What you see is what you get

Catfish

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Yesterday, in response to a thread that asked who would be the player/players that surprised me in the game today, I said that I would be surprised if anybody surprised me. I felt that Whiz had lost this team, and that they would quit on him. I WAS WRONG !!!!!

Surprisingly, this team has not quit on Whiz, (though I can't imagine why they haven't quit). I WAS SURPRISED, that the players gave great effort, albiet for nothing, because the coaching was so putrid that there was absolutely no way they could win. For all the Pittsburgh West infusion into this team, (both players and coaches), this was the poorest effort to put our best players in the best position to succeed that I have seen yet.

Calling for blocking schemes that failed to account entirely for one outside rusher, (multiple times), UNFORGIVABLE. Relying on Adrian Wilson to provide help over the top in passing situations, USELESS, (with the exception of one play where he actually did help over the top and actually sandwiched the deep WR between him and the CB). Trying to run to the right, (with our best run-blocking O-lineman relegated to the bench as punishment), ASSININE, and a total waste of time.

Actually, it was Whizenhunt who quit on his team, when he refused to go for an onside kick with just over 4 minutes left in the game, and his team trailing by two scores.

Unfortunately, this is about as well as this team can play, considering the makeup of the coaching staff. They did give GREAT effort today, in a game that obviously meant something to them. That will surely fade as this season continues on into oblivion. There was one drive where Kolb did not get happy feet, and looked the part of an NFL starting QB who calmly took his team down the field for a TD. I am not yet willing to give up on him, though I seriously doubt that Whiz will EVER get him into position for him to excell.

This team did not quit today, though the coaching staff did. What became abundantly clear, (in a game where very little was unknown about each team by the other), is that this is about what we can expect for the remainder of this year, (or for the remainder of Whiz' tenure as HC of the Redbirds). It was business as usual, (same inept play calling). It was the same failed attempt to attain a different result while using the same flawed scheming, both on offense and defense. It was the same (after the game) presser, with the same lame statements by the HC. Little is going to change with this team, until the GM, and the coaching staff are sent packing, and a REAL football person is brought in to produce a coaching staff and a roster that is capable of winning. Until then, WHAT YOU SEE, IS WHAT YOU GET.
 

LarryStalling

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Catfish, I agree with you. If I were the owner of this team, I would immediately this morning order the locks on Mr. Graves office changed and terminate our working arrangement and immediately proceed to get a GM in place. I want him with his feet solidly on the ground so that he can make the necesarry adjustments to the staff and players when the season is over and not lose any time waffleing around waiting for a new GM to provide leadership. Graves and leadership should never be used in the same sentence in my opinion.
 

az jam

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It starts with a GM that is a football person. Until they get rid of Graves the Cards will continue to be a bottom tier team.
 

Pariah

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It starts with a GM that is a football person. Until they get rid of Graves the Cards will continue to be a bottom tier team.
Graves is a rubber stamp. Nothing more. The problem runs much deeper than him.
 

82CardsGrad

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Posted this in another thread but I think it fits here as well:


"Say what you want about him, and he wasn't much of a QB (though he did win a SB), but, I really respect Trent Dilfer's analysis of this game... I find him to be more spot on than just about any other relevant "expert" analyst.
This morning, he was on The Herd and he was on fire... The convo eventually turned to the 9ers, and Dilfer played his hand. Went on to say that the 9ers will be relevant and will be dominant for the next 10 years. Why? Because of: 1.) Ownership, 2.) The best GM in the game today in Trent Baalke, 3.) Great coaching.

He then went on to point to their drafting and some terrific FA pick-ups... He essentially pointed out EVERYTHING that is so drastically wrong with the Cards.
Ugggggghghhhhhhhhh......
:bang::mad::bang:"
 

Russ Smith

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Posted this in another thread but I think it fits here as well:


"Say what you want about him, and he wasn't much of a QB (though he did win a SB), but, I really respect Trent Dilfer's analysis of this game... I find him to be more spot on than just about any other relevant "expert" analyst.
This morning, he was on The Herd and he was on fire... The convo eventually turned to the 9ers, and Dilfer played his hand. Went on to say that the 9ers will be relevant and will be dominant for the next 10 years. Why? Because of: 1.) Ownership, 2.) The best GM in the game today in Trent Baalke, 3.) Great coaching.

