What’s up with PR?

[QuebecCard]

Calling someone's views psuedo-facist is name calling and breaks the rules of the forum. If we can't talk civil to each other in a discussion thread like this, it won't be done if P&R re-opens. Simple as that.

For the record, I don't agree with virtually anything Johnny says.

It's an apt description supported by nearly countless posts.

If he avoided stooping into this objective description, a problem would be solved.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Calling him a scapegoat makes me gag. I've never seen more obvious (and permitted) trolling in my life and he should have been banned permanently years ago or forced to follow the rules. He is not a scapegoat, he's one of several problem posters (on each side) but the ONLY one that often chooses to not interact in good faith. I love P&R even when I despise what I see, I think it's vital that it return but it's equally vital that it be moderated.

I meant that as everyone likes to point a finger at him since he's the easiest target because of his behavior but never look at their own or anyone else's actions. He's only a part of the overall problem but gets the majority of the vitriol. It wouldn't be shangri la around here if he never came in.

Why is it vital that it returns? This is the same as my value question earlier. We're a sports board for the local teams. What makes a politics board on it vital? This is an honest question. I want to justify it's reopening.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I meant that as everyone likes to point a finger at him since he's the easiest target because of his behavior but never look at their own or anyone else's actions. He's only a part of the overall problem but gets the majority of the vitriol. It wouldn't be shangri la around here if he never came in.

Why is it vital that it returns? This is the same as my value question earlier. We're a sports board for the local teams. What makes a politics board on it vital? This is an honest question. I want to justify it's reopening.

I agree that there would still be conflict here even if we put an end to trolling on P&R. There was a lot of name calling and personal attacks long before JC showed up. And I'm also aware that much of, probably most of, the personal attacks were started by left leaning posters. I don't think there's a perfect solution nor do I believe it will ever be conflict free, I just think it's worthwhile if you can find moderators that can survive the nonsense.

We've lost some excellent posters/mods due to all the fighting and I don't want to see us lose anyone else but I also think this site will lose a little interest from me and many others if we have to go elsewhere for political news and conversation.

P&R is my primary source anymore for world and US news, so to me it's vital. I no longer watch CNN or Fox or any of the others and I don't participate on any other social media site. I like the fact that left and right leaning "news" makes the rounds here and the conversation that accompanies those reports helps me understand and helps me reach my own conclusions.

 

[jbjarko]

I meant that as everyone likes to point a finger at him since he's the easiest target because of his behavior but never look at their own or anyone else's actions. He's only a part of the overall problem but gets the majority of the vitriol. It wouldn't be shangri la around here if he never came in.

Why is it vital that it returns? This is the same as my value question earlier. We're a sports board for the local teams. What makes a politics board on it vital? This is an honest question. I want to justify it's reopening.

Just my .02, fwiw.

Many of us have flipped ideologies in the past decade or so. In large part I’m not saying it’s directly attributed to the board or the posters, but a portion of it may be, at least for me.

I lurked here prior to my ideological shift and never really participated. My early political roots were developed because of my parents and upbringing. This board was a staple of my transition and learning. It expanded my thoughts and philosophy.

P&R is much more about left v. right. It’s about the individuals that post here and make it a community. It is an absolute fountain of information and opinions. Some good. Some bad. But the folks that post here regularly are passionate about politics because it affects our lives more intimately than even sport ball.

It’s easy for any one of us to be a keyboard warrior. We may not all agree, any or all the time. But that’s okay and that is important.

All of us have to do a better job of not being absolute in our attacks and our classification of others. We all have to do a better job of not being ********.

Sure we could all go to X, Reddit etc for our political news but why when this place is a one stop shop with people we consider family and friends.

For me, it would suck to lose P&R. I’d love a more robust block feature, but the people that post here matter to me. Their opinions matter. Even when I disagree.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I agree that there would still be conflict here even if we put an end to trolling on P&R. There was a lot of name calling and personal attacks long before JC showed up. And I'm also aware that much of, probably most of, the personal attacks were started by left leaning posters. I don't think there's a perfect solution nor do I believe it will ever be conflict free, I just think it's worthwhile if you can find moderators that can survive the nonsense.

