Top concerns heading into the season

[ASUCHRIS]

Look at the top 4 receivers from the Conference Championship teams last season. Not many big names once you get past the first 1 or 2 pass catchers.

Eagles:
WR AJ Brown 1079 yards
WR DeVonta Smith 833 yards
TE Dallas Goedert 496 yards
TE Grant Calcaterra 298 yards

Chiefs:
TE Travis Kelce 823 yards
WR Xavier Worthy 638 yards
WR DeAndre Hopkins 437 yards
TE Noah Gray 437 yards

Bills:
WR Khalil Shakir 821 yards
WR Keon Coleman 556 yards
TE Dalton Kincaid 448 yards
WR Mack Hollins 378 yards

Commanders:
WR Terry McLaurin 1097 yards
TE "Ghost Of" Zach Ertz 654 yards
WR Olamide Zaccheaus 506 yards
WR Noah Brown 453 yards

Now if we look at the Cardinals from last season:

Cardinals:
TE Trey McBride 1146 yards
WR Marvin Harrison Jr 885 yards
WR Michael Wilson 548 yards
RB James Conner 414 yards

These teams all have top tier QB's...Kyler can't make chicken salad out of you know what compared to a Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Well yeah but 3/4 have MVP-caliber QBs. Im not sure what this comparison is supposed to illustrate.

It’s not about names, it’s about dudes who can play. Im over the “Zach Pascal can play” discourse.

So the discussion was about the Cardinals going into the season without a good enough pass catcher past MHJr and Wilson. Chopper stated that WR3 and below don't get many passes in a run heavy offense with a receiving TE like McBride. So I looked into the top 4 pass catchers from the top 4 playoff teams to see who they had as their top pass catchers.

Much to choppers credit the #3 and #4 pass catching options on those teams didn't have many receiving yards or were even recognizable names to the average fan.

I threw the Cardinals on there as a comparison to show that they were not far off from those other teams. Ideally your RB wouldn't be one of your top 4 receivers. My concern is, can Zay Jones become that #4 pass catcher on this team after the dreadful season that he had last year? However I don't believe that Zay needs to be great as the #4 receiver as my data above shows, he just needs to be that 400 yard guy which I don't think is out of the question.

 

[Chopper0080]

Then guys like Wilson, Zay Jones and Dortch are the ones who should buy into their roles as the 3rd, 4th and 5th WRs they are… and are actually paid to be.

But there wasn't a legit option to get a WR better than Wilson...I'm not arguing the need, I am identifying the lack of availability to fill it on the market.

 

[Chopper0080]

What happens when we get down and need to run out 3 or 4 WR sets? Is the answer to not get down?

Even when down, the Cardinals rarely go 4 WR.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Even when down, the Cardinals rarely go 4 WR.

and i still don't miss whiz

 

[PDXChris]

Where You get that # from? Team is at 21mill not “over 30”

Yeah and we only have $18 next off season as of right now with a couple of extensions looming for PJJ, Garrett Williams and potentially Micheal Wilson and Dante Stills.

I'd rather keep home grown talent vs. throwing money at a name. No more Zack Allen situations.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But there wasn't a legit option to get a WR better than Wilson...I'm not arguing the need, I am identifying the lack of availability to fill it on the market.

People have identified numerous options. The idea that there wasn’t ANYONE on the market to battle Wilson for that spot is just a classic case of you refusing to admit you’re wrong about anything.

 

[Chopper0080]

So the discussion was about the Cardinals going into the season without a good enough pass catcher past MHJr and Wilson. Chopper stated that WR3 and below don't get many passes in a run heavy offense with a receiving TE like McBride. So I looked into the top 4 pass catchers from the top 4 playoff teams to see who they had as their top pass catchers.

Much to choppers credit the #3 and #4 pass catching options on those teams didn't have many receiving yards or were even recognizable names to the average fan.

I threw the Cardinals on there as a comparison to show that they were not far off from those other teams. Ideally your RB wouldn't be one of your top 4 receivers. My concern is, can Zay Jones become that #4 pass catcher on this team after the dreadful season that he had last year? However I don't believe that Zay needs to be great as the #4 receiver as my data above shows, he just needs to be that 400 yard guy which I don't think is out of the question.

