Well played Alan Branch

[Cbus cardsfan]

There's not too much anybody could say that could convince me that our defense is better without Dansby and Rolle.

What would you expect Wilson to say? We really miss those guys and can't replace them? All things being equal, I don't understand how the FO can justify the money going to Porter rather than Dansby. By being equal I mean that Dansby was not signing here once FA hit.

 

[Duckjake]

There's not too much anybody could say that could convince me that our defense is better without Dansby and Rolle.

What would you expect Wilson to say? We really miss those guys and can't replace them? All things being equal, I don't understand how the FO can justify the money going to Porter rather than Dansby. By being equal I mean that Dansby was not signing here once FA hit.

Actually I think 3 of the defenses, Cards, Dolphins, and Giants will be better as a result of the deals. Because I think all four guys will benefit from the change of scenery. And they're all talented players.

I don't know enough about Rhodes replacement on the Jets to comment on them.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Daryl Washington is going to make all you Dansby fan boys look pretty silly by the end of the year being that he is quiet, 10X faster, hard working, and getting paid 1/12 of the HIGHEST PAID LINEBACKER IN THE LEAGUE.

I think Cardinals fans are just conditioned to bitch about players leaving and starring elsewhere as thats what has happened so much in the past.

Maybe I am in the minority but what I have seen so far, I am MUCH happier to have Washington then Dansby. And I think the coaches are too.

But you guys keep crying over his departure.

And Duck you completely missed the context of my point on Dansby getting paid. There was a reason they didn't want to lock him up long term. They were afraid he would go back to Karlos 2006. Getting paid alot of money on one year deals is NOT the same risk as locking a guy up for 6 years.

But again think what you want. I am not saying Dansby doesn't improve the Phins and isn't a pretty good player. But if you ask me, he's not a core player that you make the highest paid ILB in the league. It comes down to intangibles AND production for me. Color me not impressed with either with Los.

But what do I know? I have the entire organization pretty much agreeing with me on Dansby and their actions proving as much. You got Cbus, Cheese, and K9.

Looks like im the one that has no clue

 

[Arizona's Finest]

What would you expect Wilson to say? We really miss those guys and can't replace them? All things being equal, I don't understand how the FO can justify the money going to Porter rather than Dansby. By being equal I mean that Dansby was not signing here once FA hit.

Echh did you even read the thread?

He said " We have guys who are more accountable and less worried about stats(sic)"

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/interesting-aw-comments-on-bick-mj-157470.html

and do you understand the structure of the two deals given to both Porter and Dansby? LOL they are apples and oranges.

As to your last point, I don't disagree that he wanted to leave. But in the end all that matters is the money. Its not a conicidence that guys like Dockett, Fitz, and Wilson who produce AND do things the right way never saw the light of the open market and Dansby did.

 

[Cardiac]

But what do I know? I have the entire organization pretty much agreeing with me on Dansby and their actions proving as much. You got Cbus, Cheese, and K9.

Looks like im the one that has no clue

First of all congrats on the wedding.

I'm not so sure the entire org agrees with you since they came very close to matching the offer he accepted with the Fins.

Same thing with Rolle. It wasn't one of my 5 happiest moments as a Cards fan when he left but I wasn't all Cbus about it either. The Cards again almost matched the giants offer so he was respected and wanted by the org.

 

[JeffGollin]

Or Cody Brown. Both [Cody Brown] and Branch are victims of the price the Cards had to pay for Boldin; that no other Cardinal taken 2nd round in an odd numbered year could be great. Since drafting Q in 2003 here are the Cards 2nd round picks in odd numbered years: Arrington, Branch, and Brown. In even numbered years: Dansby, Lutui, Campbell, and Washington.

Kind of reminds me of the old Burns & Schreiber "Faith Healing" bit which went in part like:

"Giant Communist frogs are eating people in Florida. And if you think I'm kidding, when's the last time you got a phone call from Tampa?"

