Suns @ Bucks Tuesday game thread 4-1-2025

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Come on Covert, these guys are obviously all better without Durant, evidenced by the team’s 2-16 record without him, with the only two wins coming against the equally atrocious Jazz.

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[95pro]

Durant is #6 among PF and assists. At his positions only 5 other PF's assist more. He has one of the highest TS% in the entire NBA. That means if he is not nailing his shots he is still dishing out assists at a higher rate than most at his position.

This isn't a Durant thing. This is a scheme thing. This is a production by other players not named Book (although he has had issues this season too) or KD. Guys not named Book or KD have been horribly inconsisstent. IMO, we should be blaiming the other guys for their production. Mr. Glass is a perfect example. Has has the worst season +/- on the entire team. It's -305 for the season. I know that is not the be all end all stat by itself but most of the team's overall +/- is awful.

Suns +/- Leaders 2024-25 | StatMuse

Mason Plumlee had the highest plus/minus for the Suns in 2024-25, at +54.

www.statmuse.com

KD good for 71st place in total assists, Julius Randle has more assists than him this season. The fact there are four other positions on a team make KD drop from 6th of PF's to 71 in the entire nba.

But mostly its KD's style imo, and yes a lot to do with scheme/sets, and our lack of guys who can make a 3pt shot.

Beal is just all around a net negative.

 

[Covert Rain]

KD good for 71st place in total assists, Julius Randle has more assists than him this season. The fact there are four other positions on a team make KD drop from 6th of PF's to 71 in the entire nba.

But mostly its KD's style imo, and yes a lot to do with scheme/sets, and our lack of guys who can make a 3pt shot.

Beal is just all around a net negative.

I could cherry pick multiple stats and compare them across the entire NBA and players would plummet on lists. That's why you typically don't compare a SG stats against a Centers for example. Check out the +\- of this entire team above. I think other players on this team need to be held accountable. The coach. The GM. The lack of leadership by Book or KD. Plus, Gambo was talking about this the other day and said there has been no toxicity with KD either. His teammates love playing with him. Even Booker said last week he would love to keep playing with him. There are way bigger problems on this team than KD's performance on the court.

 

[95pro]

He is not a PG. That's not his job. So you compare him to others at his position. If I used that logic for a given stat every player on this team would plummet on lists. Check out the +\- of this entire team above. I think other players on this team need to be held accountable. The coach. The GM. The lack of leadership by Book or KD. There are way bigger fish to fry.

Putting context around "6th best assisting PF" shows how far down the list KD is on assists, you were using that stat to boast his effectiveness.

 

[95pro]

I could cherry pick multiple stats and compare them across the entire NBA and players would plummet on lists. That's why you typically don't compare a SG stats against a Centers for example. Check out the +\- of this entire team above. I think other players on this team need to be held accountable. The coach. The GM. The lack of leadership by Book or KD. Plus, Gambo was talking about this the other day and said there has been no toxicity with KD either. His teammates love playing with him. Even Booker said last week he would love to keep playing with him. There are way bigger problems on this team than KD's performance on the court.

wow huge edit

 

[Covert Rain]

wow huge edit

Yeah, had not fully formed my thought. By the way, there are 450 active NBA players in the league at any given time. If KD is 71? That still puts him in the top 15% among active players. Perspective is everything. That's why I think the role and what position you play and comparing those players to each other is a better way to look at it. IMO.

 

[Chaplin]

The guy is one of the best pure scorers in NBA HISTORY and you guys are arguing about assists? Huh?

 

[Covert Rain]

The guy is one of the best pure scorers in NBA HISTORY and you guys are arguing about assists? Huh?

Not really. The topic was Durant getting his at the expense of others. His assists relative to other players at that position seems to dispel that notion. However, my overall point is KD is hardly the biggest problem we have on this team.

 

[Hoop Head]

The guy is one of the best pure scorers in NBA HISTORY and you guys are arguing about assists? Huh?

And that has won the Suns what, exactly? Know who else was a great pure scorer? Carmelo Anthony.

 

[Hoop Head]

Typical response from you. You're not dense enough to think that Durant is on the level of Carmelo Anthony are you?

Dont have a response and want to make it personal. Are you a teenager or just perpetually immature?

 

[Phrazbit]

Durant is #6 among PF and assists. At his positions only 5 other PF's assist more. He has one of the highest TS% in the entire NBA. That means if he is not nailing his shots he is still dishing out assists at a higher rate than most at his position.

This isn't a Durant thing. This is a scheme thing. This is a production by other players not named Book (although he has had issues this season too) or KD. Guys not named Book or KD have been horribly inconsisstent. IMO, we should be blaiming the other guys for their production. Mr. Glass is a perfect example. Has has the worst season +/- on the entire team. It's -305 for the season. I know that is not the be all end all stat by itself but most of the team's overall +/- is awful.

Suns +/- Leaders 2024-25 | StatMuse

Mason Plumlee had the highest plus/minus for the Suns in 2024-25, at +54.

www.statmuse.com

He is dishing out turnovers at the highest rate of his position. No one (at any position) has a turnover number as high as him while having assists as low.

Please, stop pretending Durant is anything but terrible when it comes to passing.

