Tristan Thompson?

[Phrazbit]

a viewpoint that I've NEVER shown, have I? So... maybe you might want to rethink that.

Maybe we're having a misunderstanding but as near as I can tell you said exactly that in the final post of the previous page.

as to Thompson being better because of James... I'd love to know how Lebron has effected his rebounding rate... where he continues to dominate and has always showed the ability to do so, both pre and post James coming to the Cavs.

I was more looking at his offensive efficiency. He went from posting pretty bad shooting numbers (for an interior big) to serviceable ones. Either way, even this improved efficiency version of him... I just don't see why this is a guy we should bother to pursue. It would cost a hefty amount in both players and salary to land him and we'd come away still needing a reliable big to put in there. At best he is a marginal upgrade over Markieff and really, only in the context of rebounding. People complain all the time about building for mediocrity and Thompson seems like the exact type of acquisition that would fit that bill.

 

[elindholm]

He went from posting pretty bad shooting numbers (for an interior big) to serviceable ones.

True shooting percentages:

Thompson: .516 in 2012-13, .528 in 2013-14, .580 in 2014-15
MkMorris: .473, .564, .523

Percentage on 2-point FGA only:
Thompson: .490, .478, .547
MkMorris: .426, .512, .494

Thompson was better in 2012-13 and this past season; MkMorris was better in 2013-14 only.

At best he is a marginal upgrade over Markieff and really, only in the context of rebounding.

And defense, and general athleticism, and attitude, and age.

People complain all the time about building for mediocrity and Thompson seems like the exact type of acquisition that would fit that bill.

I'd rather see them commit big money to Thompson, and let one of Bledsoe/Knight go, than have them build around two undersized combo guards.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And defense, and general athleticism, and attitude, and age.



I'd rather see them commit big money to Thompson, and let one of Bledsoe/Knight go, than have them build around two undersized combo guards.

agreed. Thompson/Len can be a VERY good defensive frontcourt. Two guys who actually rebound the ball? It would be unheard of on this team. And you hope Len's offense comes around to pick up the slack on Thompson's end.

Kieff freaking sucks... that's the bottom line. He's an AWFUL rebounder, a bad defender and a solid offensive player with a terrible attitude on and off the court. That does nothing for this team. makes no impact whatsoever.

 

[JS22]

agreed. Thompson/Len can be a VERY good defensive frontcourt. Two guys who actually rebound the ball? It would be unheard of on this team. And you hope Len's offense comes around to pick up the slack on Thompson's end.

Kieff freaking sucks... that's the bottom line. He's an AWFUL rebounder, a bad defender and a solid offensive player with a terrible attitude on and off the court. That does nothing for this team. makes no impact whatsoever.

If Kieff could actually rebound like a PF he'd be fine. Perfect role player on a good team. But I'm ready to move on from the Wonder Twins and their ****ty attitudes. (This is coming from a huge Markieff supporter before last season.)

 

[slinslin]

Before LeBron, he was a young guy averaging 11 ppg and 9 rpg. That's pretty solid for young big man with a lot of room to grow.



Bledsoe and his contract at this point are a NEGATIVE asset at this point, IMO and the Morri and their idiotic/underachieving double trouble attitudes/combo-contract aren't much better.

You are clueless.

And btw calling Thompson a legit 6'10 rebounding big man with supposedly good character, got to be a joke.

Thompson measured 6'7 1/2 without shoes, that is smaller than Markieff measured.

 

[slinslin]

True shooting percentages:

Thompson: .516 in 2012-13, .528 in 2013-14, .580 in 2014-15
MkMorris: .473, .564, .523

Percentage on 2-point FGA only:
Thompson: .490, .478, .547
MkMorris: .426, .512, .494

Thompson was better in 2012-13 and this past season; MkMorris was better in 2013-14 only.

WTF are you trying to tell us here?

Tristan Thomspon is a bad offensive player and the majority of his shots are garbage points against 2nd stringers.

Markieff is the Suns #1 scoring option and has to take way harder shots and work way harder for shots.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202684/stats/shooting/
Tristan Thompson shoots 38% from inside the paint
Tristan thompson shoots 58% from inside 8ft
Tristan Thompson shoots 28% from 8-16ft.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202693/stats/shooting/
Markieff Morris shoots 46% from inside the paint
Markieff Morris shoots 54% from inside 8ft
Markieff Morris shoots 51% from 8-16ft


75% of Tristan Thompson shots came from INSIDE the RESTRICTED AREA


Who are you trying to fool? Seriously. You can't seriously think that Tristan Thompson is even close in terms of shooting or offensive play. That is like comparing Tim Duncan to DeAndre Jordan.

 

[slinslin]

He went from posting pretty bad shooting numbers (for an interior big) to serviceable ones.

Thompson is a horrendous shooter still. 75% of his shot attempts are layup/dunks and he scores 8ppg off the bench.

