Where do your loyalties lie?

[Red Hawk]

In what sadly has become the true aspect of Cardinals fans it is time for the war of words between those who would find fault with the team and the "loyalist" fans. Among the myriad of "discussions" there seems to be a difference of opinion about who one should be loyal to when it comes to the ARIZONA CARDINALS.
There are those whose allegiance lies with the home team, the ARIZONA, those who would be the ones in the seats at a home game.
There are those whose allegiance lies with team the CARDINALS, those who would buy the merchandise and support the team from all points East and West.

Of these groups I am of the former.

It seems every season some cure for the teams ills comes and goes. With the stadium being the last best hope for a better future.
If this structure of concrete and steel fails to be the great panacea, then at this point what is best for ARIZONA and what is best for the CARDINALS will be vastly different.
At this point some of the more drastic measures may in fact be are only recourse. Including the various scenarios resulting in the end of the the CARDINALS organization association with ARIZONA.

What are you willing to lose?
How far are you willing to go?

Where do your loyalties lie?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I am for the team, especially for the state, but ultimately against Bill Bidwill. He has proven himself to be a wonderful businessman, but the worst owner of a team, probably in professional sports. His way of handling business, and his reputation throughout this league have ******** any hope for success. Reputation and past preformance are essential in luring good players, and clearly, the quality free agents want no part of this. His history of futility is almost unmatched in professional sports, and while the Red Sox and the Cubs have had longer stretches of futility, their teams have made a consistent effort to put a winning product on the field. Being a Cardinals fan is a constant disappointment. Yet, I go on.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

My loyalties lie with the home team.

My loyalty lies with Arizona.

The Cardinals reside here where I live.

If they leave, so does my loyalty with them.

The Cardinals would always have a special place in my heart, but if they are not the Arizona, or Phoenix, or Glendale, or Tucson, or Flagstaff Cardinals then I will find a new team to follow.

 

[thirty-two]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
My loyalties lie with the home team.

My loyalty lies with Arizona.

The Cardinals reside here where I live.

If they leave, so does my loyalty with them.

The Cardinals would always have a special place in my heart, but if they are not the Arizona, or Phoenix, or Glendale, or Tucson, or Flagstaff Cardinals then I will find a new team to follow.

Great post - I feel the same way.

 

[arthurracoon]

I lived in Buffalo...I was a Bills fan...
I live in Phoenix...I am a Cards fan first, Bills fan second...
...etc...

 

[DRVNFAST]

It's been a little harder since moving away from Phx last year, but I am still a die-hard. (althought they aren't making it easy on me as of late)

 

[Cheesebeef]

my loyalty lies in Arizona - the Cards play here - thus my loyalty lies in the Cards. Doesn't mean I have to sit back and take the crap they enjoy shoveling in our mouths. Hell even if they left they would still be my team -although there's a lot of me that actually thinks I would hate them with a passion until we got an expansion team and then I would just laugh at them without the hurt I have now.

Make no mistake - did anyone think Charlotte would get an expansion team in B-Ball after they had trouble filling 3/5s of their stadium because of their horrible owner? It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the owner was the reason Hornets fans stopped going to game. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out much of the same is the problem here - especially when you have an owner who is sitting on 12 million dollars in cap space. The NFL knows what kind of market Phoenix is - there would be hope for an expansion team here if for some unknown reason the Cards imploded or vanished from the Earth for some reason - but since those ain't gonna happen -my loyalty likely will always reside with the Cards because they play in AZ.

 

[seesred]

When I l;ived in Brooklyn N.Y. my loyalties were with the Bklyn Dodgers, when they moved to L.A. I never rooted for them again.

My Loyalties lie with the home team.

GBR

 

[conraddobler]

Obviously I got hooked some time ago.

I live in KC and now would be a great time to switch teams if I could but of course that's not an option.

I like watching the Chiefs and going to the games because it is fun and relaxing I don't care that much so it's all good.

The worst time I ever had at a football game was watching the Cardinals in person get throttled by the Chiefs.

