Who Are These Guys

[Harry]

With apologies to Butch & Sundance for stealing that line, this is the question everyone is asking. JetStream linked the Fox article and yesterday 2 USA Today writers predicted the Cards wouldn't even make the playoffs. I liked Shaggy's comment that it was hard to know who the Cards were.

Don't expect a definitve answer to the question. I'm not even sure the Cards know the answer. The reason is simple for the most part they haven't had to be anyone other than who they've been. I think they really believed to the end that they would win the two games they lost. Both losses came from correctable mistakes. Before everyone indicts the Cards they should look at the reason they call some results upsets. If you're not getting rich gambling you already know the answer; every week teams lose games they shouldn't. That's why 16-0 is so rare! Those losses really prove little.

The real question isn't should the Cards have lost those games, rather it's how many will they win going forward. I think at least 5. Here's why. On the offensive side of the ball this team has the most talented skill players in the league by a wide margin. They will win games by simply outscouring some teams. The line has issues, but if they stay heathy I expect their play to improve. I don't care which defense is on the field, this offense will put up many points against most of them.

Special teams is a concern. Still I think it's unlikely they cost a game. They certainly won't cost more than one. The Cards have options to return. The punter is marginal, but can be replaced if need be.

So where's the beef (another shameless steal)? It has to be with the defense. I think they improve as well. There's a DC learning curve and I think Bettcher is doing fine. Yes, he blew the Pitt game, but he knew how. The Rams were a trap game and turnovers sealed that deal. Don't get me wrong, the Rams are improved. Still I think the Cards are better and will win in STL if they keep Palmer alive. They will stop Gurley.

Freeney and a returning Okafor should produce more passer pressure. I look for more second half blitzing. They'll get burned here and there, but they'll get more pressure. With players moving in and out plus new starters in the front seven, the Cards need to communicate better. They will. They need more discipline and to show more trust that other players will handle their business. This defense will come together more.

BA will be BA, but nobody wants to win more. He'll be in everyone's face with the offense and that's fine. This team has the talent to execute: see 2014 with Palmer!

In the end this team hasn't beaten good teams for the simplest of reasons. They haven't played good teams. When they do they'll beat most. This is a playoff team and a division win wouldn't shock me. With both the Cards & Seahawks having bye weeks, the NFL has set up a great Sunday matchup. Enjoy!

 

[Shane]

Great write up Harry!! Thanks for the thoughts. Always a pleasure to hear from you!!!

 

[Mitch]

What I would first like to challenge is how so many pundits and fans have disregarded the Cardinals' 6-2 record as being a reflection of playing poor teams. While several of the teams the Cardinals have beaten have poor records---the teams themselves are not exactly poor. The win over the Saints is looking better each week, as the Saints are suddenly putting up big numbers and points---any time you face Drew Brees at QB with Sean Payton as OC/HC, you have your work cut out for you. Chicago is making strides. The Lions had just come one missed penalty away from beating the Seahawks in Seattle. The Ravens have been playing every game down to the wire and lead the league in narrow losses. And the Browns---if Joe Haden and their secondary wasn't so banged up and if Josh McCown were healthy, that is a very capable team. It's no fluke that they played a very good half of football versus the Cardinals----and they are capable of doing that versus any team they play at home (when they are healthy).

What's impressive is that Cardinals are 3-1 on the road (and all of the games have been east of the Mississippi). Winning on the road in the NFL is no simple task---ever---let alone winning over in the Eastern time zone.

Darren Urban just wrote a post wherein he suggests that the 2 losses may come back to haunt the Cardinals, and that the Cardinals really should be 8-0.

But how many people recognize that the Cardinals could be 5-3 or 4-4 at this point? The Seahawks are 4-4. The Giants are 4-4. And both of those teams have found a way to lose close games late in the contests.

The hump that the Cardinals need to find a way to surmount is winning games in which they are getting bullied and out-hit. The Rams and the Steelers out-hit the Cardinals and in both games Carson Palmer hurried two ill-advised throws, both of which were intercepted in the end zone. Not to put those losses on Palmer----but those two key mistakes were symbolic of what happens to teams and QBs who are getting pressured and out-hit.