 

[Covert Rain]

He is dishing out turnovers at the highest rate of his position. No one (at any position) has a turnover number as high as him while having assists as low.

Please, stop pretending Durant is anything but terrible when it comes to passing.

Oh boy here we go again. Turnovers wasn't the topic at all. Never ever ever said Durant didn't have a turnover problem. He does. I said both Durant and Book have a turnover problem. If you want to revisit that conversation there is a search function. Not interested in having it again.

 

[Adrian]

@Chaplin
Would you please stop calling people dense. Thank you

Now behave everyone so I can enjoy the hockey game.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Ronin

Enjoy the hockey game!

 

[Chaplin]

@Chaplin
Would you please stop calling people dense. Thank you

Now behave everyone so I can enjoy the hockey game.

I deleted the post, what else do you want?

 

[Phrazbit]

Oh boy here we go again. Turnovers wasn't the topic at all. Never ever ever said Durant didn't have a turnover problem. He does. I said both Durant and Book have a turnover problem. If you want to revisit that conversation there is a search function. Not interested in having it again.

Assists and turnovers go hand in hand, it's like talking about shots made and ignoring the misses.

Durant's passing stats are absolutely awful. If you want me to stop mentioning his turnovers then stop pretending he's anything but terrible at passing the ball.

There is a lot of stuff he is great at, but passing and creating for others are not among them.

 

[djm75]

But mostly its KD's style imo, and yes a lot to do with scheme/sets, and our lack of guys who can make a 3pt shot.

This is not true. We have four guys shooting over 40%, we are 3rd best 3-point shooting team, and if not for Booker’s horrendous shooting we would have been THE BEST 3-point shooting team.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is not true. We have four guys shooting over 40%, we are 3rd best 3-point shooting team, and if not for Booker’s horrendous shooting we would have been THE BEST 3-point shooting team.

It's not that simple. The offense is slow and plodding. Why is that? KD wants to go iso and dribble the air out of the ball. The Suns are middle of the pack in 3pt attempts per game. Is that Booker's fault, somehow? That's the offense. There are many teams with 4 guys shooting 40%+ from 3 also. That alone doesn't make a winning team.

We're 3rd lowest in FG attempts per game. That is the result of turnovers, slow offense, and poor rebounding.

 

[Phrazbit]

This is not true. We have four guys shooting over 40%, we are 3rd best 3-point shooting team, and if not for Booker’s horrendous shooting we would have been THE BEST 3-point shooting team.

It's a fast pace, 3 and D league... we swapped two of the best players in the entire league in that role for Durant (while also giving up a decade of our future). What little assets we had left we used to bring in dudes like Allen, Eric Gordon... ect. Dudes who did absolutely nothing to fill the massive holes.

3 point percentage isn't a problem... pace is a problem, defense is a problem, hustle is a problem, turnovers is a problem, having players who don't get their coach fired every year is a problem.

It is a roster constructed by a terrible knee jerk trade and then filled out with players that only exacerbated the weaknesses.

 

[djm75]

It's not that simple. The offense is slow and plodding. Why is that? KD wants to go iso and dribble the air out of the ball. The Suns are middle of the pack in 3pt attempts per game. Is that Booker's fault, somehow? That's the offense. There are many teams with 4 guys shooting 40%+ from 3 also. That alone doesn't make a winning team.

I was only arguing with the statement that the Suns lack good 3-point shooters. They don’t, it’s just that they are not utilized effectively. As you said, the Suns are in the middle of the pack in 3-point attempts. And it’s a real shame that Booker, who is a mediocre 3-point shooter, attempts to shoot threes waaay more often than the guys who really should shoot them instead.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I have known idea what the Suns can get for Durant and Booker. But my feeling is they will suck until Beals contract is gone. So they can trade one and maybe be a play in team. I say trade Booker, some say both. Some say Durant and some say the Gm coach every player but the young guns. Biggest off-season I can remember problem is I'm so old I can't remember crap

 

[djm75]

There are many teams with 4 guys shooting 40%+ from 3 also. That alone doesn't make a winning team.

Out of curiousity I went to check. It turns out that the Suns are the only team with 4 players shooting 40% from 3. Interesting fact.

 

[taz02]

I have known idea what the Suns can get for Durant and Booker. But my feeling is they will suck until Beals contract is gone. So they can trade one and maybe be a play in team. I say trade Booker, some say both. Some say Durant and some say the Gm coach every player but the young guns. Biggest off-season I can remember problem is I'm so old I can't remember crap

Lucky, you'll be able to forget this season quickly.

 

[Hoop Head]

Out of curiousity I went to check. It turns out that the Suns are the only team with 4 players shooting 40% from 3. Interesting fact.

Not sure where you found those stats. First team I checked, Cleveland, and they have Garland, Jerome, Porter Jr, Niang, and Hunter all shooting higher than 40%.

2024-25 Cleveland Cavaliers Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest Cleveland Cavaliers Roster and Stats for 2024-25 on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[Mainstreet]

I think @djm75 may be using basketball reference to get the Suns 3-point shooting percentages?

Suns players shooting over .400 from that range are Durant, Jones, Allen, O'Neale and Gillespie (two-way).

2024-25 Phoenix Suns Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest Phoenix Suns Roster and Stats for 2024-25 on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com