Worst 2nd Half Performances of NFC West QB's in 2024

cardinals2025

Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2024
Posts
362
Reaction score
480
Location
AZ
* 2024
You must be registered for see images attach


*Darnold threw 3 INTs in the JAX game. They won with 4 FGs.

The Rams offensive and defensive line dominated the 2nd half of the season. Stafford was bailed out multiple times. You could literally put 20 NFL Starting QBs on LAR sometime in the 2nd half and they would all reach facing PHI. Btw other QBs don't deserve excuses for playing so bad because of "injuries." When most people would still crucify Kyler if he had an 11 QBR even if his offense was made up of ASU players.

The question becomes, if we are in similar games we lost by single digits in 2024, but in the 2nd half of 2025, is our defensive improved talent enough to make up for Kyler playing the exact same way?

Based on the attitude of this forum, I would assume the answer is we win zero more games in 2025 even if Kyler duplicates these types of performances. That the fact the 2nd half of 2023 and 2024 has included many winnable games that may not have been losses if we had more DEFENSIVE talent, means absolutely nothing. And the 7-10 record Kyler has in the 2nd half of the Gannon era, despite having one of the worst defenses in the league in 2023 and a below average defense last year, is not an improvement and we should just dwell on the SEA games, and the W/L record as proof nothing has changed. Did I project the attitudes of the negative nancies correctly?

It doesn't matter that Stafford got bailed out by an improved defense, that won't happen here. Even though it happened before in 2021.

Oh and BTW, we clearly had the worst QB in the 2nd half of the season in the NFC West. That is now indisputable based on those game logs.

It should be noted that I didn't even need to include any rush stats to prove this point or make Kyler's game logs look better. It seems to be a more viable trend that NFC West defenses often play better towards the end of the season. Compare our 2nd half of season defense vs 1st half defense. They still had bad games, but they played alot better. (2nd half started with CHI)

Remember that finishing 4-5 after starting 2-4 or even 4-4 is a collapse. And the only way to view the 2024 season is thru the prism of when we were 6-4. No other time period makes sense. We were playing like a playoff team back then you know winning 3 games by a FG in the last minute! Dominating the Bears and the Jets was a clear sign we were the best team in the NFC West. Especially the miracle win vs MIA. That wasn't fortunate at all, Kyler plays like that in his sleep.

Gannon says you should be more process driven than results oriented. Especially when the results were so unpredictably close.

At the very least in 2025, we will have more of an idea of who our team is early on because the results should be much more consistent.
 
Last edited:

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
19,910
Reaction score
19,069
Location
Modesto, California
* 2024
You must be registered for see images attach


*Darnold threw 3 INTs in the JAX game. They won with 4 FGs.

The Rams offensive and defensive line dominated the 2nd half of the season. Stafford was bailed out multiple times. You could literally put 20 NFL Starting QBs on LAR sometime in the 2nd half and they would all reach facing PHI. Btw other QBs don't deserve excuses for playing so bad because of "injuries." When most people would still crucify Kyler if he had an 11 QBR even if his offense was made up of ASU players.

The question becomes, if we are in similar games we lost by single digits in 2024, but in the 2nd half of 2025, is our defensive improved talent enough to make up for Kyler playing the exact same way?

Based on the attitude of this forum, I would assume the answer is we win zero more games in 2025 even if Kyler duplicates these types of performances. That the fact the 2nd half of 2023 and 2024 has included many winnable games that may not have been losses if we had more DEFENSIVE talent, means absolutely nothing. And the 7-10 record Kyler has in the 2nd half of the Gannon era, despite having one of the worst defenses in the league in 2023 and a below average defense last year, is not an improvement and we should just dwell on the SEA games, and the W/L record as proof nothing has changed. Did I project the attitudes of the negative nancies correctly?

It doesn't matter that Stafford got bailed out by an improved defense, that won't happen here. Even though it happened before in 2021.

Hope I have the correct narrative...

Oh and BTW, we clearly had the worst QB in the 2nd half of the season in the NFC West. That is now indisputable based on those game logs.

It seems to be a trend than NFC West defenses play better towards the end of the season.
You get yourself all caught up in stats.
Stats mean very little.
You have to watch the games. You have to watch the QB.
You have to see the chaos in his eyes.
But it's clear based on your previous postings that you think that ball bouncing off McBrides helmet was Trey's fault...instead of the poorly placed panic throw that it was.