For the past five years or so I have been writing posts called "Cardinal Tough" because it was clear to me that the Cardinals were getting out-bullied in their own division and by other foes.

The 49ers have previously had the Cardinals' number because they physically and mentally intimidated the Cardinals. Happily this is no longer the case, at least this year. However, the Rams have now become legitimate bullies---they bring the hammer down on defense and now they now have a legit power running game with Todd Gurley.

The Seahawks, as we all know, have been the bully of the division---which is what makes next week's game for the Cardinals so compelling.

How tough are this year's Cardinals? Can they stand up to the bullies this year?

My own sense is that the Cardinals have narrowed the gap perhaps more than some realize---especially up front on both sides of the ball. They are running the ball now with much more consistency and push. Where they still get in trouble is in allowing backfield penetration on plays where they pull the guards---because this line is more physical, but they are not particularly quick on sudden down blocks. When BA has simplified the blocking to zone schemes, the line has been effective. Moreover, I think the line would be even more physical and better with Earl Watford at RT. In my opinion, he is a better player and better athlete than Bobby Massie.

The defensive line is more physical. Rodney Gunter is consistently knocking his man two yards into the backfield---now he needs to shed faster to get key TFLs. Foster Rucker is playing very hard and aggressively. BA is riding Calais Campbell's butt because if Campbell can start to dominate---then the Cardinals could finally become the bullies and not the other way around.

While the linebackers are not as quick or fast as one might desire, they are more physical this year. Minter, Bucannon, Golden and Okaforhave good motors, they battle tenaciously and they play hard to the whistle---the thing is all four of them are so close to finishing off plays---and once they gain more experience and hone their techniques, they might get the ball one step faster and thus finish off plays that thus far they have been close to doing more regularly. All four of them are hitters.

The secondary is more physical this year---Mathieu leads the way---Jefferson has developed into a tough tackler---Justin Bethel is tough---and Patrick Peterson has been tackling harder than ever before. Rashad Johnson has been steady and has put sone good licks in on some tackles over the middle or down the chute.

Chris Johnson is breaking tackles---so is David Johnson on some of his rare carries and receptions.

Carson Palmer is one tough hombre. Yes, he's rushed some throws, but for the most part, he has been very aggressive, tough in the pocket and accurate.

The Cardinals' WRs have never been tougher---look at Fitzgerald. Floyd has been surging. Even John Brown has shown he is not backing down, although he needs to duck tackles more regularly and he will.

The point is---the Cardinals are making progress. Are they all the way there yet? Well, next Sunday's game at Seattle may be a barometer. It should be very interesting to see.

 

[az jam]

Good write ups by Harry and Mitch. I could care less about the records of teams they played. Wins are tough in the NFL. There are no gimmes. I think Keim and BA have built a tough team that will be in every game.

 

[TJ]

Two warts this team has--inability to adjust on defense and special teams is a mess from punting, kick coverage, KOR, and Catanzaro penchant for missing the occasional XP.

I'm not going to lament on the losses as they are what they are. If I had told you all before the season that we'd be 6-2 going into the bye, the majority of you would sign up for that without hesitation.

Here's how the division can be won:

1) Win at least five games
2) Must split with Seattle
3) Exact revenge against St Louis
4) Win games you're supposed to (@SF, @PHI, MIN)
5) Learn to adjust on defense (e.g. not hyper focus on a Mike Vick-type QB only to look lost against a pocket passing Landry Jones)
6) Get rid of Butler

 

[Brighteyes]

Is there also a bit of residue about losing to the Cardinals? A sort of Red Taint?

Saints lose opening game in Arizona - and suddenly the Saints are awful. It took them a few games to recover. The first week Chicago comes a few plays short of beating the Packers IN LAMBEAU, and they're very good. The next week they lose to us at home (and lose a QB), and suddenly they're terrible.

Even the 49'ers, who beat the Vikings and then got blown out in Pittsburgh, weren't dead and buried until WE blew them out.

Or maybe I'm just overly sensitive ...

 

[kerouac9]

Are we 100% sure that Carson Palmer can win a shoot-out? Our high-variance passing offense can lead to some blowouts (especially when the defense can produce turnovers), but I want to see the Cards win a 42-35 game before I'm sure that we can stand toe-to-toe with great offenses and trust Palmer.