We've lost some excellent posters/mods due to all the fighting and I don't want to see us lose anyone else but I also think this site will lose a little interest from me and many others if we have to go elsewhere for political news and conversation.

P&R is my primary source anymore for world and US news, so to me it's vital. I no longer watch CNN or Fox or any of the others and I don't participate on any other social media site. I like the fact that left and right leaning "news" makes the rounds here and the conversation that accompanies those reports helps me understand and helps me reach my own conclusions.

This so far has been one of the only compelling arguments I have heard thus far to re-opening it.

 

[jbjarko]

And if you need a volunteer for a mod, I’ll do it. I’ll shut my mouth and observe and do the job if that would help keep it alive. I can set my bias aside.

 

[Mainstreet]

AzStevenCal already mentioned the news factor. This is what makes the forum worthwhile.

I've tuned out on television news and starting to tune out on major internet news sites because the content is so toxic. However, that is the world we live in today.

If the P&R forum reopens, I think the same problems will occur here because people will be people. It will need to be moderated.

IMO, there should be a clear-cut set of rules, and they should apply to every forum. They need to be consistently applied.

Unless the violations are blatant, start with verbal warnings and progress from there, except for repeat offenders or blatant violations. IMO, the swiftness of the intervention is usually more important than the severity.

Let me add this. If you treat people with respect, they will usually give respect in return. I think this applies to most except a small minority.

If one uses inflammatory words and/or insults, the whole discussion process breaks down.

 

[Covert Rain]

My point was the hypocrisy of continuously calling out Johnny without seeing the darkness within Jon. And it is an absolute black hole of dark energy.

Make all the excuses you want about his justifications because of his sexuality at your own risk. I tend to look at him as the worst possible role-model for that community and an embarrassment to the moderator badge.



Dead serious..... You may think he's an a-hole..... but if you think Cakes doesn't believe every word he is saying then you need more time in the jungles of SE Asia. Because I assure you...... He 100% does.

We have a ton of crop-dusting posters in that forum.

Great example of whataboutism. You have already fallen on def ears if you have to bring up someone to defend or deflect for someone else. I personally don't give a damn what someone believes. That's a piss poor excuse to troll, berate and constantly harass other posters. Basically what you are saying is someone believes in being a horses butt. Great. Changes nothing.

 

[Covert Rain]

I meant that as everyone likes to point a finger at him since he's the easiest target because of his behavior but never look at their own or anyone else's actions. He's only a part of the overall problem but gets the majority of the vitriol. It wouldn't be shangri la around here if he never came in.

Why is it vital that it returns? This is the same as my value question earlier. We're a sports board for the local teams. What makes a politics board on it vital? This is an honest question. I want to justify it's reopening.

In terms of the boards value? I used to be a hardcore card carrying Republican. Listening to diverse views, hearing the other side of the coin and seeing how my old party continues to slide into madness was partially because of the people here. This forum got me out of my Fox News bubble. Hearing the real world impact that extreme Republican views have had on people here made a big impact on me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you know my journey here at ASFN... where I once resembled Johnnycakes and would routinely find myself in personal battles. I certainly wouldn't attribute my political evolution solely to this board as there were a number of other personal life events that, along with the experiences gained through ASFN, all conspired at the perfect time and in the perfect way, to bring me to the point I stand today.
So I totally appreciate how this place can play a role in helping people see "the other side," if of course, people are open and willing to sincerely examine positions in a different light...

In terms of how I am directly impacted, or not, by the political items our society faces and/or that are debated here at ASFN... if I'm being honest, my quick answer would be very few. I mean, I'm no different than everyone else in the sense that the typical, fundamental political footballs that get kicked around each day and certainly, every election cycle, such as: Taxes, Abortion, Guns, Social Security, Healthcare, Immigration, Foreign Affairs, etc...all "impact" me in one way or another. But I guess if I take a more individual/personal view, aside from my faith being constantly slammed, misinterpreted and misunderstood on a regular basis, I can't say much else fits into that category.