I cannot remember when being a Cardinals fan was fun mostly it's just moments of joy punctuated by long stretches of despair and mixed in with pure terror "usually watching the defense protect a rare lead"

I blame management and now I blame Rod Graves, either he chose not to spend the cap $ or he was told not too either way it's an indictment. He is either a puppet or a fool.

That does not excuse this coaching staff by any means though the talent does not = what they produced on the field. The coaching staff needs replacing and that is a seperate issue from the ownership problem altogether.

Players are to blame too but in the end they are only responsible for their professional attitude and that is something the organization needs to help instill in the first place.

Rod Graves made some strides and in typical Cardinal fashion made sure his good deeds were washed away in a flood of incompetence. We have watched as players we passed on made plays against us. Okefor is inexcusable we need new doctors or something he looked good to me.

 

[Redmark]

Originally posted by conraddobler
I cannot remember when being a Cardinals fan was fun mostly it's just moments of joy punctuated by long stretches of despair and mixed in with pure terror "usually watching the defense protect a rare lead"

1970, 1974-75, 1984, 1998

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
My loyalties lie with the home team.

My loyalty lies with Arizona.

The Cardinals reside here where I live.

If they leave, so does my loyalty with them.

The Cardinals would always have a special place in my heart, but if they are not the Arizona, or Phoenix, or Glendale, or Tucson, or Flagstaff Cardinals then I will find a new team to follow.

Why find a new team when the cards will have a place in your heart and there will be no other pro team in the state(unless you consider the Rattlers)??? Really makes no sense???

 

[40yearfan]

Anyone who thinks the Cards will not move into the new stadium has got a loose screw. The stadium can't be built without the Cardinals organization as they are paying for almost 40% of the cost. They also have signed a long term lease (20 - 25 years?) and are liable for the cost of that lease. If something happened to the team and they were disbanded, bankrupt, etc. and there were no longer a Cardinal organization, construction on the stadium could not be finished. It would set there 60% done and become a great liability for all concerned.

In order to get an expansion team or have an existing team move here, someone would have to come up with the money to finish it and I'll guarantee you, it wouldn't be the team this place would try to attract. The stadium would have to be built and ready for occupancy in order to lure a team here and additional dollars would have to go into the move to make it financially friendly to that team. That will never happen here. The voters would never allow it.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Anyone who thinks the Cards will not move into the new stadium has got a loose screw. The stadium can't be built without the Cardinals organization as they are paying for almost 40% of the cost. They also have signed a long term lease (20 - 25 years?) and are liable for the cost of that lease. If something happened to the team and they were disbanded, bankrupt, etc. and there were no longer a Cardinal organization, construction on the stadium could not be finished. It would set there 60% done and become a great liability for all concerned.

In order to get an expansion team or have an existing team move here, someone would have to come up with the money to finish it and I'll guarantee you, it wouldn't be the team this place would try to attract. The stadium would have to be built and ready for occupancy in order to lure a team here and additional dollars would have to go into the move to make it financially friendly to that team. That will never happen here. The voters would never allow it.

Not only that but this will never get an expansion team should they lose the cardinals. The league sees how fickle fans are here in this town!

LA will be the next expansion if there is one ever again!

 

[AZ Shocker]

That will never happen here. The voters would never allow it.

I don't know. To get rid of the Cardinals, and get a whole NEW "real" team! There are plenty of NFL fans in this metropolis. Maybe even enough to vote in order to finish a half completed stadium and get a NEW team! People would be jumping for joy, the world would become "celestial", and AZ Shocker would be the first in line to vote!

 

[AZ Shocker]

Not only that but this will never get an expansion team should they lose the cardinals. The league sees how fickle fans are here in this town!

Your kidding right? Trust me, dollars would be made if Phoenix had a NFL team. Lots of dollars! The NFL would love to have a NFL team in Phoenix.

The Cardinals are a very bad example to use for the old "fickle fan" argument for obvious reasons. Phoenix is NOT Chicago or New York, but Phoenix holds its own as far as fan support is concerned!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by AZ Shocker
Your kidding right? Trust me, dollars would be made if Phoenix had a NFL team. Lots of dollars! The NFL would love to have a NFL team in Phoenix.

The Cardinals are a very bad example to use for the old "fickle fan" argument for obvious reasons. Phoenix is NOT Chicago or New York, but Phoenix holds its own as far as fan support is concerned!

