Warriors @ Suns Tuesday game thread 10-25-2022

Covert Rain

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I hesitate to compare Crowder to Landale, but Jock can do more things than Crowder. He can play inside and out and is quite mobile for a man his size. Also, Monty has a lot of confidence in him, which is huge this early in the season.

A potential problem I see playing Landale at power forward is that it weakens the depth at center and creates a potential position conflict between Ayton and Landale. Ayton has always fancied himself to be a power forward, but I think Jock is better equipped to play the position.
I don't know why we would compare. They play different positions. The problem with Landale is he isn't very athletic. We watched what happened when Paul threw up that Oop to him. He couldn't coral it. That's something McGee had no problem doing. The way Landale is playing he is going to minimize the loss of McGee but not totally erase it. He does some things very well.

Crowder is still a better starting PF than Cam Johnson. He has been a bust as a starter so far. It's still really early and he may come around but so far he doesn't appear to be the answer at PF. Landale doesn't make up for the loss of Crowder at all IMO. We didn't just lose McGee. We lost McGee and Crowder.
 

Proximo

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He has quicker feet. He can defend out to the 3point line and he can defend pf's. I have been impressed. He looks like a real player all over the court. Baynes looked like a bruiser with a quirky 3 point shot. Jock looks more like well, I am not sure.
Yes, Jock is way more versatile, which alone makes him more valuable.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I don't know why we would compare. They play different positions. The problem with Landale is he isn't very athletic. We watched what happened when Paul threw up that Oop to him. He couldn't coral it. That's something McGee had no problem doing. The way Landale is playing he is going to minimize the loss of McGee but not totally erase it. He does some things very well.

Cam Johnson is a bust as a starter so far. It's still really early and he may come around but so far he doesn't appear to be the answer at PF.
He brings a better skill set IMO. He moves his feet better on the perimeter and has a good 3 point shot to spread the defense.
 

Proximo

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Crowder is so overvalued as a Sun. Cam is, but he's struggling right now, i expect him to come around. Jock is more versatile indeed.
Crowder is a negative on offense most of the time, and is actually only really helpful in some defensive matchups. His absence hurts because it hurts our depth, but by no means do I think he is a huge loss.

Cam has not played well so far, but I have seen enough of him to know that. He will play better as the year goes on.
 

Covert Rain

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He brings a better skill set IMO. He moves his feet better on the perimeter and has a good 3 point shot to spread the defense.
Then who? McGee? McGee is the better player IMO. McGee can start. Landale isn't a starter. He is good off the bench and gives us some solid minutes. That's not the same thing as starting which is something else entirely. Landale isn't very athletic either which is a factor. Landale doesn't make up for losing both McGee and Crowder. He simply doesn't. Look at our paint play and rebounding so far. If we had a legit PF we would be dominating both night in and night out IMO.
 

Covert Rain

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Well, whether or not Landale should play PF, he again earned his roster spot and his pay. He sure hit the ground running to start the season./
He shouldn't. We need Landale to spell Ayton. Who is going to do that if Ayton goes to the bench or Ayton gets in foul trouble? Biz seems to be out of the rotation for now.
 
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Mainstreet

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Crowder is so overvalued as a Sun. Cam is, but he's struggling right now, i expect him to come around. Jock is more versatile indeed.

Crowder is a solid rotation player. I see his value whether it's starting or coming off the bench. It's all about matchups and depth, so it's not either/or to me. Hopefully he can be replaced soon.
 

Covert Rain

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The point was only to express admiration for what a great contribution Landale made immediately. Much more than his fellow Australian center Luc Longley ever did for the Suns, back in the day. Landale is probably the best reserve big man the Suns have had since Lou Amundson circa 2010.
He has had two bad games and two good games. Let's not get carried away.
 
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Mainstreet

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I don't know why we would compare. They play different positions. The problem with Landale is he isn't very athletic. We watched what happened when Paul threw up that Oop to him. He couldn't coral it. That's something McGee had no problem doing. The way Landale is playing he is going to minimize the loss of McGee but not totally erase it. He does some things very well.

Crowder is still a better starting PF than Cam Johnson. He has been a bust as a starter so far. It's still really early and he may come around but so far he doesn't appear to be the answer at PF. Landale doesn't make up for the loss of Crowder at all IMO. We didn't just lose McGee. We lost McGee and Crowder.

I will say, what Jock lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in basketball IQ and aggressiveness.

Wish Ayton had more of these instincts.
 

JCSunsfan

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I don't know why we would compare. They play different positions. The problem with Landale is he isn't very athletic. We watched what happened when Paul threw up that Oop to him. He couldn't coral it. That's something McGee had no problem doing. The way Landale is playing he is going to minimize the loss of McGee but not totally erase it. He does some things very well.

Crowder is still a better starting PF than Cam Johnson. He has been a bust as a starter so far. It's still really early and he may come around but so far he doesn't appear to be the answer at PF. Landale doesn't make up for the loss of Crowder at all IMO. We didn't just lose McGee. We lost McGee and Crowder.
He's white, so he is not that athletic. Stereotype again. Landale is quite athletic. Not as a leaper, but he has quick feet and quick hands--much quicker than McGee. Very few players are as long as McGee, but athleticism manifests in different ways.
 

95pro

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I don't know why we would compare. They play different positions. The problem with Landale is he isn't very athletic. We watched what happened when Paul threw up that Oop to him. He couldn't coral it. That's something McGee had no problem doing. The way Landale is playing he is going to minimize the loss of McGee but not totally erase it. He does some things very well.

Crowder is still a better starting PF than Cam Johnson. He has been a bust as a starter so far. It's still really early and he may come around but so far he doesn't appear to be the answer at PF. Landale doesn't make up for the loss of Crowder at all IMO. We didn't just lose McGee. We lost McGee and Crowder.