I totally appreciate how members like Jon, Sandan and even you and your brother, can feel personally attacked by comments made on this board. And I will not at all attempt to inform you guys as to how you should handle those situations. Just know that in each of these situations, I almost exclusively lean in your collective direction and I despise anyone who uses this board as a means to disrespect who you are or what you represent!

Hope this helps clarify where I'm at...

Oh I didn’t mean to put you on the spot. It was more curiosity. For some of us the personal nature of political impact is obvious. But it had occurred to me some time ago that it might not always be so obvious for every poster.

And to clarify my earlier comment - I am not so worried about personal attacks on here. I think we are all individually harmless. At least as regards one and other. It’s more often the positions and political footballs that on a macro basis can be used us as members of specific identifiable groups that scare me.

Btw, I know I’ve been critical of ALL organized religion. But please know that I do respect your faith. I may not understand it, but I do respect it. Particularly when I see how you follow it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I used to be quite more engaged in P&R until it became a free-for-all. I never understood why P&R had different rules than the rest of the forum. If everyone acted as civil in P&R, as they are required to everywhere else in the forum, it would be perfectly fine to deal with.

We have lost some amazing people/moderators specifically because of the difficulties of moderating P&R, and that should never happen. I was in favor of shutting it down permanently then, and still am. The only way I would want to see it back is if it kept the same rules as the rest of the board and permabanning comes back for habitual offenders.

I get it. I also think it’s just a completely different beast than the rest of the board. It’s personal in a way that no other board can be. It’s also less uniting as we aren’t all pulling for the same “team.” So I’m okay with there being more leeway. But I was always skeptical of the “free for all” solution. That just seemed ill-conceived to me from the start. Overall I think P&R still brings more value than downside.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sell me on the value of it. I can be convinced. There's been very little of it as of late with the way everyone has been acting in there. It's not just Johnny either even though he's the favorite scapegoat here.

A) it’s a fairly good repository of information on a broad range of topics on both sides of the spectrum.

B) I tend to learn something new maybe once/week. Sometimes something big, sometimes something small. But it’s pretty consistent. Don’t get that intellectual content on many of the other boards.

C) it has made me more self aware of different folks’ challenges and where I can be a better human being in every day life.

D) it gives me insight into the thinking of people who I find potentially dangerous to my, and my family’s, ethnic/religious backgrounds. It helps to better hone my speaking points to counter falsehoods about Jews, and reminds me that we still very much have to be on the lookout for antisemitism.

All of these things make P&R VASTLY more valuable to me than the entertainment value of the suns, cards, dbacks, or movies and streaking boards.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sell me on the value of it. I can be convinced. There's been very little of it as of late with the way everyone has been acting in there. It's not just Johnny either even though he's the favorite scapegoat here.

Btw, I question the use of “scapegoat” in regards to cakes. He’s earned every iota of scrutiny yet receives. If you can identify 20 posts of his over the last 5 years that contain (a) substantive conversation, (b) a lack of sarcasm, snark, or much in the way of responsive conversation, or (c) an absence of ill intent I’d be absolutely shocked. I was originally going to say “5 posts” but then I realized the massive volume of threads over a five year span and realized that yeah, it’s possible to average 4 such posts in an entire year.

There are other posters on P&R who I believe make disingenuous arguments, but no one approaches the brazen empty callousness of cakes time here. Those others have substance to their posts. There’s a basis for discourse. But not cakes. I’m sorry if that sounds overly harsh, but it is our unfortunate reality.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I give you..... A moderator on this site.

My guess.... Zero of you have him on ignore. And zero gag when he posts his trolling bile.

I think I’ve been pretty transparent with my opinions on these types of posts being unnecessary on this site. But where your comparison falls flat is that I can probably identify a fair volume of posts from that poster, that don’t fall into that category and provide some substantive conversation. That’s just not the case with cakes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I meant that as everyone likes to point a finger at him since he's the easiest target because of his behavior but never look at their own or anyone else's actions. He's only a part of the overall problem but gets the majority of the vitriol. It wouldn't be shangri la around here if he never came in.

Why is it vital that it returns? This is the same as my value question earlier. We're a sports board for the local teams. What makes a politics board on it vital? This is an honest question. I want to justify it's reopening.