No Im not kidding! The NFL will not put a team here if the Cards were to leave(which will never happen now so its a moot point)

LA the largest market in the country and you dont see the NFL in a huge hurry to put a team there. In fact they have stated that they think they have enough teams and that if there is any more expansion it could another 10 years.

Ths Cards are a perfect example. If the D-Backs start losing and continue to lose for a string of years the fans will stop going! They are VERY fickle! Thats what happens when you have such a large non native population but thats the plain truth!

 

[AZ Shocker]

The D-Backs suck this year, and had almost 40,000 last Tuesday night. That's fickle?

The Suns have been bad for quite a while now, but they still fill up AWA. Where's the fickleness there?

If the D-Backs start losing and continue to lose for a string of years the fans will stop going!

Highly unlikely due to the good ownership. Sure they'll be some down years and attendance will "slightly" drop, but no where near the ratio of empty seats we continually see with the Cardianls.

Thats what happens when you have such a large non native population but thats the plain truth!

Very good point! All the more important for professional sports team owner's in Phoenix to go "out of your way" and win over transplanted fans. Beleive me, people who move here and want to make a life for themselves (and family), would like to cheer for their new "home team". Again, the D-Backs have successfully accomplished this is far less time than the Cards..

Colangeo = Foresight / Bidwill = 1940's way of thinking!

 

[Shane]

The Suns may not be perennial contenders but they have still had a good entertaining product. Not a good analogy. I remember going to suns games prior to there recent run of success during the 80s and the place being empty as can be and the locals being just as disgusted at Colangelo! He has changed that stigma over the last 12 or 13 years but before that it was just as bad!

The Diamondbacks are only 1 year removed from the playoffs and 2 years removed from the World Series Championship. Hard to compare so another bad analogy IMO.

Lets see them lose like this year for another 5 years and see the attendance then?

 

[AZ Shocker]

Lets see them lose like this year for another 5 years and see the attendance then?

Hard to imagine the D-Backs not being competive and entertaining for 5 years. Again, the ownership knows what it takes to lure fans. Good product!

The Diamondbacks are only 1 year removed from the playoffs and 2 years removed from the World Series Championship. Hard to compare so another bad analogy IMO.

But that's the point. The D-Backs already have their fans (with plenty more to come)! They'll always be there, just like you and 17,000 others are fans of the Cardinals. You'll (we'll) always be there! Obviously, it's not all about winning. If it was...Why else then, would you be here?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What are you willing to lose?
5 Years

How far are you willing to go?
No farther than I am now. I will not buy anything associated with the Cardinals untill they have a season .500 or better.

Where do your loyalties lie?
My loyalties lie with NFL football. I love Sundays, and I love watching football. The Cardinals are not playing football. They are play some form of organized "grab-@ss". I got about 5 year that I HAVE to be in NJ, and HAVE to do a lot of other things. In five year I think my life will drastically change. In 5 years if there is no improvement I will search for another team. I don't live in Arizona, and I plan to move to Maine. There is no home team for Maine, so I got to pick somebody. About 8 years ago I started to really watch football. I needed a team so I picked the worse team at the time. For 8 years I have watched pure disfunction. I still love the Cardinals but I WILL NOT WASTE MY LIFE ROOTING FOR THIS RABBLE, THIS LOST CAUSE! Not if they always look the way they have for the last two seasons. Why take something that I enjoy soooooooo much in my life and ruin it rooted for an ORGANIZATION that does not even try to field a team.

Is this 2003 the start of a new team? I can take watching a young team go through growing pains. But if it still looks like this in 5 years? PEACE. I AM OUT! I want to enjoy Sunday's sometime in this LIFETIME!
[/B]

You asked I honestly told.

Peace

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Shane H
Not only that but this will never get an expansion team should they lose the cardinals. The league sees how fickle fans are here in this town!

LA will be the next expansion if there is one ever again!

If the definition of a fickle fan is one who:
1) Demands results - Wins
2) Will not put on the rosey colored glasses just because they play in our own backyard
3) Expect 100% effort from Ownership to Waterboy. (that means we do not have the youngest team in the NFL and have 12 million sitting in the bank)


Then, yes, the fans are fickle. Why settle for anything less than excellence? Surely no one would suggest that the Cardinals have been excelling?

