What is the plan?

[Proximo]

That's actually 7 players, and what looks to me like a very good, young roster. If you have a chance to sign them, you sign them. Your flexibility lies in these are all valuable assets that other teams would be interested in if you decided to go in another direction. The luxury tax threshold for 2020-2021 is projected to be 143 million and should continue to rise. That's plenty of room for Ayton and Mikal's extensions.

No it isn't - Booker and Russel would be up to 34,000,000 each, ayton would be 28 million, Randle would probably be around 25 million, and Mikal would be at least 10 million, and 6 million for our draft pick

Just that is over 136 million - for 6 players.

 

[Proximo]

I can't believe Gambo & Burns are actually arguing over whether the Suns should want to sign Randle because he is not a perfect fit because of spacing and his rim defense next to Ayton.

That is crazy IMO.

They are like Thadeous Young is a better fit.

Considering where the Suns are at, even if he doesn't fit just getting him as an asset that we can trade if he doesn't fit would be fantastic.

I don't buy the idea Ayton's defense will not improve enough to protect the rim either, it's not like he didn't already improve dramatically.

 

[Sunburn]

No it isn't - Booker and Russel would be up to 34,000,000 each, ayton would be 28 million, Randle would probably be around 25 million, and Mikal would be at least 10 million, and 6 million for our draft pick

Just that is over 136 million - for 6 players.

Ayton and Mikal's extensions won't be until the 2023-24 season. The luxury tax threshold this year is 132 million. As I said, it is projected to be 143 million next year. It will continue to rise, as will the salary cap. There will be enough room. Besides, you don't forego signing young, all-star caliber players because of luxury tax implications four years down the road.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would too, but if we had to let him go I believe there is an even better version of Oubre in the draft, Deandre Hunter.

If there is as good or better version of Oubre, it will likely take 3-4 seasons to get to his level but I understand your point.

 

[Proximo]

Ayton and Mikal's extensions won't be until the 2023-24 season. The luxury tax threshold this year is 132 million. As I said, it is projected to be 143 million next year. It will continue to rise, as will the salary cap. There will be enough room. Besides, you don't forego signing young, all-star caliber players because of luxury tax implications four years down the road.

Well, it doesn't matter anyway.

The odds of Russell even being available, and us being able to dump all that salary is remote at best.

 

[Sunburn]

If there is as good or better version of Oubre, it will likely take 3-4 seasons to get to his level but I understand your point.

Not necessarily. Hunter is probably the most ready to contribute prospect in this draft, like Bridges was for us last year.

 

[Sunburn]

Well, it doesn't matter anyway.

The odds of Russell even being available, and us being able to dump all that salary is remote at best.

True.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not necessarily. Hunter is probably the most ready to contribute prospect in this draft, like Bridges was for us last year.

Still it takes a player time to get up to speed... even Bridges.

 

[taz02]

How much cap can the suns clear if they trade jj and warren for future pics and use the #6 to unload Johnson.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Good grief, why are we talking about giving up assets to unload a salary? Johnson can be stretched. Trading the #6 pick to move that salary is so short-sighted. Besides, Johnson is a valuable player--more valuable to us than a lot of the players we would be targeting.

 

[1Sun]

I can't believe Gambo & Burns are actually arguing over whether the Suns should want to sign Randle because he is not a perfect fit because of spacing and his rim defense next to Ayton.

That is crazy IMO.

They are like Thadeous Young is a better fit.

Considering where the Suns are at, even if he doesn't fit just getting him as an asset that we can trade if he doesn't fit would be fantastic.

I don't buy the idea Ayton's defense will not improve enough to protect the rim either, it's not like he didn't already improve dramatically.

Young actually is a better fit, but I would be happy with either, as long as we also get a viable NBA point guard.

 

[Proximo]

Young actually is a better fit, but I would be happy with either, as long as we also get a viable NBA point guard.

He's 31.

Randle is 24 and rapidly improving, and statistically superior - and apparently wants to come here. This is a no brainer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's 31.

Randle is 24 and rapidly improving, and statistically superior - and apparently wants to come here. This is a no brainer.

Eh roster construction is important. I like randle and would be happy with the signing. But let’s not be obtuse. He’s not a great match with Ayton. He’ll help shore up the boards, which will help. But unless he continues his arc with 3 point shooting he won’t space well with Ayton and we desperately need spacing. And he’s not a shot blocker. And Ayton isn’t either. Our interior defense will likely always be a weak point with the two of them. Just have to hope everything else they bring to the table substantially outweighs that shortcoming.