We have all seen kyler have games with crap stats in which he actually played well...we have seen him make game saving plays on days nothing was going right.

We just haven't seen it in an absolutely must win game.
 
OP
OP
cardinals2025

cardinals2025

Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2024
Posts
362
Reaction score
480
Location
AZ
You get yourself all caught up in stats.
Stats mean very little.
You have to watch the games. You have to watch the QB.
You have to see the chaos in his eyes.
But it's clear based on your previous postings that you think that ball bouncing off McBrides helmet was Trey's fault...instead of the poorly placed panic throw that it was.

We have all seen kyler have games with crap stats in which he actually played well...we have seen him make game saving plays on days nothing was going right.

We just haven't seen it in an absolutely must win game.


What happens when QB's get bailed out in must win games like Matthew Stafford did last season?

Apparently, the answer is it gets ignored.


You are proving my point by focusing exclusively on the SEA games.

When our offensive line gave up 5 sacks and Connor couldn't manage 10 yards in SEA.

When they came here and ran the ball down our throats to the surprise of everyone with a backup RB.

I physically went to that game. I remember the entire thing extremely well.

I watched every game and I have seen all 22 footage of the SEA games.

We were outplayed and outcoached by SEA last season.

It wasn't just Kyler deciding to play poorly. I also notice signs of progress in him that people quickly forget.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media


What were the other "must win games" where Kyler choked because I don't see any others last season.

MINN he did more than enough to win. The defense let MINN go down the field multiple times after we were up 18-6 vs a top 5 defense.

Or are you referring to the 36-33 loss to CAR where our def played horrible and he still forced OT?



What the game logs prove is people expecting Kyler to play lights out in the 2nd half of the season is something not even realistic for the other NFC West qbs.

Which is what Gannon meant by "Kyler needs help." He was referring to the defensive side of the ball and how that can take stress off the offense.


Please don't go beyond 2023 to try to make a point. Stafford doesn't play with Odell Beckham in his prime anymore. I don't care what QBs did in 2021.
 
Last edited:

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
19,910
Reaction score
19,069
Location
Modesto, California
i dont believe this

stats can be overrated, but there is a very high correlation between good QB stats and wins
sorry man, in a thread full of novellas I was shooting for a bit of brevity.
Stats mean very little in determining what makes kyler murray a poor quarterback.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
39,949
Reaction score
33,413
Location
Gilbert, AZ
sorry man, in a thread full of novellas I was shooting for a bit of brevity.
Stats mean very little in determining what makes kyler murray a poor quarterback.

Do people here believe this? Like more than a handful? I think the breakdown is more like:

< 10% believe Kyler can be a top eight quarterback (alongside Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow) -- might be closer to 5% right now, but will rise in the next three-game win streak

~ 70% believe Kyler can be in the 8-12 range -- good enough to make the playoffs but can only make and win a conference championship team if the stars align with the roster around him

~20% believe Kyler is inside the middle third (12-24) and is unlikely to rise above that, making a playoff appearance and early exit the highest aspiration

~ 5% believe Kyler is a bum
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
19,910
Reaction score
19,069
Location
Modesto, California
Do people here believe this? Like more than a handful? I think the breakdown is more like:

< 10% believe Kyler can be a top eight quarterback (alongside Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow) -- might be closer to 5% right now, but will rise in the next three-game win streak

~ 70% believe Kyler can be in the 8-12 range -- good enough to make the playoffs but can only make and win a conference championship team if the stars align with the roster around him

~20% believe Kyler is inside the middle third (12-24) and is unlikely to rise above that, making a playoff appearance and early exit the highest aspiration

~ 5% believe Kyler is a bum
out of your 105 percent how many believe Kyler has so far failed to win a game that absolutely has to be won?
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
39,949
Reaction score
33,413
Location
Gilbert, AZ
out of your 105 percent how many believe Kyler has so far failed to win a game that absolutely has to be won?
I don't think that's really a question of believe -- it's a matter of fact that Kyler has failed to deliver in big games. That said, so have a lot of QBs until they do.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
41,464
Reaction score
26,899
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Do people here believe this? Like more than a handful? I think the breakdown is more like:

< 10% believe Kyler can be a top eight quarterback (alongside Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow) -- might be closer to 5% right now, but will rise in the next three-game win streak

~ 70% believe Kyler can be in the 8-12 range -- good enough to make the playoffs but can only make and win a conference championship team if the stars align with the roster around him

~20% believe Kyler is inside the middle third (12-24) and is unlikely to rise above that, making a playoff appearance and early exit the highest aspiration

~ 5% believe Kyler is a bum
20 percenter here...
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
3,732
Reaction score
8,020
Location
Orange County, CA
MINN he did more than enough to win. The defense let MINN go down the field multiple times after we were up 18-6 vs a top 5 defense.
1st quarter, 3rd & 6 at the MIN 17, Kyler threw a 4-yard dump-off to Conner and the Cards had to settle for a 32-yard FG.

2nd quarter, 2nd & 18 (after a penalty) at the MIN 22, Kyler threw a 6-yard pass to McBride followed by a 3-yard dump-off to Demercado and the Cardinals had to settle for a 31-yard FG.

4th quarter, 1st & 10 at the MIN 10, Cards clinging to a 19-16 lead with 4:14 to go, Murray draws an intentional grounding penalty. 2nd & 25, Benson ran for 9, then on 3rd & 16 Murray threw to McBride for 12 and the Cardinals had to settle for a 23-yard FG.

Then trailing 22-23, starting at the ARI 30 with 1:13 to go and needing a FG with all 3 timeouts, Murray passed to Wilson for 5, got sacked for -8, ran for 3, and threw a pick on 4th down.

Murray finished the game with 260 yards on only 5.8 y/a, 1 TD, 2 INT, and a crummy 72.5 passer rating.

Most people would not call that doing "more than enough to win". I call it "not doing nearly enough to win".

What the game logs prove is people expecting Kyler to play lights out in the 2nd half of the season is something not even realistic for the other NFC West qbs.
Kyler hasn't even played "lights out" in the 1st half of the season for YEARS, and he's played objectively and subjectively WORSE in the 2nd halves of EVERY season. You're putting up a straw man.
 

BirdGangThing

Murd Watcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
20,580
Reaction score
26,886
Location
Arcadia
1st quarter, 3rd & 6 at the MIN 17, Kyler threw a 4-yard dump-off to Conner and the Cards had to settle for a 32-yard FG.

2nd quarter, 2nd & 18 (after a penalty) at the MIN 22, Kyler threw a 6-yard pass to McBride followed by a 3-yard dump-off to Demercado and the Cardinals had to settle for a 31-yard FG.

4th quarter, 1st & 10 at the MIN 10, Cards clinging to a 19-16 lead with 4:14 to go, Murray draws an intentional grounding penalty. 2nd & 25, Benson ran for 9, then on 3rd & 16 Murray threw to McBride for 12 and the Cardinals had to settle for a 23-yard FG.

Then trailing 22-23, starting at the ARI 30 with 1:13 to go and needing a FG with all 3 timeouts, Murray passed to Wilson for 5, got sacked for -8, ran for 3, and threw a pick on 4th down.

Murray finished the game with 260 yards on only 5.8 y/a, 1 TD, 2 INT, and a crummy 72.5 passer rating.

Most people would not call that doing "more than enough to win". I call it "not doing nearly enough to win".


Kyler hasn't even played "lights out" in the 1st half of the season for YEARS, and he's played objectively and subjectively WORSE in the 2nd halves of EVERY season. You're putting up a straw man.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 
OP
OP
cardinals2025

cardinals2025

Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2024
Posts
362
Reaction score
480
Location
AZ
1st quarter, 3rd & 6 at the MIN 17, Kyler threw a 4-yard dump-off to Conner and the Cards had to settle for a 32-yard FG.

2nd quarter, 2nd & 18 (after a penalty) at the MIN 22, Kyler threw a 6-yard pass to McBride followed by a 3-yard dump-off to Demercado and the Cardinals had to settle for a 31-yard FG.

4th quarter, 1st & 10 at the MIN 10, Cards clinging to a 19-16 lead with 4:14 to go, Murray draws an intentional grounding penalty. 2nd & 25, Benson ran for 9, then on 3rd & 16 Murray threw to McBride for 12 and the Cardinals had to settle for a 23-yard FG.

