What is the plan?

[devilalum]

My guess: He now knows he's the starting point point guard here, so he can get his big money his last year, and he thinks he can earn a big payday for the future...whereas if the Suns gave any indication he was going to be buried down the depth chart (as he should be), he might have been inclined to turn down the short term money in favor of a long term deal with a better team.

That seems like a sound theory.


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[Evil Ash]

So back to my original point . . . people think that waiting to exercise indicates he wants to stay in Phoenix over getting traded elsewhere.

No, he wants his choice of where to go. He'll be waived and stretched. That means he can decide to go to a contender and still get paid.

He can still be traded but the odds of it happening decreased (well at least in his mind anyways)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So why do you think he waited til the day after the drat to opt in?
Just a random choice?

Honestly I have no idea. But when I go through the mental gymnastics I don’t come to the conclusion it was strategically based on the draft. As always I could be wrong, but I just don’t see it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No, he wants his choice of where to go. He'll be waived and stretched. That means he can decide to go to a contender and still get paid.

He can still be traded but the odds of it happening decreased (well at least in his mind anyways)

Yeah not buying your insight into his mind. Waived and stretched could have happened if he exercised before the draft too.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah not buying your insight into his mind. Waived and stretched could have happened if he exercised before the draft too.

Unless it was predicated on the results of the draft. And information about upcoming Free agency. Not saying it is, but definitely is a possibility. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[SunsTzu]

But he still doesn’t have control. He could still be traded away. He had, and continues to have, ZERO control over where he plays. Timing just meant he couldn’t be traded for draft picks in this draft. Tell me where I’m wrong.

Honestly don't see his decision not to opt in prior to the draft even holding up any trades related to draft picks. First there is close to a 0% chance he doesn't opt in and any agreed upon trade can can be competed once it happens. Secondly if he doesn't opt in and the Suns made a trade using him as salary filler they would have opened up enough space to absorb that money into the cap without him needing to be included. The worst case scenario would be the Suns moving assets to dump him and then having him not opt in, which means they would have given assets for nothing in return but the end result of having him off the books would be the same.

The only trades that couldn't have been completed are by teams that really value him as a player at a $20mil salary and were needing to include 2019 picks to acquire him. This seems highly unlikely.

 

[1Sun]

Unless it was predicated on the results of the draft. And information about upcoming Free agency. Not saying it is, but definitely is a possibility. Nothing else makes sense.

Which is where my theory comes in. We did not get a starting point guard on draft night, and he knows we're not getting one in free agency, either.

 

[Mainstreet]

Multiple people in local media are saying he will never see another minute on the floor for the suns. They want him gone.

I suspect that Jackson has less value than Warren, perhaps a negative value, and it took #32 to move him.

Instead of attaching another asset, I'm guessing the Suns are hoping to include Jackson in another trade if the local media is correct.

I do not want the Suns including a first round pick to move Jackson unless they get something substantial in return.

 

[Covert Rain]

I suspect that Jackson has less value than Warren, perhaps a negative value, and it took #32 to move him.

Instead of attaching another asset, I'm guessing the Suns are hoping to include Jackson in another trade if the local media is correct.

I do not want the Suns including a first round pick to move Jackson unless they get something substantial in return.

Man I don't know. I mean the entire league at this point sees a franchise in turmoil that they can rake over the coals. If the Suns move Jackson it's to clear cap space to get a guard right? Not sure they are in the driver's seat here. I could be wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

Man I don't know. I mean the entire league at this points sees a franchise in turmoil that they can rake over the coals. If the Suns move Jackson it's to clear cap space to get a guard right? Not sure they are in the driver's seat here. I could be wrong.

There aren't any good options if the Suns want Jackson gone now unless they can move him in a trade maybe for a guard but they are going to have to sweeten the deal. I guess they can waive and stretch him or play him and hope he increases his value. If the Suns can wait, it will be easier to move him at the trade deadline.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man I don't know. I mean the entire league at this point sees a franchise in turmoil that they can rake over the coals. If the Suns move Jackson it's to clear cap space to get a guard right? Not sure they are in the driver's seat here. I could be wrong.

Oh no, we're definitely not in the driver's seat here just like we weren't with Warren.

I thought and still think we'd have been better off playing the heck out of Warren and then traded him mid-season but that's without really knowing how toxic the chemistry might have been and the same goes with JJ. I'd play him as much as we can (without throwing away games) so that we could move him for value at the deadline but this past month has probably put an end to that dream.

 

[elindholm]

So why do you think he waited til the day after the drat to opt in?
Just a random choice?

