Was the WR core grossly overrated?

Mainstreet

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A number of reasons. Kyler struggles to see over the O line or get the ball velocity required without sailing the pass. They don't trust the O line to protect him long enough. They are overly concerned about him getting sacked and so they are sacrificing variety for speed. And screens and quick throws are a core tenet of Kliff's scheme.

Add them all together and you get 25 x 4.7 yard passes.

This may explain what is happening now but I hope it doesn't define the future of the Cardinals offense because these plays are limiting and not hard to figure out especially if done repeatedly.
 

Shane

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We hate to admit it but Fitz is running on empty
 
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wit3card

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We hate to admit it but Fitz is running on empty
Fitz was open more often then not ... gosh, if youf midget QB can't see over the middle and see where your open WR are than it doesn't matter if it's fitz, Kirk, Isabella, Arnold, Drake (all were multiple times open) you don't get the completition and your WR/TE/RB corps looks way worse than it in reality is. Hopkins looked week the last two week as well, not over 20 mio a year worth...

And D will take the rushing lanes and short passes away and we will struggle as long as Kyler can't find the crossing, slant, go routes in the middle or find the open guy down field...
 

Russ Smith

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You see plenty of them run, you don't see many of them thrown. Watch this 2nd video with the dumb throw to Kirk. He has two players open in the flat both running crossing routes yet delays and goes for the 1% short to Kirk in coverage.

There's a combination of problems. Kliff doesn't call them much (there's too many quick passes outside the numbers) and when they are run Kyler can't/won't find them.

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The 2nd one yeah he should have gone underneath but he also got hit in the face as he threw it. I think he was just trying to get it out where if the WR doesn't get it nobody does. It wound up that the Wr broke up a possible INT so he should have taken the shorter throw. I think he TRIED to be safe there but because of the hit he was throwing off the back foot and couldn't get enough on it and nearly compounded the mistake with a turnover.

He has to check that down AND be safe with it
 

mjb21aztd

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Ugh i know cards had to go Simmons but imagine lamb/metcalf heading into future with hop lot better than Kirk Isabella....
 

scandalous_b

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Fitz was open more often then not ... gosh, if youf midget QB can't see over the middle and see where your open WR are than it doesn't matter if it's fitz, Kirk, Isabella, Arnold, Drake (all were multiple times open) you don't get the completition and your WR/TE/RB corps looks way worse than it in reality is. Hopkins looked week the last two week as well, not over 20 mio a year worth...

And D will take the rushing lanes and short passes away and we will struggle as long as Kyler can't find the crossing, slant, go routes in the middle or find the open guy down field...

Fitz has a PFF grade that ranks 111th out of 119 qualifying WRs.

If he was getting open anywhere near as often as you claim, he would not be graded so poorly.
 

scandalous_b

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You see plenty of them run, you don't see many of them thrown. Watch this 2nd video with the dumb throw to Kirk. He has two players open in the flat both running crossing routes yet delays and goes for the 1% short to Kirk in coverage.

There's a combination of problems. Kliff doesn't call them much (there's too many quick passes outside the numbers) and when they are run Kyler can't/won't find them.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
The 2nd one yeah he should have gone underneath but he also got hit in the face as he threw it. I think he was just trying to get it out where if the WR doesn't get it nobody does. It wound up that the Wr broke up a possible INT so he should have taken the shorter throw. I think he TRIED to be safe there but because of the hit he was throwing off the back foot and couldn't get enough on it and nearly compounded the mistake with a turnover.

He has to check that down AND be safe with it

In all fairness, the pass thrown downfield to Kirk was on 3rd & 8.

The receivers running the crossing routes are both at least 5 yards short of the sticks with defenders in the area waiting for them.

I'm not gonna whine about him taking a shot downfield into single coverage on 3rd & long while under pressure. It's not nearly as dumb of a decision as you guys are making it out to be.
 

scandalous_b

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LOL PFF grade.

I mean it's easy to trash PFF, but I don't think people understand how difficult it is to actually quantify performance & value in football. That doesn't mean you treat everything they say as the holy gospel - but to dismiss it completely is beyond embarrassing.

With that being said - a player's grade can be just as heavily reliant on coaching & scheme as the actual talent level of that player.

In this case, Fitz not being able to get open doesn't mean that he does not have the ability to get open - but rather that the tape says he isn't getting open. So I would bet that a large part of Larry's struggles on paper have more to do with the emphasis of getting others open rather than himself.

Murray got an 80 last week. PFF is trash.

I mean I don't know what to tell you about this take.

I don't think Kyler played an outstanding game, but I think he played pretty damn well given the limitations of the gameplan. Yeah he didn't throw the ball all over the place - but that had more to do with the gameplan than Kyler's performance. Ultimately he went 3/3 scoring TDs in the redzone, and didn't really put the ball in harm's way.

If Andy Isabella doesn't trip over his own feet on that deep ball down the sideline, the narrative on Kyler's game is completely different. That ball was right where it had to be, and Isabella completely butchered it.
 

BritCard

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In all fairness, the pass thrown downfield to Kirk was on 3rd & 8.

The receivers running the crossing routes are both at least 5 yards short of the sticks with defenders in the area waiting for them.

I'm not gonna whine about him taking a shot downfield into single coverage on 3rd & long while under pressure. It's not nearly as dumb of a decision as you guys are making it out to be.

Not sure what you are seeing there. Drake is wide open and in motion against a single DB thats 5 yards off him and heading the wrong direction. Any RB in the league is getting a 1st down there easily.
 

BullheadCardFan

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it’s not about him being a problem. It’s about him not being enough of a solution for the salary he’s bringing in. Can’t get better if we can’t afford better players because we’re overpaying our own.
At this stage of his career he should be here on a team friendly contract, not $11 mil
 

BritCard

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At this stage of his career he should be here on a team friendly contract, not $11 mil

Sure, I agree but if your boss says he's willing to pay you $100k a year do you say "No thats ok boss I'll take 50k because you've been good to me". It's not Fitz's fault Bidwill is a mug. It's not like Fitz is going to move to another team.

On saying all that, Fitz can't catch balls that aren't thrown to him. He is getting open but he's not getting the targets.
 
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