It's like saying DeAndre Jordan is the best shooter in the league, he is shooting 60% something.

 

[elindholm]

Tristan Thomspon ... the majority of his shots are garbage points against 2nd stringers.

I don't suppose you have data to back that up? When you ignore this question, I will assume that the answer is "No."

Markieff is the Suns #1 scoring option

That's absurd. The Suns' so-called PGs are the top scoring options.

and has to take way harder shots and work way harder for shots.

True, but that's because he doesn't seek out positioning aggressively, and he plays a lot smaller than his size.

75% of Tristan Thompson shots came from INSIDE the RESTRICTED AREA

So what? Being a threat in the paint is a skill that not all NBA big men have. Wouldn't Morris get more shots off in the paint if he could?

You can't seriously think that Tristan Thompson is even close in terms of shooting or offensive play. That is like comparing Tim Duncan to DeAndre Jordan.

In terms of "shooting," I agree that MkMorris is better. But overall "offensive play" includes other things, areas in which Morris is pretty markedly deficient.

 

[sunsfan88]

agreed. Thompson/Len can be a VERY good defensive frontcourt. Two guys who actually rebound the ball? It would be unheard of on this team. And you hope Len's offense comes around to pick up the slack on Thompson's end.

Kieff freaking sucks... that's the bottom line. He's an AWFUL rebounder, a bad defender and a solid offensive player with a terrible attitude on and off the court. That does nothing for this team. makes no impact whatsoever.

Wrong, I think his whining and complaining about the refs and the fans not supporting a mediocre team and then him and his brother beating up people off the court will all start rubbing off on the younger guys on the team like Warren, Goodwin, Len etc. and they'll start thinking "Oh I guess this is how I'm supposed to act as a rich NBA player, spoiled and entitled...."

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree with Eric, Cheese, and others. Rebounding, defense, athleticism, attitude, efficiency- Thompson has it, and Morris does not.

Cleavland's defense has been outstanding since Thompson replaced Love in the starting lineup. When it comes to role players, I'll always go with an efficient, defensive-minded, rebounding big than with someone like Morris.

 

[BC867]

I agree with Eric, Cheese, and others. Rebounding, defense, athleticism, attitude, efficiency- Thompson has it, and Morris does not.

Cleveland's defense has been outstanding since Thompson replaced Love in the starting lineup. When it comes to role players, I'll always go with an efficient, defensive-minded, rebounding big than with someone like Morris.

Me, too. As long as the coaching staff doesn't bench such a player and go small during every 4th quarter.

Unfortunately, that is not the M.O. of the current regime. Or most Suns coaching staffs.

In other words, if that doesn't change, what does it matter?

 

[Phrazbit]

True shooting percentages:

Thompson: .516 in 2012-13, .528 in 2013-14, .580 in 2014-15
MkMorris: .473, .564, .523

Percentage on 2-point FGA only:
Thompson: .490, .478, .547
MkMorris: .426, .512, .494

Thompson was better in 2012-13 and this past season; MkMorris was better in 2013-14 only.



And defense, and general athleticism, and attitude, and age.



I'd rather see them commit big money to Thompson, and let one of Bledsoe/Knight go, than have them build around two undersized combo guards.

I feel like those shooting stats pretty much back up my point. Markieff was absolute trash in 12/13, he improved a lot, he is actually a good shooter now. Thompson as an offensive player looked sub-par before he got LeBron spoon feeding him easy baskets.

He is unquestionably a better rebounder, that much is true. But I don't think either butter bread on D, and I wouldn't call either a high end athlete at their position.

I can't stand Markieff, if league rules allowed them to waive him like in the NFL I'd be all about it. But what is the freaking point of signing a guy like Thompson? We could have him right now instead of Markieff and I expect the general sentiment would be "we need to upgrade that position".

The question shouldn't be about Thompson vs what we have but Thompson vs the league, and compared to the league he is, at best, a middling starter. A guy who's only plus attribute is rebounding and its not like he is elite in that stat anyway.

I'm really surprised to see you and cheese go all in for this idea. You two hate the cycle of mediocrity.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It would cost a hefty amount in both players and salary to land him and we'd come away still needing a reliable big to put in there.

Salary, probably, but why players? He'll be an unrestricted FA.

At best he is a marginal upgrade over Markieff and really, only in the context of rebounding. People complain all the time about building for mediocrity and Thompson seems like the exact type of acquisition that would fit that bill.

Again, at 23 you'll be speculatively buying under the assumption he improves and grows offensively.

Look, I'm not saying this kind of move is without risks, but what alternative do we have at this point? Last year made it pretty clear that the Loves/Gasols/Aldridges of the world ain't coming here.

Would you prefer to come back next year with the same squad (and some minor FA additions), or try something different? As a non premier destination for players, I think we need to gamble, and see Len/Thompson as a nice duo.