The point being: Sometimes we overthink stuff.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

First of all congrats on the wedding.

I'm not so sure the entire org agrees with you since they came very close to matching the offer he accepted with the Fins.

Same thing with Rolle. It wasn't one of my 5 happiest moments as a Cards fan when he left but I wasn't all Cbus about it either. The Cards again almost matched the giants offer so he was respected and wanted by the org.

IMO that was all talk. The one thing the Cards have shown recently is they will make sure the "core" guys our locked up and even overpay to do it.

I actually think from what I read that they were much more upset to lose Rolle then Dansby.

But its all conjecture. I just know if they thought it was THAT important, they have shown recently they would have gotten it done. I just think Karlos Dansby is SEVERLY overatted on this board. He was important to this teams defense but hes not irreplacable and I think Washington will show that.

 

[Duckjake]

Daryl Washington is going to make all you Dansby fan boys look pretty silly by the end of the year being that he is quiet, 10X faster, hard working, and getting paid 1/12 of the HIGHEST PAID LINEBACKER IN THE LEAGUE.

I think Cardinals fans are just conditioned to bitch about players leaving and starring elsewhere as thats what has happened so much in the past.

Maybe I am in the minority but what I have seen so far, I am MUCH happier to have Washington then Dansby. And I think the coaches are too.

But you guys keep crying over his departure.

And Duck you completely missed the context of my point on Dansby getting paid. There was a reason they didn't want to lock him up long term. They were afraid he would go back to Karlos 2006. Getting paid alot of money on one year deals is NOT the same risk as locking a guy up for 6 years.

But again think what you want. I am not saying Dansby doesn't improve the Phins and isn't a pretty good player. But if you ask me, he's not a core player that you make the highest paid ILB in the league. It comes down to intangibles AND production for me. Color me not impressed with either with Los.

But what do I know? I have the entire organization pretty much agreeing with me on Dansby and their actions proving as much. You got Cbus, Cheese, and K9.

Looks like im the one that has no clue

I just don't agree with the reason you give that the Cards decided not to want to lock up Dansby long term. The intangibles and being a team player. Or your contention that Karlos only played at a high level for the last 4 years because every year since 2005 was a contract year.

Mainly because the Cards went out and picked up two guys who are being criticized by the fans of their former teams for the same things and Dansby played well enough Sunday to be the headliner in the stories about the Dolphins game. AFTER he signed his long term contract.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Washington will be better for the Defense than Dansby.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I just don't agree with the reason you give that the Cards decided not to want to lock up Dansby long term. The intangibles and being a team player. Or your contention that Karlos only played at a high level for the last 4 years because every year since 2005 was a contract year.

Mainly because the Cards went out and picked up two guys who are being criticized by the fans of their former teams for the same things and Dansby played well enough Sunday to be the headliner in the stories about the Dolphins game. AFTER he signed his long term contract.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Washington will be better for the Defense than Dansby.

I would have like to seen the defense with Dansby AND Washington. Now we're talking.

 

[Duckjake]

Kind of reminds me of the old Burns & Schreiber "Faith Healing" bit which went in part like:

"Giant Communist frogs are eating people in Florida. And if you think I'm kidding, when's the last time you got a phone call from Tampa?"

The point being: Sometimes we overthink stuff.

The point being: Sometimes we just like to have a little fun.

 

[kerouac9]

Daryl Washington is going to make all you Dansby fan boys look pretty silly by the end of the year being that he is quiet, 10X faster, hard working, and getting paid 1/12 of the HIGHEST PAID LINEBACKER IN THE LEAGUE.

I think Cardinals fans are just conditioned to bitch about players leaving and starring elsewhere as thats what has happened so much in the past.

Maybe I am in the minority but what I have seen so far, I am MUCH happier to have Washington then Dansby. And I think the coaches are too.

But you guys keep crying over his departure.