Yes. It highlights that because of how the Cardinals offense wants to play, and with a TE like McBride, I understand why the Cardinals do not prioritize having a deeper WR group. I definitely agree that Wilson could be upgraded, but there wasn't a viable option to do so on the FA market last year. The Cardinals could have found a slightly better WR than Zay Jones, but ultimately, the benefit of doing so is minimal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah and we only have $18 next off season as of right now with a couple of extensions looming for PJJ, Garrett Williams and potentially Micheal Williams and Dante Stills.

And we have multiple guys with big contracts who are likely going to get cut that will open cap space who we signed last year because they’re dead weight.

The excuses just never stop for some of you. I mean… which is it? Monti’s been keeping the powder dry so we can really go for it when we’re ready for a deep playoff run or he’s bungled the cap so we’re going to be up against it next year when we should be going all in?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes. It highlights that because of how the Cardinals offense wants to play, and with a TE like McBride, I understand why the Cardinals do not prioritize having a deeper WR group. I definitely agree that Wilson could be upgraded, but there wasn't a viable option to do so on the FA market last year. The Cardinals could have found a slightly better WR than Zay Jones, but ultimately, the benefit of doing so is minimal.

A deeper group? They have ONE legit WR. Wilson has proved NOTHING.

 

[oaken1]

Let's not act as if there weren't upgrades available in FA/draft/trade to improve Kyler's weapons. It was a choice to do nothing.

This offense was plagued last year with receivers who couldn't get any separation - the solution is to run it back with essentially the same personnel?

oh do tell
Please provide a list of these oh so obvious upgrades that were available.
Because I havent seen any...just other guys that have warts of their own

 

[ASUCHRIS]

oh do tell
Please provide a list of these oh so obvious upgrades that were available.
Because I havent seen any...just other guys that have warts of their own

You're saying you can't conceive of ANYONE in FA/the draft/via trade that could have been an upgrade on our current top 3?

 

[Chopper0080]

People have identified numerous options. The idea that there wasn’t ANYONE on the market to battle Wilson for that spot is just a classic case of you refusing to admit you’re wrong about anything.

Tyler Lockett had more 52 yards receiving last year than Wilson, is a liability as a blocker, and is 32. I don't view that as a better option and struggle to see how he would be.

Demarcus Robinson had 40 yards less receiving than Wilson last year, he is 30, and signed a 2 year, 9.5 mil contract. Again, I don't see how this is viewed as an upgrade from Wilson.

Are they arguably better than Zay Jones...ok...but I don't believe that role matters enough to waste a spot and additional money.

 

[oaken1]

You're saying you can't conceive of ANYONE in FA/the draft/via trade that could have been an upgrade on our current top 3?

stop deflecting. Name names

 

[Garthshort]

Only injuries can stop us. If we're healthy, we're good to go. Even if other teams are healthy as well.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

stop deflecting. Name names

I'm not playing this silly game - it's the same Cards fan derangement that it's the job of the fans to be a GM instead of...the actual GM.

 

[Chopper0080]

A deeper group? They have ONE legit WR. Wilson has proved NOTHING.

He has proven to be a 38-47 catch per season WR with 3-4 TDs per year and can run block. 78th in the NFL in yards. The Rams paid Tutu Atwell 1 year, 10 mil after he had 14 more yards receiving than Michael Wilson.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm not playing this silly game - it's the same Cards fan derangement that it's the job of the fans to be a GM instead of...the actual GM.

Chris Godwin got 22 mil per year.
Davante Adams got 22 mil per year.
Stefon Diggs got 21 mil per year.
Cooper Kupp got 15 mil per year. He had 162 more yards receiving than Wilson.
Darius Slaton got 12 mil per year. He had 25 more receiving yards than Wilson
Dyami Brown got 10 mil. He had 148 less yards receiving than Wilson.
Josh Palmer got 10 mil per year. He had 36 more yards receiving than Wilson.