He then went on to point to their drafting and some terrific FA pick-ups... He essentially pointed out EVERYTHING that is so drastically wrong with the Cards.
Ugggggghghhhhhhhhh......
:bang::mad::bang:"


They do look great but here's what a moving target it was. many of the same people now demanding Whiz be fired and Kolb be benched were saying that SF might be intentionally trying to suck this year to get Andrew Luck. That was said several times on this board in the preseason and even the first couple of games.

now they're geniuses. It's amazing what winning vs losing does to the perception of fans.
 

kerouac9

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I agree that Whis hasn't lost this team. Part of it is that he's paid huge sums of money to all of the team captains in last three years. Another part is that he's drafted pretty much the rest of them.

If Whis is fired, it's going to be because of poor personnel decisions. Whis does not rely on whatever leadership ability that he presents in the lockerroom or on the sideline for success.
 

82CardsGrad

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They do look great but here's what a moving target it was. many of the same people now demanding Whiz be fired and Kolb be benched were saying that SF might be intentionally trying to suck this year to get Andrew Luck. That was said several times on this board in the preseason and even the first couple of games.

now they're geniuses. It's amazing what winning vs losing does to the perception of fans.


I referenced Dilfer and I don't recall him ever saying such negative comments about the 9ers. Therefore, I place a great deal of confidence in his views. And the facts speak for themselves... take a look at how many draftees are starting on the 9ers today. Heck, Aldon Smith is now rated the #1 most productive DE in the game (on a per snap basis)!!! Willis might now be the 2nd best LB on the team as Bowman has been amazing!

As for the Cards and the great job Graves and Whiz have done... well, we've got Doucet and Roberts seeing solid minutes at WR! We've got Levi Brown... AJ Jefferson. Rashad Johnson. Mr. Glass (uh, Beanie)....

Good lord... if not for Washington and LSH, Graves and Whiz just might have entirely whiffed altogether!!
Oh, and as for FA's... we've got Joey Porter and Clark Haggans! Richard Marshall... Stewart Bradley... Todd Heap who can't stay healthy... I guess we can feel good about Jeff King. Yes! :bang:
 

john h

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Yesterday, in response to a thread that asked who would be the player/players that surprised me in the game today, I said that I would be surprised if anybody surprised me. I felt that Whiz had lost this team, and that they would quit on him. I WAS WRONG !!!!!

Surprisingly, this team has not quit on Whiz, (though I can't imagine why they haven't quit). I WAS SURPRISED, that the players gave great effort, albiet for nothing, because the coaching was so putrid that there was absolutely no way they could win. For all the Pittsburgh West infusion into this team, (both players and coaches), this was the poorest effort to put our best players in the best position to succeed that I have seen yet.

Calling for blocking schemes that failed to account entirely for one outside rusher, (multiple times), UNFORGIVABLE. Relying on Adrian Wilson to provide help over the top in passing situations, USELESS, (with the exception of one play where he actually did help over the top and actually sandwiched the deep WR between him and the CB). Trying to run to the right, (with our best run-blocking O-lineman relegated to the bench as punishment), ASSININE, and a total waste of time.

Actually, it was Whizenhunt who quit on his team, when he refused to go for an onside kick with just over 4 minutes left in the game, and his team trailing by two scores.

Unfortunately, this is about as well as this team can play, considering the makeup of the coaching staff. They did give GREAT effort today, in a game that obviously meant something to them. That will surely fade as this season continues on into oblivion. There was one drive where Kolb did not get happy feet, and looked the part of an NFL starting QB who calmly took his team down the field for a TD. I am not yet willing to give up on him, though I seriously doubt that Whiz will EVER get him into position for him to excell.

This team did not quit today, though the coaching staff did. What became abundantly clear, (in a game where very little was unknown about each team by the other), is that this is about what we can expect for the remainder of this year, (or for the remainder of Whiz' tenure as HC of the Redbirds). It was business as usual, (same inept play calling). It was the same failed attempt to attain a different result while using the same flawed scheming, both on offense and defense. It was the same (after the game) presser, with the same lame statements by the HC. Little is going to change with this team, until the GM, and the coaching staff are sent packing, and a REAL football person is brought in to produce a coaching staff and a roster that is capable of winning. Until then, WHAT YOU SEE, IS WHAT YOU GET.

If the team had not quit on whiz they sure did after he failed to call an onside kick so the Steelers could run out the game. I am sure there was a lot of locker room talk about that dumb a-- call. What was going through his mind? If anything. I cannot imagine the team supporting Whiz anymore. You can almost see the disbelief in the players faces on some of his calls. Fitz looked almost stunned when he sat on the bench as the Steelers ran out the clock. Maybe we should look to some other teams for Coaches and Assistants in the future. How do the regular good teams always end up with good QB's. At the good teams they should be drafting last and go through what we down at the bottom suffer. If fate plays out Luck will replace Manning and the Colts will continue as dominators. If they do not get Luck you can be sure they will have someone ready to step up or be in a position to trade for Luck. We on the other hand having paid a fortune for Kolb will keep him as our QB of the future as we have so much money and people invested in him.