 

[jstadvl]

I'd like to get in here

definition of fickle-unpredictably changeable. I became a Cardinal fan when i moeved to AZ. some years ago. Loveable losers eh? Since adopting them I have become a rabid fanatic. If they left, I would continue to be a fan and go to games whenever possible. That includes keeping season tickets if i could. IF AZ. got another team, I would get season ticks to their games, and root for them, but I will always be a Cards fan.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm a card fan and would be if they were in ARizona or in Maine. I was born in St. Louis but grew up in California so the Cards have only truly been my home team for the first 18 months of my life.

That said I think the fans of Arizona deserve the team, the new stadium, and a winner.The end all problem is always bidwill, always has been always will be until he sells the team.

When I suggest it might be time for Mac to move on it's not because I think a different coach would have this team winning superbowls, it's because I'm not convinced Mac is the best coach we can get for this team. He relies too much on enthusiasm and emotion over preparation and when you get right down to it that's a recipe for disaster. Guys who aren't prepared get caught out of position, that leads to mistakes and big plays for the opponent, large deficits, and then the emotions fail and the team gives up. That's why we have so many lopsided losses under Mac.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Shane H
Why find a new team when the cards will have a place in your heart and there will be no other pro team in the state(unless you consider the Rattlers)??? Really makes no sense???

Let me explain...

I grew up an LA Rams fan. I even stuck with them, for a time, when they moved to St. Louis.

My alligence started to change back in '96, when I moved to Arizona. My first game I attended was against the Cowboys. Kevin Bulter hit the winning field goal, the goal posts got torn down and carted down Mill Street like we had won a Super Bowl.

After that I was hooked.

I grew into a Cardinals fan.

You're right, if no new team enters the vacuum left by a departure of the Cardinals, I will remain a Cardinals fan, from a distance. The only difference would be that I wouldn't be able go to games.

But if a new franchise were to come in here, or if I were to move to a different area, then my loyal towards the Cardinals would be in jeopardy.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I was born and raised in Washington state.

Once the Seahawks came to seattle I became a big fan. I still have my #80 (Steve Largent) jersey tucked away somewhere.
Even after I moved to Phoenix in 1981 I was still a big Seahawk fan. I remember me and my brother going to Max's back in those days to watch the games on Sunday's and having to battle all the Steeler fans who always showed up there in force.

Then the Cards came to town. At that point I said, OK I'm going to adopt this team because they are the "home" team now.
It wasn't easy.
I soon became a Bidwill basher.
Buddy ball broke my heart.
But as the years have passed I have found that Bidwill isn't the terrible ogre that so many paint him to be.
Yes, he has been a little misguided at times, especially in his public relations, but he has proven to me over the years to have his heart in the right place.
I have found over the years that most of those who so contnually bash him usually turn out to be people who haven't really take much time to actually learn the facts of what they are talking about....granted he hasn't always been the poster boy for a model franchise, but he has been willing to learn and change.
Now more than ever, I see the team going in the right direction....no overnight miracles, but generally headed the right direction.
I spent 20 years in Phoenix and loved every minute of it. Even now that I've had to move away for family reasons, my heart will still always reside in Arizona. Now that I live basically in Seahawk country again, I find no desire to go back to being a Seahawk fan. My brother has remained one all these years, and him and I now enjoy the friendly banter between us....his Seahawks vs my Cards. He's rubbing my nose in it right now....but last year we both went to the opening game of the new stadium in Seattle and it was a great day walking out of the stadium that day.

I will remain a Card fan regardless of their win/loss record. Just as I now feel that Arizona will always be part of me, even though I had to move away....so will the Cards be "My team".

A few immature schoolboys who haven't learned loyalty to much of anything and show little respect for themselves or anyone else will never intimidate me away from being a fan of this team.

Will I approve of everylittle move they make along the way?
No.
But I will stay loyal and dream of the day I can come back to Phoenix and watch them play in the Conference championship....
just prior to winning the Super Bowl.