And Duck you completely missed the context of my point on Dansby getting paid. There was a reason they didn't want to lock him up long term. They were afraid he would go back to Karlos 2006. Getting paid alot of money on one year deals is NOT the same risk as locking a guy up for 6 years.

But again think what you want. I am not saying Dansby doesn't improve the Phins and isn't a pretty good player. But if you ask me, he's not a core player that you make the highest paid ILB in the league. It comes down to intangibles AND production for me. Color me not impressed with either with Los.

But what do I know? I have the entire organization pretty much agreeing with me on Dansby and their actions proving as much. You got Cbus, Cheese, and K9.

Looks like im the one that has no clue

Who brought Dansby into the thread, AZF? He's not a Cardinal anymore; I don't really want to talk about what happened in February and March. I'm more interested in spending my time talking about this team.

The Cards didn't lock up Dansby because they're not going to pay top money for a linebacker unless he's a Pro Bowl player. I've been told this. I think that Dansby deserved to make the Pro Bowl two years ago, even as an OLB, but the players gave a lifetime achievement award to Derrick Brooks, who wasn't even starting for the Bucs, instead.

The Steelers way is to pay for offensive and defensive lines and the quarterback. That's what the Cards are going to do. I can live with that; I'm not sure why you're hysterical about this. Karlos Dansby is better than Daryl Washington right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bro did you read the AW comments on the Bick and MJ show? Am I really making this stuff up? Would he have just a TAD more insight then you?

And who else on that defense was going to be Captain? Dockett - no? Was there anyone else with the tenure or level of game of Dansby? Don't give me that his teammates voted for him - he got it by default.

ah, so someone provides facts and you provide tea-leaves. good argument here.

Or maybe you just can't take off the Dansby glasses and see what you want to see. Theres a reason with his production and responsibility he didn't get paid here and we let him get to market.

uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the franchise tag pay A LOT of money AND keep someone from hitting the open market. Didn't we do that TWICE with Los? Pretty sure those are the facts, but I guess if you're tea-leaves tell you different, how am I to argue otherwise?

He ain't Fitz - He ain't Wilson - he ain't Dockett.

He's not Fitz but I'd argue he's almost Wilson (if not for being immature his first couple years in the league which I agree with) but he's MOST DEFINITELY NOT Dockett. Karlos NEVER said a bad word about the organization and repeatedly called it an honor to get the tag, as opposed to Dockett who you're pimping who has slammed the organization, held out of mini-camps... and all this even though he actually GOT an extension Dansby never got. Again, just stating facts here.

Its no coincidence that they were never allowed to hit the open market. because they bring production AND leadership.

But whatever. How we ever going to prove this? I just think I read the tea leaves better then you but to each his own....

you read the tea leaves better. Fortunately, I don't have to read the tea leaves. I've got facts to back up my argument.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But you guys keep crying over his departure.

wait... YOU bring him up and then WE get criticized for saying you're wrong, not to mention attacked as a cry babies?

Do you actually read what you yourself writes? Good lord man.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cards didn't lock up Dansby because they're not going to pay top money for a linebacker unless he's a Pro Bowl player. I've been told this. I think that Dansby deserved to make the Pro Bowl two years ago, even as an OLB, but the players gave a lifetime achievement award to Derrick Brooks, who wasn't even starting for the Bucs, instead.

This appears to be right on the money.

If I were the Cards brass I'm looking at the roster and our hybrid 3-4 scheme and seeing this: We don't have enough cash to keep all of our star players. So first we see that WILB has historically been a position that is easiest for a rookie to fill successfully. We also see that, at the time, we have a lot of depth at WR. Meanwhile bad boy 3-4 Defensive ends are not as easy to find as WILBs. Our replacement at SS is not showing much and SS is also not a position easily filled and the guy we have is a pro bowler.

So Dansby and Boldin go and Dockett and Wilson stay.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Who brought Dansby into the thread, AZF? He's not a Cardinal anymore; I don't really want to talk about what happened in February and March. I'm more interested in spending my time talking about this team.

