Welcome Cam Johnson

[Yuma]

"Amazing lengths"? You do realize that outside this board, the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world either met our FA/Draft moves with either a collective shrug or outright mockery.

Dr. Jones has been around here forever, both as a loyal Suns and Cardinals fan. To call him a troll and pretending to be a fan is quite frankly an absolute pathetic and baseless attack. Then again, you're getting pretty good at those after questioning Ouchie's "emotional stability" because he dared question the Suns moves as well.

Great form JC. Keep it up.

My problem with Doctor Jones, is he keeps losing archeologic treasures to nazis!

 

[Yuma]

Ok. Thinking about paying Booker a supermax is making me depressed. I don’t see him ever being worth that. To me the supermax needs to be reserved for mvp candidates and not even all of them.

He has more years on this contract to BECOME a Super Max candidate. Personally, I don't think any guy is worth 40 mil per season. However, if Booker becomes Kobe like he says, to me that would be Super Max eligible. If Booker leads us to a Championship, it will be a lock for him to get a Super Max.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He has more years on this contract to BECOME a Super Max candidate. Personally, I don't think any guy is worth 40 mil per season. However, if Booker becomes Kobe like he says, to me that would be Super Max eligible. If Booker leads us to a Championship, it will be a lock for him to get a Super Max.

I just hate the supermax. I think it is bad for the NBA. I almost think it would be better to have no max than a supermax.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oubre has a much, much higher ceiling IMO that the, now journeyman, PG Rubio. You have to be able to project greatness before it happens. The Warriors did it with Steph and it worked out great for them.

2 years for Oubre was possibly the worst possible outcome IMO. He's getting less than a ton of his peers (something that matters) and he is only locked up during the years we will probably struggle mightily just to be a top 12 team in the west (years that really wont matter). By the end of those 2 years, I expect him become a Max-level or near-max level guy. Which will cost us more over years 3 4 and 5 than if we would have paid him what he probably wanted over a longer period.


Dude..... Oubre is worth 20 mill per season now. And will be near max or at the max in 2 years. That's my personal opinion.


Thanks cheese.

No worries JC. My overall depression with this team is truly rotting my soul. I'm sure it bleeds out to many of my doom and gloom posts.

If Oubre was worth 20 million like you state, a team would've offered him that. Oubre was worth maybe 15 million.


What if Oubre plays similar to how he has the rest of his career so far? 15 mil will be an overpay.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Only suns fans would bitch about finally getting a solid PG. Rubio isn’t the second coming is Nash, but the man is a solid playmaker and PG. It’s a huge upgrade. This team was basically without a true point guard for two years and it showed.

True, but as a franchise I think we have a high bar for PG play historically. I mean we’ve had KJ, Kidd, Marbury (while not a HOFer was certainly a very good PG), and Nash for the majority of most of our lives. If UofA was PGU for awhile the suns were seemingly NBA-PG-Central for a long time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oubre has a much, much higher ceiling IMO that the, now journeyman, PG Rubio. You have to be able to project greatness before it happens. The Warriors did it with Steph and it worked out great for them.

2 years for Oubre was possibly the worst possible outcome IMO. He's getting less than a ton of his peers (something that matters) and he is only locked up during the years we will probably struggle mightily just to be a top 12 team in the west (years that really wont matter). By the end of those 2 years, I expect him become a Max-level or near-max level guy. Which will cost us more over years 3 4 and 5 than if we would have paid him what he probably wanted over a longer period.


Dude..... Oubre is worth 20 mill per season now. And will be near max or at the max in 2 years. That's my personal opinion.


Thanks cheese.

No worries JC. My overall depression with this team is truly rotting my soul. I'm sure it bleeds out to many of my doom and gloom posts.

If he was a $20M guy in today’s market he would’ve gotten it. He didn’t. He isn’t. And personally I doubt he’ll ever be a max guy. His turnover to assist ratio is awful. It’s negative at present for his time in Phoenix. His 3 point shooting is mediocre. If those two items don’t substantially improve he’ll always be exactly what he is right now.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ok. Thinking about paying Booker a supermax is making me depressed. I don’t see him ever being worth that. To me the supermax needs to be reserved for mvp candidates and not even all of them.

Man. You really like Oubre. Why not just take a moment to be glad we have him right now. If it weren’t for signing Ariza last summer we would not have him.

He has more years on this contract to BECOME a Super Max candidate. Personally, I don't think any guy is worth 40 mil per season. However, if Booker becomes Kobe like he says, to me that would be Super Max eligible. If Booker leads us to a Championship, it will be a lock for him to get a Super Max.