 

[football karma]

Why I am optimistic:

In the two losses-- the team still put up 400+ yards of offense and Palmer completed 60%+ of his passes with solid avg per attempt. So the team moved the ball with relative ease--

Turnovers were the issue obviously -- but they have tended to come from fumbles. With 8 lost fumbles, the Cards are among NFL leaders there. Setting aside fumbles from the QB position from pressure ( not a Card problem)-- fumbles tend to be random. Example: Chris Johnson isn't a fumbler - yet he lost two last game. Said simply: it's really unlikely that the Cards lose 8 more fumbles the rest of the season.

Lastly- I think the offensive line will improve as they play together more -- and I am throwing the TE group in that mix as well

 

[NJCardFan]

The only loss that is a real downer is the Stealers game. On retrospect, losing to the Rams, a tough divisional opponent, happens from time to time. Not many teams sweep their division. Yes losing at home sucks but I can't think of a time when the Rams didn't give us a good game. Hell, losing to them 2 years ago in week 1 is the main reason we missed the playoffs. But the Stealers game, we missed a tremendous opportunity to beat a good team who was beat up. We played sloppily, with zero discipline, and with no fire in our bellies. We went into the locker room up only 10-3 when we should have been blowing them out. That is the only game that really got away from us. The Rams loss we played behind the 8 ball all game and still had a chance to win if it weren't for a dopey 10 yard pass when all we needed was 2 yards. Truth is, we're going to lose games. Everybody loses. It's the manner in which you lose and deal with that loss that makes a champion.

That said, Seattle is beatable even at home. We can win next week but if we lose, it's tolerable as long as we give them a game and don't look bad doing it like last year.

 

[Buckybird]

Are we 100% sure that Carson Palmer can win a shoot-out? Our high-variance passing offense can lead to some blowouts (especially when the defense can produce turnovers), but I want to see the Cards win a 42-35 game before I'm sure that we can stand toe-to-toe with great offenses and trust Palmer.

As Chris Carter & his crew would say "come on man". Sure he can!!! Hard to do when your defense ain't giving up 35 lol

 

[Buckybird]

Why I am optimistic:

In the two losses-- the team still put up 400+ yards of offense and Palmer completed 60%+ of his passes with solid avg per attempt. So the team moved the ball with relative ease--

Turnovers were the issue obviously -- but they have tended to come from fumbles. With 8 lost fumbles, the Cards are among NFL leaders there. Setting aside fumbles from the QB position from pressure ( not a Card problem)-- fumbles tend to be random. Example: Chris Johnson isn't a fumbler - yet he lost two last game. Said simply: it's really unlikely that the Cards lose 8 more fumbles the rest of the season.

Lastly- I think the offensive line will improve as they play together more -- and I am throwing the TE group in that mix as well

yep

With this dynamic offense the Cards can beat anyone, any week.

 

[Buckybird]

Good notes from our 2 football gurus

 

[PACardsFan]

Why I am optimistic:

In the two losses-- the team still put up 400+ yards of offense and Palmer completed 60%+ of his passes with solid avg per attempt. So the team moved the ball with relative ease--

Turnovers were the issue obviously -- but they have tended to come from fumbles. With 8 lost fumbles, the Cards are among NFL leaders there. Setting aside fumbles from the QB position from pressure ( not a Card problem)-- fumbles tend to be random. Example: Chris Johnson isn't a fumbler - yet he lost two last game. Said simply: it's really unlikely that the Cards lose 8 more fumbles the rest of the season.

Lastly- I think the offensive line will improve as they play together more -- and I am throwing the TE group in that mix as well

I agree. It's all about turnovers for us. If we limit our turnovers, we can beat anyone, anywhere. Did anyone really think we'd start the season 8-0?? Should we have lost those games? Probably not. But bottom line, I'll take a 6-2 start every year & be thrilled! Let's not forget that the officiating in the Steeler game had more to do with us losing than even the turnovers did. It'll be tough to win in Seattle next week, but I fully expect us to.

