MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Baseball and other non-revenue generating sports should not be included in any smack talk. That includes women's basketball, softball, swimming, rugby, or whatever.
When was the Last Time ASU Made the NCAA Tourney?
- Thread starter Gee!
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OP
OP
I never include softball or womens basketball in smack talk.. But the preception that ASU outright owns UofA in baseball is just wrong..
Now, lets get this topic back on track Mao..
I think this is where you are wrong. I remember a post you once had something to the effect of if Kevin O'Neal doesn't do well and UA starts declining that the boosters "Won't let that happen." You seem to live in a fantasy world of, since UA was good under Lute, they'll always be good. Nebraska and Notre Dame football both have much longer traditions of success than UA hoops, but look at how they've done recently. Things change, ADs make bad hires, kids decide they don't want to live in South Bend or Lincoln, or maybe someday Tucson. Programs go up and down.
Comparing ASU, a large state institution who does well in a lot of sports, to Vandy, is ridiculous and you know it. ASU v UA isn't like Illinois v Northwestern or Vandy v Tennessee like you'd like to imagine it is. Its much more like Florida v Florida St, at any given time, one school could become the power in any sport.
UA could certainly overtake ASU in football, and ASU could over take UA in hoops. Is ASU likely to beat UA once or even twice this year? Probably not. But to act like "well this is how its been for the past 20 years, so it'll be the exact same for the next 20" is folly and you know it.
Arizona's Finest
Your My Favorite Mistake
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Mao - Let me preface this by saying I turn to you for most UA related news and respect your POV quite a bit. It seems here we have a difference of opinion. Now the fact that you are in Tucson and likely have a pulse on the football team better than my own, in some corners may qualify you as more of an "SME" if you will around Stoops and the program.
However my reasoning is based on logic and really my only reasoning is that I think he should get one more year to really see if the imagined "progress" is real or invented. Especially since the offense looked much improved the last five games (ASU debacle non withstanding) and in theory would get better over the offseason. Basically you are quicker with the trigger than myself and I see starting over with a new coach when the program has done nothing over the last decade to actually warrant bringing in anyone with anymore talent or pedigree then Stoops himself is way to big of an assumption on your part.
So disagree if you like - but my opinion does not make me 100x less able to analyze the situation than anyone else.
Trey
Registered
The word you're looking for, is moot.
And if ASU doesn't own a huge margin over the UA with a +2 differential in baseball national titles, then UA doesn't own a huge margin over ASU with a +1 differential in basketball national titles. Obviously, there's much more to it than just rings. Appearances and success in the NCAA tourney v. appearances and success in the CWS. Quality of the players in the pros. Etc, etc.
Play with the numbers all you want. Either the schools are virtual equals in the two sports, or ASU has a huge margin in baseball and UA has a huge margin in basketball.
I'll let you choose which it is...
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
First off, I don't live in Tucson but I do work down there a couple days a week and that keeps me somewhat informed as some clients have good ties to the program. Second, I'm not that quick with the trigger. That's swd on the Cardinals board who wants Whisenhunt fired after 12 games.
I'll address the "progress" point first. Improving from horrid to bad is an improvement I agree. But taking four years to make that jump is flat out pathetic. Four years later with his own players and we can't go to a bowl game in a down year for the conference? That's unforgiveable.
Next point, the improvement of the offense. I'll agree it has improved but considering Stoops' own defense massively regressed then you could have Norm Chow in here and it would not matter. That same D loses nine starters next year too, it will be worse than the current version and the overall results will be roughly the same even when the offense takes another step this year.
I understand Stoops can recruit. Even though he's toast next Fall he's still finding a way to bring in a good recruiting class. But who cares of you build the Titanic is some moron drives it into an iceberg?
Mike Stoops is a disgrace, he embarrasses the university and all it's fans on a weekly basis with his sideline douchebaggery and abhorrent coaching. His players don't respect him and most don't play for him. Pretty much everyone around the athletic department not named Jim Click (his Oklahoma good ole' boy) or Jim Livengood (the guy who fate Stoops is tied to) don't think too highly of him. Arizona is probably one of inly a handful of schools that would accept this crap. That just illustrates how much Arizona Football has fallen over the last decade.
All praise Jim Livengood, the orchestrator of this train wreck.
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Mao, I don't recall if you've posted about this before, but who (or at least what type) do you want to replace Stoops?
Id like to see Stoops gone as I want every Pac 10 program to improve, and I dont think Stoops is very good at all.
Id like to see Stoops gone as I want every Pac 10 program to improve, and I dont think Stoops is very good at all.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Pipe dream - Bronco Mendenhall
Possible, but not guaranteed - Clancy Pendergast
Realistic - Mike Price
Any of them are huge upgrades over the guy currently at the helm and latter two are nothing special.
Possible, but not guaranteed - Clancy Pendergast
Realistic - Mike Price
Any of them are huge upgrades over the guy currently at the helm and latter two are nothing special.
Trey
Registered
New word of the year...
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
That's because you're looking at it simplistically. The reality is Arizona will always have a huge advantage over Arizona State in basketball that will be extremely difficult to overcome just as the same is true in the other direction in football.
Let's put it this way. There's two comparable athletic departments, school A and school B. School A puts basketball as it's first priority in the athletic department. Football has to practice outside in the rain and heat and play in an outdated stadium while the hoops team gets a palace built in their honor just to have practice. They also pay their coaches among the highest salaries in the country, fill up their arena every night, and have all sorts of exposure thanks to a long tradition of excellence and a lengthy list of prominent alumnus. School B makes football or baseball priority #1, builds all sorts of indoor practice facilities for football and upgrades their baseball stadium while their basketball team has to practice at a local high school. Their gym is empty most night even in successful years, getting outdrawn by Spring practice and baseball games. They also have no alumni that can contribute or hype the program.
Tell me, what are the chances that School B with all those disdvantages takes over School A in basketball? What are the chances School A takes over School B in football?
I'll tell you the answer - very, very slim.
Well I guess the point I was trying to make is, you seem to be assuming they'll always continue on that track. With Lisa Love at the helm, it really seems like she's trying to raise the level of all sports at ASU. Wells Fargo Arena has got some major renovations coming down the pipeline, and ASU is building a new practice facility for the teams as well.
Im sure Lute didn't build UA over night, and neither will Sendek (or whomever) do that at ASU. Im perfectly willing to accept a slow build with ASU hoops, and keep Sendek for a good long while. I assume eventually something like 5 straight years of NCAA Tourney births will not be fulfilling enough, but as of now, I'd love that.
Im sure Lute didn't build UA over night, and neither will Sendek (or whomever) do that at ASU. Im perfectly willing to accept a slow build with ASU hoops, and keep Sendek for a good long while. I assume eventually something like 5 straight years of NCAA Tourney births will not be fulfilling enough, but as of now, I'd love that.
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