It's theoretically possible that he thought he might get traded to a team that loved him so much that they would offer him a generous extension immediately. In that case, he'd forgo his option in order to take the extension instead.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's theoretically possible that he thought he might get traded to a team that loved him so much that they would offer him a generous extension immediately. In that case, he'd forgo his option in order to take the extension instead.

I don’t even know if that’s possible. I don’t think suns could trade him until he exercised the option bc he wouldn’t have been under contract. And once he exercised it and got traded I don’t think he could unwind his exercise.

 

[Yuma]

I don’t even know if that’s possible. I don’t think suns could trade him until he exercised the option bc he wouldn’t have been under contract. And once he exercised it and got traded I don’t think he could unwind his exercise.

That's the way I have seen it explained on SEVERAL NBA websites. I don't remember the names, but some teams are still held up by their players not picking up, or declining their option yet. It's not just the Suns. Until a guy picks up his option, he is really not your asset, but he could be. It's his option if he stays. Until he accepts or declines, you are in a purgatory state with that player.

 

[hcsilla]

Lol. Wrong. But okay believe that.

Those two have very similar numbers with the defensive advantage considerably in covington’s favor but age in saric’s favor. Either one wouldn’t be worth butler individually. It was the combination of both that created value.

I think that Covington has significantly higher value than Saric. He was the main piece and Saric the sweetener.

 

[Proximo]

I think that Covington has significantly higher value than Saric. He was the main piece and Saric the sweetener.

Statistics say they are almost equal in value.

Covington might have a slight advantage due to his defense, but basically they are almost equal, especially if you go back to their time in Philly.

 

[elindholm]

I don’t even know if that’s possible. I don’t think suns could trade him until he exercised the option bc he wouldn’t have been under contract.

Hmm, I thought his 2018-19 contract was still in force, but you're probably right.

 

[Cheesebeef]

is our outlook on the off-season really this grim that the only thing worth talking about are the reasons why Tyler Johnson picked up his option when he did?

 

[Chaplin]

is our outlook on the off-season really this grim that the only thing worth talking about are the reasons why Tyler Johnson picked up his option when he did?

YES

 

[elindholm]

is our outlook on the off-season really this grim that the only thing worth talking about are the reasons why Tyler Johnson picked up his option when he did?

I guess we can indulge the Russell and Holiday fantasies a little longer, but that seems pretty pointless.

I do have some hope for Saric, though.

 

[Proximo]

I suspect that Jackson has less value than Warren, perhaps a negative value, and it took #32 to move him.

Instead of attaching another asset, I'm guessing the Suns are hoping to include Jackson in another trade if the local media is correct.

I do not want the Suns including a first round pick to move Jackson unless they get something substantial in return.

They don’t need to. They just have to wait for a few weeks once free agency is effectively over.

 

[Hoop Head]

I suspect that Jackson has less value than Warren, perhaps a negative value, and it took #32 to move him.

Instead of attaching another asset, I'm guessing the Suns are hoping to include Jackson in another trade if the local media is correct.

I do not want the Suns including a first round pick to move Jackson unless they get something substantial in return.

Attaching an asset to Jackson would be bad, really bad. We should let him warm the bench before doing that. At least there's a chance someone would take a chance on him later if they got an injured player exception or something later in the year. I could see a team like Golden State being interested in adding him for nothing if they end up getting exceptions for KD and Klay. He's a high pick that would cost nothing and he's better than the undrafted free agents they'll add this summer. Jackson has proven he can contribute but I think he needs strong vets to keep him in line, which is something the Suns lack.

If it comes down to it we can stretch him. That's preferable to attaching an asset since we'd only be on the hook for roughly $2.35 million a year for the next 3 years, which isn't too bad and is definitely preferable to losing a future 1st or high 2nd. I don't want to waive and stretch him either but if it's that or attaching a 1st, I think most here would prefer waiving. We'd open up about $4.7 million in cap space that way as well. That's not $7 but again, we won't owe a 1st.

 

[hcsilla]

Statistics say they are almost equal in value.

What stats do say that?

Covington might have a slight advantage due to his defense, but basically they are almost equal, especially if you go back to their time in Philly.

Slight? They are on a different planet as defenders. Covington is the best defender among SF's based on stats, while Saric is one of the worst defenders at PF.

 

[Hoop Head]

What stats do say that?

Their basic stats, have you never looked at them before?

Saric - 12.7 ppg 6.2 rpg 2.1 apg 43% FG
Covington - 12.7 ppg 5.5 rpg 1.6 apg 40% FG

If you want to get into advanced stats then Covington has good defensive stats but their basic stats are very similar, however they actually favor Saric.

 

[hcsilla]

If you want to get into advanced stats .

It is not me who wants to get into advanced stats, everyone else - especially NBA teams - does.

Evaluating players based on their basic stats was out of date even 5 years ago.