The Cards didn't lock up Dansby because they're not going to pay top money for a linebacker unless he's a Pro Bowl player. I've been told this. I think that Dansby deserved to make the Pro Bowl two years ago, even as an OLB, but the players gave a lifetime achievement award to Derrick Brooks, who wasn't even starting for the Bucs, instead.

The Steelers way is to pay for offensive and defensive lines and the quarterback. That's what the Cards are going to do. I can live with that; I'm not sure why you're hysterical about this. Karlos Dansby is better than Daryl Washington right now.

See now this I agree with. I don't disagree with one thing you said. Especially the bolded.

I still think he is more of a individual player and stats obssessed then you do, but oh well. Your right he's gone. Good response.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And then there is this.....

ah, so someone provides facts and you provide tea-leaves. good argument here.

Ecchh. How about you say "tea leaves" one more time? Call it what you want. Reading between the lines, understanding inference, actions speaking louder then words, whatever. If you take what the head coach and NFL FO's says verbatim you are naive. I love how you act like you never read into anything or draw conclusions from a half story. No no no - Cheese only discusses the black and white. Far be it for him to make an educated guess or think something tht wasn't spelled out for him word - for - word.

uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the franchise tag pay A LOT of money AND keep someone from hitting the open market. Didn't we do that TWICE with Los? Pretty sure those are the facts, but I guess if you're tea-leaves tell you different, how am I to argue otherwise?

Seriously do I have to keep explaining this? Do you not see the level of risk in a ONE YEAR DEAL (no matter how much the money) and locking a guy up for 6 years at 30 million guranteed when you worry about his work ethic and team play.

I mean really because if it doesn't make sense after that, I can point you to a Power Point or a Sock Puppet show to explain further. Jesus.

He's not Fitz but I'd argue he's almost Wilson (if not for being immature his first couple years in the league which I agree with) but he's MOST DEFINITELY NOT Dockett. Karlos NEVER said a bad word about the organization and repeatedly called it an honor to get the tag, as opposed to Dockett who you're pimping who has slammed the organization, held out of mini-camps... and all this even though he actually GOT an extension Dansby never got. Again, just stating facts here.

Hey Cheese. When was Docketts deal redone? A week ago after a offseason of **** and coming to offseason work right? right?

The organization has showed they pay the good players who do things the right way. But I guess Dansby is the one excpetion over the last 5 years

Docketts always been a warrior who played hurt and worked hard. He was just rough around the edges. Just because you didn't hear Dansby speak out against the FO, isnt' it pretty telling he left as soon as possible? And would never be called a "warrior" by any definition of the word.

Dockett wants to be in the Ring of Honor, Dansby wants to be in South Beach - does that REALLY no make sense to you? Or you just being smug because thats your shtick?

you read the tea leaves better. Fortunately, I don't have to read the tea leaves. I've got facts to back up my argument.

facts? LMAO. You cherry pick information that fits your argument facts guy. Maybe on planet cheese you and these facts must make you the king of the empire, but here on earth we are used to your discussion tactics and read right through you. or at least I do.

Oh hey I got something for you

You must be registered for see images

 

[TJ]

How did a conversation about Branch turn into a Dansby diatribe?

For the last two years of his tenure in AZ, he got on the radio airwaves and told people like Gambo and Ash that "I am a franchise player; therefore, I should be paid like a franchise player." The guy was good, not great. Like Rolle, he was a feast or famine type of player, looking for the big plays and sometimes ignoring the fundamentals. We also offered him $24 mil guaranteed a season before he signed w/ Miami for $2mil less. Dansby made it abundantely clear: his motives were to get paid (overpaid, IMO).

Without the knowledge that we had the opportunity to draft a beast like D. Washington, I would have been for re-signing him, but for considerably less than he was asking for. I cant fault a dude for getting his cheddar as you are worth what you make, but if you are saying that we should have signed him for what he was asking, then you're talking crazy talk.