As I often do I ask the question does Graves make the personnel calls or is he depending on Whiz and his coaches? Graves is not a real football evaluatior so it would only make sense that he get advice from the guys who have football experience. Of course we are the Cards and what we do has little to do with the reality of football. Graves may very well make all the calls. If so then the owners are the real culprits for letting such an incompetent have this responsibility. A real leader would step up and take responsibility publicly. Harry Truman had a sign on his desk "The Buck Stop Here". Where does the buck stop with the Cards? Real men and women do step up. Also rans hide behind "no comment" or some other such lame excuses.
 
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Buckybird

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They do look great but here's what a moving target it was. many of the same people now demanding Whiz be fired and Kolb be benched were saying that SF might be intentionally trying to suck this year to get Andrew Luck. That was said several times on this board in the preseason and even the first couple of games.

now they're geniuses. It's amazing what winning vs losing does to the perception of fans.

Yep

If Kolb drives the Cards down for the winning points against the Hawks & Skins or the defense doesn't go to sleep for the last 3 mins against NY, all this talk is jibber jabber. But the easiest way out is to blame the HC. Wiz has his faults, but IMO his hand wasn't the biggest in those 3 defeats.
 
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Russ Smith

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I referenced Dilfer and I don't recall him ever saying such negative comments about the 9ers. Therefore, I place a great deal of confidence in his views. And the facts speak for themselves... take a look at how many draftees are starting on the 9ers today. Heck, Aldon Smith is now rated the #1 most productive DE in the game (on a per snap basis)!!! Willis might now be the 2nd best LB on the team as Bowman has been amazing!

As for the Cards and the great job Graves and Whiz have done... well, we've got Doucet and Roberts seeing solid minutes at WR! We've got Levi Brown... AJ Jefferson. Rashad Johnson. Mr. Glass (uh, Beanie)....

Good lord... if not for Washington and LSH, Graves and Whiz just might have entirely whiffed altogether!!
Oh, and as for FA's... we've got Joey Porter and Clark Haggans! Richard Marshall... Stewart Bradley... Todd Heap who can't stay healthy... I guess we can feel good about Jeff King. Yes! :bang:

I meant the people on the board saying it yes Dilfer wasn't one of them.

The bad thing is I think we had an excellent draft this year the problem is Williams got hurt, Peterson wasn't ready to start with such a short camp but had to out of necessity, and people are mad about previous drafts.

Peterson will be a very good NFL player IMHO. Williams if he can stay healthy i can see having a Gore like career, he's really good it's just the big IF. I think Housler will be a really good pass catching NFL TE, hopefully Kolb learns to hit him. I like Carter although he's a bit small, and Acho has shown some things.

But we sure blew some previous drafts and FA was a bust save Jeff King as you mentioned.

I'm in no way defending Graves I've been on the fire him bandwagon for years now. Nice guy, not a GM.
 

Cheesebeef

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It's past that time... WAY past that time.... :bang:

i believe it was time in 2003 when "we have a plan!" and "we built up the belly of the team!"... and we elevated Jerry Sullivan to be our OC (because otherwise he was going to retire) who was going to bring in an "innovative offense" with our feared WR quartet of Jason McAddley, Larry Foster, Q and Bryant Johnson! And it's going to be Jeff Blake throwing them the ball with James Hodgins being a real IMPACT maker at FB!

The writing wasn't even on the wall the second that off-season happened, it was shoved so far up our asses and out of our mouths that we could never rinse the taste of it out.

I'll just say this (and many people here will probably be VERY happy if Graves doesn't get fired for this sole reason). I'm giving the Cardinals an ultimatum. They either get rid of Graves or they get rid of me. It's their choice but i can't continue wasting my time on a team that seemingly WANTS to do the same.
 

Pariah

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then isn't it time to get rid of a rubber stamp and get a real gm?

Sure, but it isn't going to happen.

My point was just that calling for graves' head isn't the answer. If we got a guy with a pair of brass balls that put his foot down and called the bidwills on their bs he wouldn't last the offseason.

My guess is that they wouldn't hire anyone with cojones anyways. It's a bleak outlook, IMO.
 
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