Tough Draft Review

[Harry]

Missouri had a very bad team last season and that made Boehm's task much more difficult. He graded much higher in previous seasons. I thought he had a solid, but not flashy year when I saw him. He'll play much better with the Cards' line where he can show his football IQ.

 

[splitsecond]

Man, the rest of that line is baaaaad.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

this one puzzled me -- as it seems completely at odds with other scouting reports out there. It makes Boehm sound like a turnstyle

Sorry to say again, but this was my impression of him. That is why I took him off my board altogether. Of all the C, surprised that was who Cards liked. Maybe our blocking schemes are such that a run blocking center is what we want. Maybe our C gets help from OG in pass blocking. I'm not up on that.

 

[kerouac9]

As to the first tape.

Mizzou runs the spread offense, and although they have at least put in a goal line package now, "They used to run the spread all the way down to the goal line." they still suck at goal line.

In that tape Boehm does well the rest of the line gets donkey kicked.

As to the 2nd tape meh.

It's impossible to tell until he gets rushed by some premier NFL type players could be over rather quick.

Boehm is very smart, he's a warrior, if he can hold up this is a great pick if he looks like Wylie Coyote under a steam roller then it won't be a great pick.

Sorry to say again, but this was my impression of him. That is why I took him off my board altogether. Of all the C, surprised that was who Cards liked. Maybe our blocking schemes are such that a run blocking center is what we want. Maybe our C gets help from OG in pass blocking. I'm not up on that.

Here's the thing: very, very few centers have to man-up at the point of attack against defensive tackles or nose tackles at the snap of the ball. It's not really physically possible for a center to be ready to block there. Usually, a center's first move is—in both run and pass pro—to pick up and help one of the guards, and then look to the next level.

Even when there's a nose tackle, you don't see NFL centers ever getting bull rushed back into the QB's face, because there's a guard there who can re-direct the momentum of the DL.

 

[conraddobler]

Here's the thing: very, very few centers have to man-up at the point of attack against defensive tackles or nose tackles at the snap of the ball. It's not really physically possible for a center to be ready to block there. Usually, a center's first move is—in both run and pass pro—to pick up and help one of the guards, and then look to the next level.

Even when there's a nose tackle, you don't see NFL centers ever getting bull rushed back into the QB's face, because there's a guard there who can re-direct the momentum of the DL.

Ours did circa when our line looked like they were facing D9 caterpillars.

I really don't think he'll be a problem I was just saying you never know.

 

[oaken1]

Here's the thing: very, very few centers have to man-up at the point of attack against defensive tackles or nose tackles at the snap of the ball. It's not really physically possible for a center to be ready to block there. Usually, a center's first move is—in both run and pass pro—to pick up and help one of the guards, and then look to the next level.

Even when there's a nose tackle, you don't see NFL centers ever getting bull rushed back into the QB's face, because there's a guard there who can re-direct the momentum of the DL.

isn't that exactly why the made a rule against lining up directly over center??

Centers used to be covered all the time,....DT/NT has to line up on the gap now instead.

 

[az jam]

Even when there's a nose tackle, you don't see NFL centers ever getting bull rushed back into the QB's face, because there's a guard there who can re-direct the momentum of the DL.

Plus he will be lining up with 2 of the best OGs: Iupati & Mathis.

 

[Cardiac]

isn't that exactly why the made a rule against lining up directly over center??

Centers used to be covered all the time,....DT/NT has to line up on the gap now instead.

I thought that was just for FG's and Punts because the center has to keep his head down looking at his target 8 to 10 yds back.

 

[HotSauce]

Draft grades are stupid. They are based upon the draft rankings and team need views of people that really don't follow the team very closely at all.

That said, Cardsfanstl, I agree with you on Nkemdiche. You hope for the best, but he looks like a bust waiting to happen, IMO.

 

[Stout]

isn't that exactly why the made a rule against lining up directly over center??

Centers used to be covered all the time,....DT/NT has to line up on the gap now instead.

That's for extra points and field goals only.

 

[oaken1]

That's for extra points and field goals only.

ahh...okidoke.... heard something about it but never looked into it...figured it was just another nfl scam to make scoring easier...

 

[Brighteyes]

This is sort of a sabermetric site if you don't know Pro Football Focus. I don't always agree but they are always interesting.

Arizona Cardinals, C-
1 (29) Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Ole Miss
3 (92) Brandon Williams, CB, Texas A&M
4 (128) Evan Boehm, C, Missouri
5 (167) Marqui Christian, S, Midwest State
5 (170) Cole Toner, OT, Harvard
6 (205) Harlan Miller, CB, Southeastern Louisiana

Day 1: Nkemdiche has interior pass-rush potential after grading at +23.4 as a rusher, ninth in the class. He’s not great against the run, but if he can line up over tight ends on early downs before kicking inside to rush the passer, the Cardinals can maximize his value.