BTW...why are we focusing on the past? Dansby is in Miami. Rolle is in NY.

Moving on!

 

[kerouac9]

How did a conversation about Branch turn into a Dansby diatribe?

For the last two years of his tenure in AZ, he got on the radio airwaves and told people like Gambo and Ash that "I am a franchise player; therefore, I should be paid like a franchise player." The guy was good, not great. Like Rolle, he was a feast or famine type of player, looking for the big plays and sometimes ignoring the fundamentals. We also offered him $24 mil guaranteed a season before he signed w/ Miami for $2mil less. Dansby made it abundantely clear: his motives were to get paid (overpaid, IMO).

Without the knowledge that we had the opportunity to draft a beast like D. Washington, I would have been for re-signing him, but for considerably less than he was asking for. I cant fault a dude for getting his cheddar as you are worth what you make, but if you are saying that we should have signed him for what he was asking, then you're talking crazy talk.

BTW...why are we focusing on the past? Dansby is in Miami. Rolle is in NY.

Moving on!

Shouldn't Daryl Washington prove ANYTHING at this level before we start calling him a beast?

 

[Cheesebeef]

We also offered him $24 mil guaranteed a season before he signed w/ Miami for $2mil less. Dansby made it abundantely clear: his motives were to get paid (overpaid, IMO).

His motive was "abundantly" clear to get paid yet he took 2 million less to go to another team? I sometimes wonder if people even think about the things they write before they write them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Shouldn't Daryl Washington prove ANYTHING at this level before we start calling him a beast?

even coming from a guy who really likes Washington's potential, I think it's INCREDIBLY premature to call him a beast.

 

[Duckjake]

The organization has showed they pay the good players who do things the right way. But I guess Dansby is the one excpetion over the last 5 years

Leonard Davis, Calvin Pace, Antonio Smith, Antrell Rolle, Anquan Boldin. All good players who did things the right way as far as I'm concerned. So Dansby was not the one exception.

I think they look more at who they can replace with rookies or ,hopefully, more contract friendly free agents. Sometimes it works as with Campbell and with Washington and Rhodes so far and sometimes it doesn't with Pace for instance as the Cards are still light on depth at OLB and have used two draft picks and signed Porter to try and fill that spot.

 

[Duckjake]

BTW...why are we focusing on the past? Dansby is in Miami. Rolle is in NY.

I'm not focusing solely on Dansby and Rolle but rather on the reasons the Cardinals brass have for extending some players and not others. That does have ramifications for this year and especially this coming off season.

 

[TJ]

His motive was "abundantly" clear to get paid yet he took 2 million less to go to another team? I sometimes wonder if people even think about the things they write before they write them.

Man you are on a roll here! Remember I said "last season" it was offered to him.

I think you fail to remember that he left it on the table and the best offer that came to him was the one Miami handed him at the beginning of free agency. So in essence, he screwed himself over but his motives were abundantly clear.

And BTW, quit with the "I sometimes wonder if people even think about the things they write before they write them" garbage. The next time you say that, look at your bathroom mirror, because right now, your retorts are nonsensical.

 

[lobo]

I'm not focusing solely on Dansby and Rolle but rather on the reasons the Cardinals brass have for extending some players and not others. That does have ramifications for this year and especially this coming off season.

It's the nature of the game today that you just can't sign everyone and that all front offices are subject to the critics as to why this one or that one was not signed...team has been on the whole been pretty lucky to retain some of the talent...yeah we lost a boldin, but sadly everyone did not fit under the tent.

 

[TJ]

I'm not focusing solely on Dansby and Rolle but rather on the reasons the Cardinals brass have for extending some players and not others. That does have ramifications for this year and especially this coming off season.

Fair enough. I can dig it. It's just gotten to a point where we are bitching about two players who clearly didnt want to be here.

And the funny thing is ASFN posters hardly discuss Boldin anymore. Strange, isnt it?