBR vs the Rams, that is not called choking?

When Purdy loses to BUF 35-10, that is not called choking?



When Kyler Murray loses 36-33 to CAR after forcing OT, what exactly is that called?

When Kyler Murray manufactures 22 points vs a MIN def avging 16 at home, what exactly is that called?

When Kyler throws 2 INTs vs MIN, who avg getting around 2 takeaways at home, what exactly is that called?


Did Kyler ever get "bailed out" last year? No and AZ fans expect more out of their QB than that. That is not something he should even need. Always having a superior defense, a great offensive line, an amazing Owner, GM and Coach. Kyler has not excuse to need help, especially since he has always been perfectly healthy. An immature young QB was headed to a great situation when he got drafted here. Lot of assistance to improve his game and attitude. The right people in charge.

I love how fans of this team don't give a crap about when other QB's get breaks or help.

They just want to deny the fact that Kyler should even be allowed to have those things as an option sometimes.


BTW PURDY JUST GOT $265 MILLION.


And he would do so much better for us than Kyler if we drafted him. You guys have no idea.

The SF defense being top 5 multiple years, top 10 oline, multiple superstars on offense, good coach/GM have NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SUCCESS.


Be objective about our other players at least.

2023-2025:


Kittle > Ertz/Mcbride

Samuel, Jennings, Aiyuk > Brown/Harrison, Wilson, Dorch

Mccaffrey > Connor

SF Oline > AZ Oline



BUT on this forum, only this part matters and it is quantified like this.


Purdy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.

Stafford >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.

Geno >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.




=


NO HOPE. NO OPTIMISM. NO BELIEF ANYTHING CAN CHANGE.

ITS PATHETIC.




Jonathan Gannon Opening Press Conference 2023:


"There is alot of people that have helped me be in the seat that I'm in right now. But ultimately you got to make
your own mind up and have sustained positive attitude that I'm gonna get whatever I need to do in my heart and I
my mind to get it done and ultimately if it is to be it's up to me and that's the attitude that I like for our players to have as well."



Monti Ossenfort Opening Press Conference 2023:

"I'm excited to embark on this next stage in Cardinals football. We're going to focus on a completely unified message across the general manager, the head coach and ownership to what exactly we want to be as a football organization. We're going to Institute a thorough and exhaustive scouting process. We are going to turn over every stone to find the right players for this team. We are not just collecting Talent, we're going to build a team. We're going to look for the right type of players. Ego will not be tolerated in this organization. We are going to look for focused, driven people that are willing to put the team first at every step of the way. Hey no one here is happy about the results of last year. But it's not too long ago that this team was in very good position. I was witness to it firsthand two years ago when this organization came into Tennessee in Nissan Nissan stadium and ran all over us and that's what we're going to get back to."

Trust the plan Q.

Kyler can be our Jalen Hurts.


I’m pretty sure I agree with all of this. I just don’t have the energy to get through it all to confirm.
 

kerouac9

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I think most people would regard Collins and Vinny as busts. Before one late in his career single season resurgence, Vinny was the poster boy for #1 QB busts.
Kerry Collins made the pro bowl in his second season when he passed for 2454 yards with 14 TDs and 9 INTs.

What a world it was back in 1996.
 

kerouac9

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If that's your standard, there isn't much to discuss here!

Also - disappointment maybe?!? You seriously have this in the maybe category? I think it would be hard to find Cards fans that are satisfied in any way with the Kyler Murray era...one playoff appearance in 6 years is laughable in a league where nearly half the league makes the playoffs.
I generally agree but OTOH two of those seasons were injury throwaways. SO if you think about it :devil: he has one playoff appearance is three seasons when he's not a rookie and started more than 11 games.

That's pretty good!
 

Chopper0080

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Disappointment maybe. No one who gets a second contract—especially with the same team—is a bust.
Agree with disappointment label. You want your #1 overall QB to be a top 5 QB and not a top 15 QB. That said, being a top 15 QB has tremendous value.
 

Chopper0080

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The elite QBs in some order are Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, and Joe Burrow. IMO, they're the unimpeachable top tier.

There are four of them.

There's a lot of wiggle room on the 5th. There's a good argument that right now Jalen Hurts is the fifth. There's a less-good-but-still-reasonable argument that Jared Goff is actually the fifth.

I don't think there are a lot of good arguments that Kyler Murray is the fifth, or sixth, or seventh.