Day 2: A pure projection pick, Williams is an athletic former running back who graded at -5.5 overall last season, 117th in among the cornerbacks in the draft class. His production simply didn’t match his athletic reputation.

Day 3: Boehm struggled in pass protection as his -7.9 grade ranked 57th among 63 qualifiers in the class. Arizona rounded out the class with two small-schoolers who struggled at the Senior Bowl in Toner (-2.6) and Miller (-1.0).

Honestly, doesn't this just mean that the Cardinal's draft board was different than PFF's?

So the real question is, whose opinion do you value more?

 

[conraddobler]

I like our team really.

I like that they are going for broke and my hope is that somehow our coaching staff can find a way to get our first round pick motivated to give his all when it counts at least.

Yeah it was dangerous and a gamble because it could blow up in their faces but at this point we should go for it because we are that close.

We're a dominant defense away from winning it all.

We'll see which is what the fun part is.

 

[Harry]

And here we go again....

Pro Football Focus is not a sabermetrics site. Sabermetrics involves real statistics, not a "grading system".

Here is what this site is:

1. They make up their own grading system, based upon the same observations anyone can make.

2. They come to a conclusion based on their grading system.

3. then they internally verify their own conclusion.

It's as stupid and flawed as QBR.

Certainly the PFF effort is much newer than sabremetrics, but the concept is similar. The intent is to try to provide more objective numerical evaluations to compare players. It may be a flawed effort, but it's far from stupid. Many sabermetric numbers are far from precise WAR and UZR quickly come to mind. While PFF is far from precise, it's a decent relative measure. Chances are someone rated poorly is not playing at a high level. Nor is an outstanding player often scored poorly. Like all systems in its early stages it needs a great deal of refinement.

We used batting average though hit/error calls are quite subjective. Matt Carpenter of the Cards stuck out far more in 2015 than previous seasons. Yet when a ball/strike grid was used to evaluate called strikes, the umps made more mistakes than with any other player, skewing his numbers. Like QBR many stats are not absolutely accurate, but they provide a relatively decent measure. The top QBs by most evaluations usually rank near the top of QBR. The bottom is mostly weak QBs and inexperienced players. So don't bet the farm on PFF evaluations, but also don't discount them as poorly based evaluations.

 

[ARZCardinals]

I may be in a distinct minority but I do not like the Cards first round pick. Great talent but too many red flags for me. Feel the risk factor was too great to take in the 1st round. People keep trying to compare him to Honey Badger but remember Honey Badger already had a support system in place here of former teammates to keep him straight. He stayed with Peterson's father and worked out with him. Peterson and his family were acting like a second family to him to keep him on the right path. To his credit Honey Badger is a true professional.

Hope I am wrong but I have my doubts about Nkemdiche.

Think!
The last time he used drugs he walked through a plate glass window and fell 4 stories to the ground.
Do you honestly think he didn't learn his lesson? There is no chance in hell he tries any drug for as long as he lives.
Use your head and put yourself in his shoes for 1 second...or is it more fun to make things up as you feel moment to moment

 

[Reign Blood]

If I was using a full A-F draft scale, I would give the Cardinals a C grade, as their draft was average. Not a ton of picks, and a bunch of small school players.

In the current A-D draft scale, I give it a B-/C+. It could be a good class, but a ton of unknowns with good athletes w/ limited production.

Although I don't agree with you I think you hit the nail on the head right here.

The Cards get a C grade because the teams that get an A are the teams drafting starters rather than depth or potential.

Personally I think the Cards were wanting more speed in the secondary then I read where their sixth rd pick didn't have all that speed and BA wasn't worried about it. I would give them a C just for being a bit lopsided in decision making.

 

[Buckybird]

Think!
The last time he used drugs he walked through a plate glass window and fell 4 stories to the ground.
Do you honestly think he didn't learn his lesson? There is no chance in hell he tries any drug for as long as he lives.
Use your head and put yourself in his shoes for 1 second...or is it more fun to make things up as you feel moment to moment

He sounds like a well liked kid who had a this 1 issue & I get that. The problem I have with Nkemciche is his lack to production in college given his god like talent everyone harps on. Outside of 4-5 games in his college career he was an average Joe

 

[Goldfield]

He sounds like a well liked kid who had a this 1 issue & I get that. The problem I have with Nkemciche is his lack to production in college given his god like talent everyone harps on. Outside of 4-5 games in his college career he was an average Joe

This scares me also.