 

[SirStefan32]

Suns are terrible right now. They can't pass or run the offense, they can't shoot, can't rebound, can't play D. Thompson can rebound, defend (contrary to what some here say), and while not a great scorer, he is an efficient one. If you are going to overpay, overpay for a big man who can rebound, defend, and has some toughness to him. This doesn't solve our big problem (no real PG, no real SG, lack of shooters) but it would address some issues.

 

[elindholm]

I'm really surprised to see you and cheese go all in for this idea. You two hate the cycle of mediocrity.

It depends on what he would cost. I agree that he's not a franchise player and most likely never will be. He could maybe be the #3 on a contender if the top two were MVP candidates (well, he is right now, technically). But since the Suns' franchise guy probably isn't coming this summer, I don't see any reason not to make whatever moderate-cost improvements might be out there.

Having said all that, I doubt that Thompson is available.

 

[Joe Mama]

You are clueless.

And btw calling Thompson a legit 6'10 rebounding big man with supposedly good character, got to be a joke.

Thompson measured 6'7 1/2 without shoes, that is smaller than Markieff measured.

Thompson is essentially 6'9". I don't want to get into a wall thing about whether we should consider measurements with or without shoes, but the fact is the guys play in shoes not barefoot. Furthermore Thompson's wingspan was 2.5" longer than Morris, his standing reach is 2" (9'0.5"), and these more athletic than Morris.

WTF are you trying to tell us here?

Tristan Thomspon is a bad offensive player and the majority of his shots are garbage points against 2nd stringers.

Markieff is the Suns #1 scoring option and has to take way harder shots and work way harder for shots.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202684/stats/shooting/
Tristan Thompson shoots 38% from inside the paint
Tristan thompson shoots 58% from inside 8ft
Tristan Thompson shoots 28% from 8-16ft.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202693/stats/shooting/
Markieff Morris shoots 46% from inside the paint
Markieff Morris shoots 54% from inside 8ft
Markieff Morris shoots 51% from 8-16ft


75% of Tristan Thompson shots came from INSIDE the RESTRICTED AREA


Who are you trying to fool? Seriously. You can't seriously think that Tristan Thompson is even close in terms of shooting or offensive play. That is like comparing Tim Duncan to DeAndre Jordan.

This is where I totally agree with you and the problem I would have with signing Thompson to a big contract. Thompson is pretty good defensively and he is a strong rebounder, but all his offense is right around the basket where he's either putting back an offensive rebound or spoon fed a shot.

To answer Eric's question I can tell you that almost 85% of his shots were non-post up plays around the basket. About 7% were jump shots (most of those were short jumpers), and he ranked in the bottom 5% of the entire league in jump shots. His post up was also about 7% of his shots and he ranked in the 67% on those. Keep in mind on a lot of these numbers are against the other team's bench players. I would guess Morris playing against starters last year instead of bench players a lot of time the year before contributed to his efficiency dip last season. Well, there was also the three-point struggles of last year's team versus the year before.

I've got to believe there are 4/5's out there that could give you what Thompson would or darn close to it for a hell of a lot less money. You generally don't want to pay big money for a power forward with such a lack of offensive game unless he's an elite level defender/rebounder and he's going to be playing next to a dynamic scorer. I don't think either of those are true in this case.

I feel like those shooting stats pretty much back up my point. Markieff was absolute trash in 12/13, he improved a lot, he is actually a good shooter now. Thompson as an offensive player looked sub-par before he got LeBron spoon feeding him easy baskets.

He is unquestionably a better rebounder, that much is true. But I don't think either butter bread on D, and I wouldn't call either a high end athlete at their position.

I can't stand Markieff, if league rules allowed them to waive him like in the NFL I'd be all about it. But what is the freaking point of signing a guy like Thompson? We could have him right now instead of Markieff and I expect the general sentiment would be "we need to upgrade that position".

The question shouldn't be about Thompson vs what we have but Thompson vs the league, and compared to the league he is, at best, a middling starter. A guy who's only plus attribute is rebounding and its not like he is elite in that stat anyway.

I'm really surprised to see you and cheese go all in for this idea. You two hate the cycle of mediocrity.

Agreed. If we are talking about his play alone Markieff Morris is perfect as one of the first players off the bench. I actually don't mind his brother off the bench either. That said I'm embarrassed about the way they act. I've got no problem with them complaining to the referees when they get fouled, but these guys are just *******s about it. It's every single time they take a shot and it doesn't stop until they get called for a technical or taken out of the game.

I have no idea what I want to move I want to see this summer, but I would only sign Thompson if he could be had on a really nice contract. I think somebody's going to give him a big contract though.

 

[Phrazbit]

Salary, probably, but why players? He'll be an unrestricted FA.



Again, at 23 you'll be speculatively buying under the assumption he improves and grows offensively.