 

[taz02]

Good grief, why are we talking about giving up assets to unload a salary? Johnson can be stretched. Trading the #6 pick to move that salary is so short-sighted. Besides, Johnson is a valuable player--more valuable to us than a lot of the players we would be targeting.

The discussion was about signing Randle and Russell.

I was just wondering how much cap we could clear in the slim chance that scenario was an option.

Even if we stretch Johnson he would still count against the cap to some degree and the #6 also has a cap hold.

Not advocating any of this, just curios what could be accomplished with a major salary dump.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton seems to fade away on his scoring and shoot more mod range. Randle tends to pound it in low to the basket. I can see where both guys score from different areas of the floor. I could easily see Randle backing down and drawing a double team to hit Bridges, Booker, or PG for a three, or Ayton for a mid range shot. I haven't really seen a consistent ability by Ayton to back people down, back to the basket. Ayton is more of a face up scorer. Randle could give us that back to the basket guy.

 

[BC867]

I would rather have Randle than Oubre. I think Mikal’s shooting will take a big leap this year...

Collison/Rubio
Booker
Bridges
Randle
Ayton

I still like Warren as a 6th man....

But Warren doesn't.

 

[Yuma]

But Warren doesn't.

The problem is we play Warren as a PF when he is not. We have to get Bridges on the floor for his defense. So we either play Bridges as a two and Booker as a PG and let Warren play SF. Or we play small with Warrren at PF and Bridges at SF. Ideally Warren should start. He should also play SF. Problem is we need to play him, Oubre, Bridges and JJ. We are way too stacked at SF. I am leaving out King, and probably another SF on our team. LOL. To be fair to Warren, we should either start him, or get him somewhete he can start. Warren worked his A$$ off to improve his three shooting. Warren is earning it.

 

[1Sun]

He's 31.

Randle is 24 and rapidly improving, and statistically superior - and apparently wants to come here. This is a no brainer.

I meant in terms of skill set, but I hear you.

 

[BC867]

The problem is we play Warren as a PF when he is not. We have to get Bridges on the floor for his defense. So we either play Bridges as a two and Booker as a PG and let Warren play SF. Or we play small with Warrren at PF and Bridges at SF. Ideally Warren should start. He should also play SF. Problem is we need to play him, Oubre, Bridges and JJ. We are way too stacked at SF. I am leaving out King, and probably another SF on our team. LOL. To be fair to Warren, we should either start him, or get him somewhete he can start. Warren worked his A$$ off to improve his three shooting. Warren is earning it.

Despite improving his 3-point shot, Warren is still a one-dimensional Wing. He can score 20 points to
back up a leading scorer like Booker, but he will not advance us in the standings.

And with Book and Warren as the two starting Wings, that is two adjacent positions without defense.

It forces Booker to be Point Guard and/or Warren to be Power Forward. We see where that got us.

It is not a formula for advancement. For those reasons, Warren does not fit on this team. And
with his quitting last season, his bridges have been burned. Pardon the Bridges pun.

 

[Proximo]

I don’t understand how after last season anyone could still want to keep warren.

He can’t play defense, he can’t pass, he can’t rebound, he doesn’t want to come off the bench, he doesn’t talk to anyone on the team, and he was apparently able to play at the end of the season but refused.

Also he has missed a ton of games to injury throughout his career, and is really just an iso offensive player.

He is a negative influence on the team, period.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t understand how after last season anyone could still want to keep warren.

I want to keep him because his on court value exceeds his trade value by quite a bit.

He can’t play defense, he can’t pass, he can’t rebound, he doesn’t want to come off the bench, he doesn’t talk to anyone on the team, and he was apparently able to play at the end of the season but refused.

He can play defense, it's improved steadily throughout his career and for a short stretch this season he actually played pretty good D. I don't think he commits to it often enough but if he decides to work on it he should be at least an above average defender at either forward spot.

He does not rebound well enough especially for a PF. He seems unwilling to pass, maybe not quite Oubre level but for both players, this needs to improve. And I agree about his interactions with teammates but I don't really know how he's perceived by his peers. I have no problem with how the season ended for him, it made no sense to bring him back once we hit the 3 quarter mark.

Also he has missed a ton of games to injury throughout his career, and is really just an iso offensive player.