Though the small sample size Cam has average 10/3.6reb, while playing like crap due to injuries/conditioning.
 

95pro

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Then who? McGee? McGee is the better player IMO. McGee can start. Landale isn't a starter. He is good off the bench and gives us some solid minutes. That's not the same thing as starting which is something else entirely. Landale isn't very athletic either which is a factor. Landale doesn't make up for losing both McGee and Crowder. He simply doesn't. Look at our paint play and rebounding so far. If we had a legit PF we would be dominating both night in and night out IMO.

Its not about starting, its about finishing. Do you think if we left McGee out there in the 4th he'd have the same results?
 
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Mainstreet

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On the bottom video, Jock Landale may have bobbled the pass but that's great recovery time. I'm not sure Ayton could have done it.

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Covert Rain

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Its not about starting, its about finishing. Do you think if we left McGee out there in the 4th he'd have the same results?
Last year? 100%. That exact scenario played out several times last year when Ayton was in foul trouble.

Applies to Cam too.
Not the same thing. Cam Johnson is a starter. He is averaging 4 rebounds through the first 4 games which is atrocious. The entire reason the Suns have been looking for another PF is to shore up the inside and not leave it just to Ayton.
 

Covert Rain

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He's white, so he is not that athletic. Stereotype again. Landale is quite athletic. Not as a leaper, but he has quick feet and quick hands--much quicker than McGee. Very few players are as long as McGee, but athleticism manifests in different ways.
Are you accusing me of Stereotyping someone because they are white? Where did I mention his color? You better get the hell out of here with that garbage.
 

95pro

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Last year? 100%. That exact scenario played out several times last year when Ayton was in foul trouble.


Not the same thing. Cam Johnson is a starter. He is averaging 4 rebounds through the first 4 games which is atrocious. The entire reason the Suns have been looking for another PF is to shore up the inside and not leave it just to Ayton.

McGee scored 17 or more for a total of 7 times last year.

Of those 7, 1 game Ayton had 6 fouls, 1 game Ayton had 5 fouls.

In games where Ayton had 5 or more fouls, McGees scores were: 6, 8, 8 , 9, and 11.
 

Chaplin

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Then who? McGee? McGee is the better player IMO. McGee can start. Landale isn't a starter. He is good off the bench and gives us some solid minutes. That's not the same thing as starting which is something else entirely. Landale isn't very athletic either which is a factor. Landale doesn't make up for losing both McGee and Crowder. He simply doesn't. Look at our paint play and rebounding so far. If we had a legit PF we would be dominating both night in and night out IMO.
Just because McGee happens to be starting for the Mavs right now doesn't mean he "can start." McGee's backup is arguably better than him. McGee is good for spot minutes and is a great Locker Room guy, but that's about it. McGee IMO isn't starter quality.

Who is saying Jock makes up for both Crowder AND McGee?
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Then who? McGee? McGee is the better player IMO. McGee can start. Landale isn't a starter. He is good off the bench and gives us some solid minutes. That's not the same thing as starting which is something else entirely. Landale isn't very athletic either which is a factor. Landale doesn't make up for losing both McGee and Crowder. He simply doesn't. Look at our paint play and rebounding so far. If we had a legit PF we would be dominating both night in and night out IMO.
Depends what you want from the player. The main thing that I think McGee was better at that we need from that role is rebounding. Otherwise I take perimeter defense and shooting over what McGee brought. There is a reason McGee largely lost effectiveness in the playoffs and that was because his weaknesses were easy for talented teams to exploit. Remains to be seen, but I think Landale has a chance to give better minutes in the playoffs.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I didn't see it live but was watching highlights and noticed it kind of funny. after the whole Klay and Book exchange and Klay gets run. Booker is shooting FT's and there's Jordan Poole behind him talking to him presumably trying to get under his skin.

Dude they literally just tossed Klay and you think it's smart to try and psyche out Booker shooting the FT's over it?

Poole has lots of talent but he still has some maturing to do, after that whole thing the last thing they needed was him trying to talk crap to Booker.

From the box it looks like Wiseman and Moody played ok, I saw all of Kuminga's minutes it's the same point I made awhile ago, of the 3 he appears to have taken the least step up this year he's shooting too many 3's and has to get better at defense and rebounding. the last chance they had was down 12 he missed a spinning 3 footer, overshot it, then the Suns took off and ran away. Still talented and still only 19 but they need him to take that next step
Yeah poole is incredibly talented. But his maturity seems awful.

And I thought the same about kuminga. Surprised to see he isn’t a full time contributor. Understand he’s young but he really flashed last year. I expected a step forward. Happy it hasn’t come yet.

And while wiseman wasn’t a disaster he still doesn’t maximize his raw physical talents.

If the switch ever turns on for those two and poole matures you’ve got a helluva future.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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He looks to me like he can play pf or c. I am really impressed with his mobility. Seems move as well as Crowder. Am I wrong?
He’s not as quick laterally as crowder. He’s also not nearly a top shelf athlete. That said, you can’t teach size and timing and he seems to have both, along with skill. Can definitely play. He opened my eyes with our ability to go to him the post last night.
 

Covert Rain

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McGee scored 17 or more for a total of 7 times last year.

Of those 7, 1 game Ayton had 6 fouls, 1 game Ayton had 5 fouls.

In games where Ayton had 5 or more fouls, McGees scores were: 6, 8, 8 , 9, and 11.
You are being specific about scoring. McGee wasn't in there to be a scorer. He anchored the bench defensively and bring some toughness. He was a big body that kept teams and the paint honest. I like Jock around the rim which is something I didn't see coming.
 
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