I mean if you want to talk to why it’s vital to me? I just gave you four reasons.

If you want to talk to why it’s vital to ASFN, well I can tell you it would greatly decrease my traffic. And ASFN absolutely HINGES on the balance I bring to all boards. But seriously I wouldn’t be around as much.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I mean if you want to talk to why it’s vital to me? I just gave you four reasons.

If you want to talk to why it’s vital to ASFN, well I can tell you it would greatly decrease my traffic. And ASFN absolutely HINGES on the balance I bring to all boards. But seriously I wouldn’t be around as much.

Ditto

 

[SECTION 11]

For what it’s worth, this has probably been the best thread of P&R.
I’m guilty of crop dusting, but I do that across all the forums on asfn. I used to put more thought, effort, and research into posts, but I just can’t devote that amount of time to it any more.
Viva la Oxford Comma.

 

[elindholm]

All of these things make P&R VASTLY more valuable to me than the entertainment value of the suns, cards, dbacks, or movies and streaking boards.

Wait, there's a streaking board? Can we post videos?

 

[UncleChris]

Please don't use the laugh emoji. There's nothing punny about it.

Pun and done?

 

[Rivercard]

Sell me on the value of it.

Despite the bickering and trolls, P&R is a rather tight-knit community and I look forward to visiting every day. I enjoy the interactions with many here who I call the best friends I've never met. I learn something most every time I visit. If P&R goes away it will be missed.

 

[Rivercard]

I mean if you want to talk to why it’s vital to me? I just gave you four reasons.

If you want to talk to why it’s vital to ASFN, well I can tell you it would greatly decrease my traffic. And ASFN absolutely HINGES on the balance I bring to all boards. But seriously I wouldn’t be around as much.

Yep. I'd probably lurk a bit to get Cards news for a while then mostly disappear all together.

 

[elindholm]

The fact that you call a vacation in the Philippines as the jungles of SE Asia reveals exactly who you are and why you post what you do on this board.

Maybe be more manly and expose yourself to other parts of the world

Or at least start with our streaking board.

 

[Rivercard]

Sell me on the value of it.

Perhaps the best reason to keep P&R open is that if you shutter it, politics will inevitably seep into and infest other forums. You simply can't ignore that in 2025 politics has become a part of almost everything. P&R acts as a venue to entrap the politics talk in one place and acts as a buffer elsewhere. So for example, when the Late Night thread inevitably gets too political, you can just dump it in P&R and save that Entertainment forum from being infested with politics (even though TV networks have become a political football and it's reasonable to discuss that in regards to American Entertainment today).

 

[jbjarko]

Perhaps the best reason to keep P&R open is that if you shutter it, politics will inevitably seep into and infest other forums. You simply can't ignore that in 2025 politics has become a part of almost everything. P&R acts as a venue to entrap the politics talk in one place and acts as a buffer elsewhere. So for example, when the Late Night thread inevitably gets too political, you can just dump it in P&R and save that Entertainment forum from being infested with politics (even though TV networks have become a political football and it's reasonable to discuss that in regards to American Entertainment today).

I was literally thinking of responding to your latest post there, thinking..."if only we had a place to discuss the reasoning behind this".

 

[Dan H]

Perhaps the best reason to keep P&R open is that if you shutter it, politics will inevitably seep into and infest other forums. You simply can't ignore that in 2025 politics has become a part of almost everything. P&R acts as a venue to entrap the politics talk in one place and acts as a buffer elsewhere. So for example, when the Late Night thread inevitably gets too political, you can just dump it in P&R and save that Entertainment forum from being infested with politics (even though TV networks have become a political football and it's reasonable to discuss that in regards to American Entertainment today).

That's a strange tack to take. There are plenty of Internet forums where political discussion is verboten.

I don't have the interpersonal face-to-face relationships that many of you share, but it occurs to me that there's been one overlooked fact in this discussion.

This isn't my site or your site. We're guests here. Whichever way leadership chooses to go, that's their prerogative, and I shouldn't expect my opinion on the subject to have any weight whatsoever.