Maybe you could modify your assertion from (what I take to be) "Kyler Murray is good" to "Kyler Murray is good enough." I think that's the median position.
You should check out Hitman's QB ranks on twitter. I think he has Kyler 17 or 18. Interesting perspective from the mind of a pro sports bettor.
 

DVontel

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If that's your standard, there isn't much to discuss here!

Also - disappointment maybe?!? You seriously have this in the maybe category? I think it would be hard to find Cards fans that are satisfied in any way with the Kyler Murray era...one playoff appearance in 6 years is laughable in a league where nearly half the league makes the playoffs.
Is Justin Herbert a disappointment?
 

DVontel

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He should not have been given that contract. He scrubbed his social media and cried like a baby and the team gave in.
Should not, would not, could not. He got it at the end of the day & that’s what all that matters.
 

daves

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Damn pesky facts!
Who told you to bring those in here?!
I am saying is it a fair evaluation to judge his 2nd half of the season by zoning in on 3 bad throws vs SEA?
You keep claiming that Murray didn't have a bad 2nd half of the season, he just had two bad games vs. Seattle; and now you're doubling down on that by claiming it was just three bad throws! You seem to be ignoring the facts, which I posted earlier. I'll make it BIG AND BOLD AND RED so you get the message, since that seems to be your style:

Even taking out the atrocious Seattle games from his 2nd half performance, his TD:INT ratio, yards per attempt, passer rating, and QBR STILL plummeted after game 10!
So, you're saying that if you take away the games where he choked in the second half of the season, he didn't choke too badly in the second half of the season.

(a) That's not how this works
(b) That's still not true:

2024 games 1-10:
- 6-4 record (.600), 12 TD, 3 INT (4:1), 7.5 y/a, 100.8 passer rating, ~66.3 QBR
2024 games 11-17:
- 2-5 record (.286), 9 TD, 8 INT (1.1:1), 6.8 y/a, 86.9 passer rating, ~56.1 QBR
2024 games 11-17, minus Seattle games:
- 2-3 record (.400), 7 TD, 5 INT (1.4:1), 6.6 y/a, ~89.5 passer rating, ~59.8 QBR
Next point:
Does it mean anything that your expectations of how Kyler should play in the 2nd half of the season was achieved by 0 NFC West QBs last year?
Everyone DYOR on how the other NFC West QB's played in the 2nd half of 2024 then and compare it to our QB.
Apparently you didn't do YOUR own research before posting this, so I'll do some of it for you:

Stafford:
2024 games 1-10:
- 5-5 record (.500), 13 TD, 7 INT (1.9:1), 7.3 y/a, 92.1 passer rating, ~58.7 QBR
2024 games 11-16 (he sat out game 17 because HE HAD ALREADY HELPED THE RAMS CLINCH THE DIVISION TITLE):
- 5-1 record (.833), 7 TD, 1 INT (7:1), 7.2 y/a, 96.9 passer rating, ~66.9 QBR
NOTICE HOW HE GOT MUCH BETTER IN EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY? Now imagine if we gave him excuses and subtracted out his two worst games!

Darnold:
2024 games 1-10:
- 8-2 record (.800), 19 TD, 10 INT (1.9:1), 8.1 y/a, 100.0 passer rating, ~59.1 QBR
2024 games 11-17:
- 6-1 record (.857), 16 TD, 2 INT (8:1), 7.7 y/a, 105.5 passer rating, ~64.6 QBR
NOTICE HOW HE GOT MUCH BETTER IN nearly EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY?

Smith:
2024 games 1-10:
- 5-5 record (.500), 11TD, 11 INT (1:1), 7.4 y/a, 88.1 passer rating, ~52.9 QBR
2024 games 11-17:
- 5-2 record (.714), 10 TD, 4 INT (2.5:1), 7.5 y/a, 102.6 passer rating, ~52.5 QBR
NOTICE HOW HE GOT MUCH BETTER IN nearly EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY?

That's how QBs, including this year and last year's NFC West QBs aside from Purdy, get their teams to the playoffs or at least winning records (best record of any team not in the playoffs).

Good QBs study defenses MORE than their opponents study THEM, so they get BETTER at the end of the season, not WORSE.

Kyler gets worse EVERY SEASON after Call of Duty comes out. FACT!!!
 
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kerouac9

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Obviously first Kliff and now Petzing stop coaching and innovating after Call of Duty comes out and that's why Kyler forgets how to play football in December.

We should start hiring offensive playcallers who don't fall asleep after Thanksgiving.
 
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