His injuries don't worry me from the standpoint of how it will affect him in the future but yeah, he's been almost as bad as Booker. He is an ISO player, sure, but he also gets us extra possessions that often end in scores. A lot of rebounds are just meaningless stats, but his pay off frequently. And while he may be mostly a one trick pony, it's the most important trick in the game. Players that can score with efficiency are hard to come by.

He is a negative influence on the team, period.

Is he? If he is I'd move him. But all I've heard about this are guesses and speculation. Just because a player is disgruntled doesn't mean he is necessarily a locker room problem.

 

[BC867]

Steve, to quote, you don't think that Warren commits to defense often enough and he needs to decide to work on it.
He does not rebound well enough. You say he seems unwilling to pass. You cited his bad interactions with teammates.

You cited his injuries. And said that he is an ISO player. And just because a player is disgruntled doesn't mean he is
necessarily a locker room problem. And he has shown he won't play coming off the bench. That's a problem.

If you received a letter of 'commendation' like that, would you hire him over any of the other candidates? Why?

Warren would be better off getting a fresh start somewhere else and the Suns would be better off with him not tying
up a roster spot. Not at the Small Forward position. And certainly not at the Power Forward position that he was
forced to play last season. The Suns were just as much at fault. But it doesn't justify keeping a "disgruntled" player,
especially on a team as young and impressionable as ours.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, to quote, you don't think that Warren commits to defense often enough and he needs to decide to work on it. He does not rebound well enough. You say he seems unwilling to pass. You cited his bad interactions with teammates.

I think you're misinterpreting some of my comments BC. In response to the claim that he can't defend, I pointed out that he has in fact defended fairly well at times, he just doesn't do it often enough (on a really bad team, who does?). Yes, he doesn't rebound well enough and that is a concern. He isn't a willing passer but given that he's an efficient scorer, I'm not overly concerned by that. And I didn't say he interacted poorly with his teammates, I was talking about an apparent lack of interaction. If Kawhi Leonard was on this team I'd be saying the same thing.

You cited his injuries. And said that he is an ISO player. And just because a player is disgruntled doesn't mean he is necessarily a locker room problem. And he has shown he won't play coming off the bench. That's a problem.

Yes, he's had some unexplained injury absences and again, that's a concern. He is primarily an ISO player but that's not a bad word in the basketball world even though some fans act like it is. I don't know for sure about coming off the bench but it's quite possible he does have a problem with it. So did Grant Hill (for different reasons) and again, that's not the end of the world. If you were a better player than half the starters would you be content with coming off the bench?

If you received a letter of 'commendation' like that, would you hire him over any of the other candidates? Why?

If he wasn't already on my team I probably would not pursue him. But I think the complaints about him pale in comparison to what he can do. You and others write him off as a limited player with just one skill buts that's like dismissing a sniper for only being good at hitting his target. The game is about putting the ball in the basket and he is pretty good at that.

Warren would be better off getting a fresh start somewhere else and the Suns would be better off with him not tying up a roster spot. Not at the Small Forward position. And certainly not at the Power Forward position that he was forced to play last season. The Suns were just as much at fault. But it doesn't justify keeping a "disgruntled" player, especially on a team as young and impressionable as ours.

We have 15 roster spots in a game where rarely more than 9 players matter, the last thing I'd worry about is saving a roster spot. And with his absences and our horrible record he is likely to be overlooked or at least undervalued in trade conversations. If he's a locker room problem, get rid of him. And if we have a good offer for him, fine, make the deal. I'm just against giving away a player who clearly has been no worse than our 2nd best player.

 

[Joe Mama]

Am I only one who is less then enthusiastic about paying Julius Randle a bunch of money? I admit I did not see much this year, but my memory of him is as a average at best defender. Seems like with Booker and Ayton we cannot afford to put another mediocre defender with them in the starting lineup. Has he shown a lot of improvement?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Am I only one who is less then enthusiastic about paying Julius Randle a bunch of money? I admit I did not see much this year, but my memory of him is as a average at best defender. Seems like with Booker and Ayton we cannot afford to put another mediocre defender with them in the starting lineup. Has he shown a lot of improvement?

I probably like Randle more than you do and I would say he's improved steadily but no, he isn't going to win any defensive awards. Unfortunately I think we're at a point where we might have to settle for less than ideal solutions to solve our guard and forward problems. If we can get Randle that's a pretty big step forward IMO considering what we put on the floor at the PF position last season.