I feel he brings potential star power and with the 29th pick that's a worthwhile risk imo.

 

[Cardiac]

He sounds like a well liked kid who had a this 1 issue & I get that. The problem I have with Nkemciche is his lack to production in college given his god like talent everyone harps on. Outside of 4-5 games in his college career he was an average Joe

I had some concern as well but I heard or read somewhere that the games Diche was awesome in were games against pro style offenses and the games he "appeared" to be slacking were against college style spread offenses. It that's true then that bodes well for his chances in the NFL since the only team that plays any kind of spread in the NFL will be the 9ers and they suck.

 

[ajcardfan]

Certainly the PFF effort is much newer than sabremetrics, but the concept is similar. The intent is to try to provide more objective numerical evaluations to compare players. It may be a flawed effort, but it's far from stupid. Many sabermetric numbers are far from precise WAR and UZR quickly come to mind. While PFF is far from precise, it's a decent relative measure. Chances are someone rated poorly is not playing at a high level. Nor is an outstanding player often scored poorly. Like all systems in its early stages it needs a great deal of refinement.

We used batting average though hit/error calls are quite subjective. Matt Carpenter of the Cards stuck out far more in 2015 than previous seasons. Yet when a ball/strike grid was used to evaluate called strikes, the umps made more mistakes than with any other player, skewing his numbers. Like QBR many stats are not absolutely accurate, but they provide a relatively decent measure. The top QBs by most evaluations usually rank near the top of QBR. The bottom is mostly weak QBs and inexperienced players. So don't bet the farm on PFF evaluations, but also don't discount them as poorly based evaluations.

Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's just another frigging opinion. Some times they will be right, other times they will be wrong. Just like anyone else who puts any effort into draft analysis. Whoop-te-doo.

 

[Sunburn]

Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's just another frigging opinion. Some times they will be right, other times they will be wrong. Just like anyone else who puts any effort into draft analysis. Whoop-te-doo.

Opinions are subjective. These are measures that try to remove subjectivity, based on statistical data.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Think!
The last time he used drugs he walked through a plate glass window and fell 4 stories to the ground.
Do you honestly think he didn't learn his lesson? There is no chance in hell he tries any drug for as long as he lives.
Use your head and put yourself in his shoes for 1 second...or is it more fun to make things up as you feel moment to moment

I'm guessing you've never done drugs or known anyone who has issues with drugs.

I'm not sayin Nkemdichi falls into this category, but there are plenty of people that I KNOW that have done something similar who don't give up the drugs and do other stupid things. And these are well-respected members of society and professionals. Apologies, but your comment above smacks of living in a sheltered, and maybe ignorant, world in regards to drug use.

 

[CFLredzoned]

I think it was Bob McManaman who said he thinks Nkemdiche will be starting his career in The Program. I don't know if he has specific information or if it was just a guess. I don't think the league provides that information. But you'd think teams would have a good idea of who is in and who isn't.

If Nk does have to start his career in the program, that's really bad news for Cardinal fans. I know they're not allowed to have alcohol at some level. I don't know if that's all levels - or the next level after you've aleady failed a test. I believe it's all levels. If that is the case, I give him a zero percent chance of making it through. After all, he has a posse to entertain. When they go clubbing, you think he's drinking water in the vip room? All it takes is for an NFL employee to be waiting for him with a pee cup when he gets home.

The other thing you have to wonder about is how much time he'll have to devote to football. I'm expectng a full DRC situation. IOW the posse is always there waiting for him when he gets home from practice. So his natural talent will get him to a certain level, but not to that elite level that requires putting in extra hours. Eventually, he'll get tired of the posse and send them packing. When that happens, he'll have a chance to be great - providing he doesn't have to begin his career in The Program of course.

 

[oaken1]

I had some concern as well but I heard or read somewhere that the games Diche was awesome in were games against pro style offenses and the games he "appeared" to be slacking were against college style spread offenses. It that's true then that bodes well for his chances in the NFL since the only team that plays any kind of spread in the NFL will be the 9ers and they suck.

seen an article and he said he does well against zone blocking but he has struggled with man schemes because he gets doubled and tripled in man blocking schemes. He needs to learn to beat the double team....and he will be fine.

 

[pinetopred]

IMO his off the field stuff is being overblown his on the field stuff is the part I worry about looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. This doesn't mean he won't become a complete ass off the field again either, but at some point kids grow up hope it happens for him. On the field I think he believed his hype and never worked at football now it's his job so he better be ready to work at it or it won't take long for somebody to replace him.