Then trailing 22-23, starting at the ARI 30 with 1:13 to go and needing a FG with all 3 timeouts, Murray passed to Wilson for 5, got sacked for -8, ran for 3, and threw a pick on 4th down.

Murray finished the game with 260 yards on only 5.8 y/a, 1 TD, 2 INT, and a crummy 72.5 passer rating.

Most people would not call that doing "more than enough to win". I call it "not doing nearly enough to win".


Kyler hasn't even played "lights out" in the 1st half of the season for YEARS, and he's played objectively and subjectively WORSE in the 2nd halves of EVERY season. You're putting up a straw man.


How many points should we expect vs a top 7 defense in the league in their place where they were avg giving up 16?

Top 3 def vs the run that we gashed for 3 quarters.

How many TO's do you think a top 7 defense playing its best at home, created on a per game avg last year?

Do you even remember the Vikings won 14 games?
 
OP
OP
cardinals2025

cardinals2025

Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2024
Posts
362
Reaction score
480
Location
AZ
I don't think that's really a question of believe -- it's a matter of fact that Kyler has failed to deliver in big games. That said, so have a lot of QBs until they do.

That said, so have a lot of QBs until they do.

This is actually something I agree with.

Look I think its ridiculous that people think we don't have a playoff team in terms of talent this year.

But even if I am right, what Kyler does in playoff game #2 is
completely unpredictable.

We are all guessing. I don't consider 1 playoff game without your best WR where you were also getting outcoached vs the eventual Superbowl winner, is enough of a sample size.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
39,949
Reaction score
33,413
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Look I think its ridiculous that people think we don't have a playoff team in terms of talent this year.
I'm sure there are people that think this, just like people believe the earth is flat and Tip Reiman believes that birds aren't real. A lot of national writers who don't follow the team closely believe this.

But the people you're regularly shouting at in 26-point font on this board? You're not going to find many there who believe this. Everyone thinks this team should be alive in the playoff picture past Christmas.
 
OP
OP
cardinals2025

cardinals2025

Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2024
Posts
362
Reaction score
480
Location
AZ
i dont believe this

stats can be overrated, but there is a very high correlation between good QB stats and wins

You can definitely go overboard with stats. But I think some are too important enough to ignore.

And my point with posting the game logs is to show how our "expectations" of Kyler didn't even match what other NFC West QB's did in the 2nd half of the season.

Additionally, most people's expectations give almost no weight to the effect of having a poor defense for most of your career.

Look at any QB ranking chart and think about how many top 10 defenses the QB has had for his career. Joe Burrow is one of the only exceptions to this rule currently.

Justin Herbert has struggled record wise like Kyler has and from lack of a good defense. Last year LAC had a top 3 defense. He won 11 games.

David Carr's lackluster carreer record is completely correlated to the fact the 28 pts per game he put up multiple seasons was less than the defense allowed.
 

HookemCards

Have at you!!!!!
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Posts
1,331
Reaction score
46
Location
Temple, Texas
With regards to Murray. He's had 7 yrs. Look what Jayden Daniels did last year as a rookie with an OC that we ran out of here. I'm not a fan of Kingsbury, even though he went to my HS a few years after I graduated, but I think Murray made him look bad. He's limited because of lack of size, and leadership and killer attitude. He has poutiness and arrogance in spades, however.

I think we are a playoff team, but I sure would have loved to grab a decent starting guard, and quality #2 WR
 

PDXChris

All In!
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
32,546
Reaction score
30,462
Location
PDX
With regards to Murray. He's had 7 yrs. Look what Jayden Daniels did last year as a rookie with an OC that we ran out of here. I'm not a fan of Kingsbury, even though he went to my HS a few years after I graduated, but I think Murray made him look bad. He's limited because of lack of size, and leadership and killer attitude. He has poutiness and arrogance in spades, however.

I think we are a playoff team, but I sure would have loved to grab a decent starting guard, and quality #2 WR
Jayden Daniels' rookie year stats wise was actually pretty similar to Kyler. Kyler peaked mid way his 3rd year and hasn't been the same since.

This next comment isn't a Kyler v Jayden comment.

Lets judge Daniels/KK after season 3 to see if KK gets stale like he did in AZ or actually make needed adjustments.
 
Top