Look, I'm not saying this kind of move is without risks, but what alternative do we have at this point? Last year made it pretty clear that the Loves/Gasols/Aldridges of the world ain't coming here.

Would you prefer to come back next year with the same squad (and some minor FA additions), or try something different? As a non premier destination for players, I think we need to gamble, and see Len/Thompson as a nice duo.

I don't think thats gambling. I don't think anyone thinks Thompson will ever be anything better than an acceptable starter. He isn't some high ceiling player, like some raw athlete who needs to refine his skills. He is a 24 year old 3 year starter, slightly undersized for his position, who has played at basically the same level since entering the league. If he improves on his current form I expect it will be minimal.

I'm all for trying something different and IMO Thompson is the farthest thing from change. He is a double down on the same mediocre bigs we already have. If we're going to change the formula I'd vote to just blow up the team, not further invest in guys who, at their best, will continue to help us hover around barely making or missing the playoffs.

 

[sunsfan88]

The thing about Thompson is that he's a double double machine without having any plays run for him. He's probably gonna bring in 10 pts and 10 rebounds a night as a starter.

Now its debatable if that's worth a max or not.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing about Thompson is that he's a double double machine without having any plays run for him. He's probably gonna bring in 10 pts and 10 rebounds a night as a starter.

Now its debatable if that's worth a max or not.

I don't think there is any debate over that. Nobody in their right mind will give Thompson any kind of a max. There might be a team not in their right mind, like the Suns with Bledsoe, but if I were a GM, I would not offer him anything over $12M per year.

 

[BC867]

I get the impression that, other than his rebounding, the best part about obtaining Tristan Thompson is that it means the twins, and their negative behavior, would be gone.

'Not a long-term solution, but a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, when a team's roster is as bad as the Suns, that is probably the best we could hope for at this time.

 

[Errntknght]

A player comparable to Thompson is Ed Davis who signed with LAL for one year at 1 million last summer. He rebounds somewhat better and is a better rim protector - 1.9 blocks/36 vs 0.5 for Tristan. Overall D is about the same and is similar offensively - scoring all of his points very near the basket.

He and Thompson are also quite similar to Brandan Wright. I was already thinking in terms of adding Davis if Wright has his sights set on a significant raise - not that we're likely to get Ed for 1 million/year. He is a much better rebounder than Wright so between the two I'd prefer Davis.

Another player in this mold is 2nd year player Tarik Black, who Houston released to make room for Josh Smith last year and the Lakers picked him up. He's a more physical player than the others and I like him for that. When I suggested getting him last year someone said he was a problem child but I haven't heard any rumblings about that from the Lakers. Black rebounds on a par with Davis and he'll probably improve with experience. Very similar rim defense stats, too, with fewer blocks - 0.7/36. He's the youngest, 23, and the biggest 6'11 257 (and the cheapest - 500K rookie contract.)

I'd choose Black out of the whole bunch of them - none of them score enough to be ideal but if we are looking for a back up big man, strong rebounding and physically strong are what I want.

 

[sunsfan88]

I get the impression that, other than his rebounding, the best part about obtaining Tristan Thompson is that it means the twins, and their negative behavior, would be gone.

'Not a long-term solution, but a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, when a team's roster is as bad as the Suns, that is probably the best we could hope for at this time.

Now this is interesting that you brought it up because I wonder if CLE would be interested in a sign and trade with Thompson (and perhaps more) for the twins.

If LeBron and Blatt could straighten out JR Smith then I don't think the Morris twins are beyond repair. Plus LeBron has first hand experience of how good Kieff is (had a big game against them in a win last season) and Marcus is certainly an upgrade over the corpses of Shawn Marion, Mike Miller and James Jones.

CLE is one team that I could see taking on the Morris twins even with the assault case pending and the other attitude problems they bring.

 

[Absolute Zero]

I guess this applies to the draft as well the Thompson question, but are we looking for a "4" that gets the lion share of his points in the paint? Or are we looking for more of a stretch 4 that can hit the 3?

 

[BC867]

I guess this applies to the draft as well the Thompson question, but are we looking for a "4" that gets the lion share of his points in the paint? Or are we looking for more of a stretch 4 that can hit the 3?

Knowing the Suns . . . . . . .

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think there is any debate over that. Nobody in their right mind will give Thompson any kind of a max. There might be a team not in their right mind, like the Suns with Bledsoe, but if I were a GM, I would not offer him anything over $12M per year.

agreed. I'm not in favor of Maxing out thompson, but if we could swing a 12 million a year deal for him, while moving the twins at the same time, I'd take it. you'd have the building blocks for something like the mid 90's Pacers had up front with Thompson/Len playing the role of Smits/Davis (either one of them). Fine a couple superstars (somehow... don't ask me how) at the perimeter positions and that team could be very good... and big.