I just hate the supermax. I think it is bad for the NBA. I almost think it would be better to have no max than a supermax.

The hard reality is....... If he makes ONE 3rd team all-pro team, he's getting supermaxed. No way the players lose that when they re-negotiate the CBA.

If Oubre was worth 20 million like you state, a team would've offered him that. Oubre was worth maybe 15 million.


What if Oubre plays similar to how he has the rest of his career so far? 15 mil will be an overpay.

If he was a $20M guy in today’s market he would’ve gotten it. He didn’t. He isn’t. And personally I doubt he’ll ever be a max guy. His turnover to assist ratio is awful. It’s negative at present for his time in Phoenix. His 3 point shooting is mediocre. If those two items don’t substantially improve he’ll always be exactly what he is right now.

Also.... Oubre was a restricted FA. I would bet my wallet that an unrestricted Oubre gets Rozier level money or higher. Execs hate tying up massive holds on their cap during free agency just hoping that the original team doesn't accept the offer.

Kelly is sort of an unknown, I get it. I dont think he is Kobe or anything but I do believe the best is yet to come with him, so I am willing to overpay now knowing that years 3, 4, and 5 will be lighter than if I am doing 4 to 5 years with him in 2021. Especially knowing how much Booker and Ayton will be making. And maybe even Mikal at that point.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The hard reality is....... If he makes ONE 3rd team all-pro team, he's getting supermaxed. No way the players lose that when they re-negotiate the CBA.





Also.... Oubre was a restricted FA. I would bet my wallet that an unrestricted Oubre gets Rozier level money or higher. Execs hate tying up massive holds on their cap during free agency just hoping that the original team doesn't accept the offer.

Kelly is sort of an unknown, I get it. I dont think he is Kobe or anything but I do believe the best is yet to come with him, so I am willing to overpay now knowing that years 3, 4, and 5 will be lighter than if I am doing 4 to 5 years with him in 2021. Especially knowing how much Booker and Ayton will be making. And maybe even Mikal at that point.

Why did Rozier get Rozier money? He was restricted too. So were Brogdon, Tyus Jones and many. Oubre never got an off larger than what the Suns offered or he would have signed it.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Sign & Trades. We didn't want to lose Oubre but we also didn't want to pay him. It's a classic cut off your nose situation.

Tyus signed for much smaller money but the Wolves are in cap hell with that abomination of a Wiggins deal.

 

[Phrazbit]

We will have a Max extension for Ayton and a (possible) super max for Booker in the years right after. Do you believe Sarver will be fine doing that? That summer will be the least of our upcoming worries.

Uhh huh... and Rubio’s contract will be over before either of those contracts begin. This is nonsense.

 

[Covert Rain]

Jeebus. I can't wait to see what the new team is able to do. Then we can really asses value of trades, picks and contracts.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Uhh huh... and Rubio’s contract will be over before either of those contracts begin. This is nonsense.

I bet they try to trade Rubio's expiring just to afford Oubre. that's my opinion.

Then, will you be willing to lose TJ, Lose JJ, lose Picks, Lose Rubio, Just to be able to afford Book, DA, & KO? Because that is what's coming.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The hard reality is....... If he makes ONE 3rd team all-pro team, he's getting supermaxed. No way the players lose that when they re-negotiate the CBA.





Also.... Oubre was a restricted FA. I would bet my wallet that an unrestricted Oubre gets Rozier level money or higher. Execs hate tying up massive holds on their cap during free agency just hoping that the original team doesn't accept the offer.

Kelly is sort of an unknown, I get it. I dont think he is Kobe or anything but I do believe the best is yet to come with him, so I am willing to overpay now knowing that years 3, 4, and 5 will be lighter than if I am doing 4 to 5 years with him in 2021. Especially knowing how much Booker and Ayton will be making. And maybe even Mikal at that point.

I'd rather he proves he is worth it.

If he proves hes worth and Booker and Ayton continue to grow, he will get paid.

My hope is that the Suns have a good year and get good luck in the lottery and score that PG of the future. The kid gets to sit behind Rubio and learn for a year. His second season, he takes over for Rubio and then Rubio becomes trade bait. Rubio basically becomes the bridge guy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I bet they try to trade Rubio's expiring just to afford Oubre. that's my opinion.

Then, will you be willing to lose TJ, Lose JJ, lose Picks, Lose Rubio, Just to be able to afford Book, DA, & KO? Because that is what's coming.