Maybe you just trust that I don't make stupid points, and that I do the research you don't want to do before I say stuff.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Chris Godwin got 22 mil per year.
Davante Adams got 22 mil per year.
Stefon Diggs got 12 mil per year.
Cooper Kupp got 15 mil per year. He had 162 more yards receiving than Wilson.
Darius Slaton got 12 mil per year. He had 25 more receiving yards than Wilson
Dyami Brown got 10 mil. He had 148 less yards receiving than Wilson.
Josh Palmer got 10 mil per year. He had 36 more yards receiving than Wilson.

Maybe you just trust that I don't make stupid points, and that I do the research you don't want to do before I say stuff.

I never insinuated you make stupid points - you must be confusing me with someone else. Yes, FA can be a dangerous route. Trade and the draft were also avenues where they could have improved the room.

I'm not the least bit concerned about the money or cap space on shorter term deals either - they could have been creative, and money shouldn't have been a concern.

I'm happy that they spent some money on D, which will help Kyler, but I feel like the offense in general was pretty much ignored in the offseason. Considering what a crucial year this is for Kyler and the team in general, it was a surprise that there were no significant moves to improve the offense.

 

[Chopper0080]

I never insinuated you make stupid points - you must be confusing me with someone else. Yes, FA can be a dangerous route. Trade and the draft were also avenues where they could have improved the room.

I'm not the least bit concerned about the money or cap space on shorter term deals either - they could have been creative, and money shouldn't have been a concern.

I'm happy that they spent some money on D, which will help Kyler, but I feel like the offense in general was pretty much ignored in the offseason. Considering what a crucial year this is for Kyler and the team in general, it was a surprise that there were no significant moves to improve the offense.

Insert the Windhorst "Why would they do that" meme.

 

[oaken1]

I'm not playing this silly game - it's the same Cards fan derangement that it's the job of the fans to be a GM instead of...the actual GM.

I see.
So man-up and just admit you were talking out of your assets. Just bitching to bitch.

Marques Valdez Scantling, Carl Pickens, Tyreek Hill... those are the three guys I had some interest in...but Tyreek is a locker room and off the field problem and it's not likely they would risk adding his influence to the locker room.
. And the other two likely ain't any better than Zay Jones and would be a net negative for us in 2025...
You see, team building is a skill. You can't just look at pff and yahoo fantasy football and build a team. You have to take a gestalt position and blend pieces that accent one another....
And when building this team...one always has to consider first and foremost that our quarterback has trust issues...and if we bring in any guy that's not well known around the league as a dawg...kyler ain't gonna throw him the ball... just like he didn't wanna throw to Marv...and just like the tape from last season shows dozens of plays where Jones got open but kyler looked off him and forced a throw elsewhere....
That's why re signing Zay Jones was exactly the right move to make...there was no free agent that was good enough for kyler to trust him on rep alone..
So we get a WR in the draft next year.
We need a dynamic wr...either a burner or a Bolden/Samuel type YAC bruiser.... but the options were not available this off season.
Bitching about it is akin to being mad at your dog because he doesn't meow

 

[MadCardDisease]

Tyler Lockett had more 52 yards receiving last year than Wilson, is a liability as a blocker, and is 32. I don't view that as a better option and struggle to see how he would be.

Demarcus Robinson had 40 yards less receiving than Wilson last year, he is 30, and signed a 2 year, 9.5 mil contract. Again, I don't see how this is viewed as an upgrade from Wilson.

Are they arguably better than Zay Jones...ok...but I don't believe that role matters enough to waste a spot and additional money.

Lockett will be 33 in a month. For a receiver who relies on speed that is not a good thing. I do however like the veteran leadership that he would have brought to a young WR room. Not sure he has much left in the tank though.

 

[kerouac9]

A deeper group? They have ONE legit WR. Wilson has proved NOTHING.

I don’t think this is the case. Wilson has shown he can play in this league. He is, IMHO, slightly above replacement level. With a very good QB, he could be a legit/second tier WR2.

He’s perfectly adequate in this offense, but we should expect more than adequacy.

 

[unseenaz]

A deeper group? They have ONE legit WR. Wilson has proved NOTHING.

Saw way too many clips last season where Wilson was wide open begging for the ball before K1 checked down to JC for a gain of 4.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Insert the Windhorst "Why would they do that" meme.

7 year plan?