 

[Shane]

Good notes from our 2 football gurus

Thanks bro

 

[Buckybird]

Thanks bro

I wasn't counting you, Cbus & me because we didn't really add anything to their comments here.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

To answer the OP, these guy are good, real good.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

All of these national pundits are ****ing idiots...sick of this crap...the Cardinals are good, freaking get over it...on pace for 3rd consecutive double digit win season. WTF does this team have to do? Why is this THE ONLY franchise who's accomplishments are the target for diminishment for the sake of diminishment?

 

[Cheesebeef]

All of these national pundits are ****ing idiots...sick of this crap...the Cardinals are good, freaking get over it...on pace for 3rd consecutive double digit win season. WTF does this team have to do? Why is this THE ONLY franchise who's accomplishments are the target for diminishment for the sake of diminishment?

I don't know... win a division title? win a playoff game? beat a team with a winning record? You make it seem like this team has been a consistent playoff team forever, winning games there and division titles. Reality is, as far as the Cardinals are concerned, they've proved a lot in comparison with their history, but as far as the ELITE teams are concerned, we've yet to accomplish anything.

reality is this team IS good (and almost every power ranking acknowledges that), but HOW good is still completely up for debate because of the schedule we've played so far, plus the fact that this team hasn't won anything of note in the last two years prior to this one.

 

[Jetstream Green]

With apologies to Butch & Sundance for stealing that line, this is the question everyone is asking. JetStream linked the Fox article and yesterday 2 USA Today writers predicted the Cards wouldn't even make the playoffs. I liked Shaggy's comment that it was hard to know who the Cards were.

Don't expect a definitve answer to the question. I'm not even sure the Cards know the answer. The reason is simple for the most part they haven't had to be anyone other than who they've been. I think they really believed to the end that they would win the two games they lost. Both losses came from correctable mistakes. Before everyone indicts the Cards they should look at the reason they call some results upsets. If you're not getting rich gambling you already know the answer; every week teams lose games they shouldn't. That's why 16-0 is so rare! Those losses really prove little.

The real question isn't should the Cards have lost those games, rather it's how many will they win going forward. I think at least 5. Here's why. On the offensive side of the ball this team has the most talented skill players in the league by a wide margin. They will win games by simply outscouring some teams. The line has issues, but if they stay heathy I expect their play to improve. I don't care which defense is on the field, this offense will put up many points against most of them.

Special teams is a concern. Still I think it's unlikely they cost a game. They certainly won't cost more than one. The Cards have options to return. The punter is marginal, but can be replaced if need be.

So where's the beef (another shameless steal)? It has to be with the defense. I think they improve as well. There's a DC learning curve and I think Bettcher is doing fine. Yes, he blew the Pitt game, but he knew how. The Rams were a trap game and turnovers sealed that deal. Don't get me wrong, the Rams are improved. Still I think the Cards are better and will win in STL if they keep Palmer alive. They will stop Gurley.

Freeney and a returning Okafor should produce more passer pressure. I look for more second half blitzing. They'll get burned here and there, but they'll get more pressure. With players moving in and out plus new starters in the front seven, the Cards need to communicate better. They will. They need more discipline and to show more trust that other players will handle their business. This defense will come together more.

BA will be BA, but nobody wants to win more. He'll be in everyone's face with the offense and that's fine. This team has the talent to execute: see 2014 with Palmer!

In the end this team hasn't beaten good teams for the simplest of reasons. They haven't played good teams. When they do they'll beat most. This is a playoff team and a division win wouldn't shock me. With both the Cards & Seahawks having bye weeks, the NFL has set up a great Sunday matchup. Enjoy!

Which will be interesting when we play Seattle because to quote "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" again... Wilson is better when he moves lol

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I don't know... win a division title? win a playoff game? beat a team with a winning record? You make it seem like this team has been a consistent playoff team forever, winning games there and division titles. Reality is, as far as the Cardinals are concerned, they've proved a lot in comparison with their history, but as far as the ELITE teams are concerned, we've yet to accomplish anything.

reality is this team IS good (and almost every power ranking acknowledges that), but HOW good is still completely up for debate because of the schedule we've played so far, plus the fact that this team hasn't won anything of note in the last two years prior to this one.

You can't blame what happened last season on failure to capitalize, they were devastated by injuries last season...Seatlje was one play away from consecutive Super Bowl victories...and, they have been a very good team for 6 of past 9 seasons... The USA Today stuff is pure crap.