Cross that bridge when you get there.

What would be WORSE is that the Suns sign Oubre to a big long contract and then he sucks. That would really hurt their ability to compete. The Suns need to pay proven guys.

 

[95pro]

I bet they try to trade Rubio's expiring just to afford Oubre. that's my opinion.

Then, will you be willing to lose TJ, Lose JJ, lose Picks, Lose Rubio, Just to be able to afford Book, DA, & KO? Because that is what's coming.

Well if they're the next coming of Curry/Klay/Durant, then you pay them. If they're not on that level then we're the wizards of now.

 

[Phrazbit]

I bet they try to trade Rubio's expiring just to afford Oubre. that's my opinion.

Then, will you be willing to lose TJ, Lose JJ, lose Picks, Lose Rubio, Just to be able to afford Book, DA, & KO? Because that is what's coming.

They will be nearly 40 million under the cap WITH Rubio.

This is concern is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think they overpaid Rubio too, but not by a ton.

I also think if we’d given Oubre 90-100 million then that would have been our most ridiculed move.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think they overpaid Rubio too, but not by a ton.

I also think if we’d given Oubre 90-100 million then that would have been our most ridiculed move.

I don't think Rubio was an overpay at all. If you look at PG salaries around the league and even of some of the other guys that signed this off season his salary lines up very well with his ranking at his position. It's even less likely to be an overpay when you consider that it is only a 3 year contract. He is most likely not going to decline during that contract.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think Rubio was an overpay at all. If you look at PG salaries around the league and even of some of the other guys that signed this off season his salary lines up very well with his ranking at his position. It's even less likely to be an overpay when you consider that it is only a 3 year contract. He is most likely not going to decline during that contract.

Well, compared to Rozier, it’s a bargain, his contract is idiocy.

If Rubio’s 3rd year was a team option I’d consider it perfect.

 

[elindholm]

Lowe or somewone had a graphic on ESPN where they polled a ton of front office folks from around the league and asked them to name the craziest thing that happened this summer.

Tied for #1: The Knicks off season and the Rubio contract.

I'd have to see that graphic to believe it. There's nothing wrong with Rubio's contract, and there's simply no plausible way to characterize it as one of the two "craziest things" that happened this summer.

Edit: Okay, I read the mini-article. I think these executives are still punishing the Suns for having drafted Ayton over Doncic. What they're saying to themselves is, "Hey, if the Suns wanted an unathletic white point guard, they should have taken Doncic, like we told them to. Now they have to make up for that mistake by overpaying Rubio."

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'd have to see that graphic to believe it. There's nothing wrong with Rubio's contract, and there's simply no plausible way to characterize it as one of the two "craziest things" that happened this summer.

It was tied for 1st in the poll, but it was also counting the cap space clearing moves against the signing. That was their reasoning for ranking the Rubio signing the way they did.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, Rubio isn’t even the craziest thing we did.

The Warren trade and Cam Johnson at 11 are harder for me to wrap my head around.

And despite all that I think we’re going to be vastly improved, just that we were a bit wasteful in getting there.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'd have to see that graphic to believe it. There's nothing wrong with Rubio's contract, and there's simply no plausible way to characterize it as one of the two "craziest things" that happened this summer.

Edit: Okay, I read the mini-article. I think these executives are still punishing the Suns for having drafted Ayton over Doncic. What they're saying to themselves is, "Hey, if the Suns wanted an unathletic white point guard, they should have taken Doncic, like we told them to. Now they have to make up for that mistake by overpaying Rubio."

Dude.... The Ayton pick was to the Suns as Levi Brown is to the Cards. Doncic is going to be an MVP candidate before Ayton learns how to help-side defend.

Obviously thats my personal opinion.

 

[Phrazbit]

Dude.... The Ayton pick was to the Suns as Levi Brown is to the Cards. Doncic is going to be an MVP candidate before Ayton learns how to help-side defend.

Obviously thats my personal opinion.

Meanwhile Ayton had the best season by a rookie big in years.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Dude.... The Ayton pick was to the Suns as Levi Brown is to the Cards. Doncic is going to be an MVP candidate before Ayton learns how to help-side defend.

Obviously thats my personal opinion.

It's possible, but I'm gonna need more than one year of development for both players to say that we made a mistake. Doncic as good as he was a rookie was a pretty inefficient scorer and while Ayton has work to do defensively he was unbelievably efficient last year and that was without a PG to set him up consistently.