Today’s Draft Rumor

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,426
Reaction score
27,629
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I'm confused, you don't think that rookies get better as they gain more experience in the NFL? Seems like common sense to me.
I do. I don't think it's any more true than it is for most every NFL position, though. It's also extremely hard to quantify OL performance. Just throwing names out there doesn't do much for me.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,526
Reaction score
12,394
there is some middle ground here

he was a competent starting OT for 17 games

Most OTs improve considerably between year 1 and years 2 and 3.

just because PJJ was JAG in year one, doesnt mean he cant be an upper tier OT
He was definitely competent - didn't embarrass himself. Looks like he'll be a solid piece moving forward. The problem is giving up the defensive rookie of the year for a guy that just looks solid but unspectacular. It seems very clear that Monti views the draft as his vehicle to stars. He's already passed on a potential star for a solid player - will he make the same mistake at 4 if MHJ is there and we trade down again?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,211
Reaction score
53,623
Location
SoCal
there is some middle ground here

he was a competent starting OT for 17 games

Most OTs improve considerably between year 1 and years 2 and 3.

just because PJJ was JAG in year one, doesnt mean he cant be an upper tier OT
Agreed. But I believe the convo was about elite players and he was not that last season.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,426
Reaction score
27,629
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Or like, every tackle ever? Practically all players ever actually. Weird you need a citation.
Improvement from year 1 to year 2 is already baked into the evaluation. The OP originally cited that tackles in particular get better after their rookie seasons. That's the citation needed.
 

Mulli

...
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Posts
52,529
Reaction score
4,591
Location
Generational
Improvement from year 1 to year 2 is already baked into the evaluation. The OP originally cited that tackles in particular get better after their rookie seasons. That's the citation needed.
"needed"
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,671
Reaction score
32,683
Location
Orange County, CA
He was definitely competent - didn't embarrass himself. Looks like he'll be a solid piece moving forward. The problem is giving up the defensive rookie of the year for a guy that just looks solid but unspectacular. It seems very clear that Monti views the draft as his vehicle to stars. He's already passed on a potential star for a solid player - will he make the same mistake at 4 if MHJ is there and we trade down again?
I think you're short selling PJJ. I think he can be a Pro Bowlish caliber player.

And I don't think Anderson will ever be the best at his position either. He's not better than Bosa, Garrett, TJ Watt, etc.

LT>Edge.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
46,069
Reaction score
11,611
I think you're short selling PJJ. I think he can be a Pro Bowlish caliber player.

And I don't think Anderson will ever be the best at his position either. He's not better than Bosa, Garrett, TJ Watt, etc.

LT>Edge.
That's a hot take. I think most would disagree.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,526
Reaction score
12,394
I think you're short selling PJJ. I think he can be a Pro Bowlish caliber player.
That standard is kind of iffy at this point - yes, I'd love to see him make the pro bowl for sure, but there are plenty of questionable pro bowl selections.
And I don't think Anderson will ever be the best at his position either. He's not better than Bosa, Garrett, TJ Watt, etc.

LT>Edge.
Anderson sure as hell showed a lot more potential to be a star at edge, than the guy who played exactly 0 snaps at LT and isn't for sure going to play there this year. I said elite as well - not the best. Having a top 5 edge is pretty damn valuable.
 

Mulli

...
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Posts
52,529
Reaction score
4,591
Location
Generational
That standard is kind of iffy at this point - yes, I'd love to see him make the pro bowl for sure, but there are plenty of questionable pro bowl selections.

Anderson sure as hell showed a lot more potential to be a star at edge, than the guy who played exactly 0 snaps at LT and isn't for sure going to play there this year. I said elite as well - not the best. Having a top 5 edge is pretty damn valuable.
Clarification: did you just jump to Anderson being a top 5 edge? That seems like a different thread.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,526
Reaction score
12,394
Clarification: did you just jump to Anderson being a top 5 edge? That seems like a different thread.
No - I said he had elite potential, as the current defensive rookie of the year. I don't think anyone outside of Cards honks see PJJ as an elite talent.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,426
Reaction score
27,629
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I think you're short selling PJJ. I think he can be a Pro Bowlish caliber player.

And I don't think Anderson will ever be the best at his position either. He's not better than Bosa, Garrett, TJ Watt, etc.

LT>Edge.

I'm pretty confident that Will Anderson will be better than PJJ and whomever we get at 27. PJJ by all indications projects as a slightly better DJ Humphries. If Will Anderson ends up as "only" a top 10 Edge but not a top 5 or top 3, Anderson ends up the better option.

That's a hot take. I think most would disagree.

Yeah. I mean, an ELITE LT is more valuable than an elite Edge -- I'd rather have Trent Williams than Nick Bosa. I'd rather have Joe Thomas than J.J. Watt (selected because they were both on the Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade team) or Julius Peppers. If only because the LT affects every play and a good edge can be managed a little.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,061
Reaction score
12,563
Location
Chandler, Az
He was definitely competent - didn't embarrass himself. Looks like he'll be a solid piece moving forward. The problem is giving up the defensive rookie of the year for a guy that just looks solid but unspectacular. It seems very clear that Monti views the draft as his vehicle to stars. He's already passed on a potential star for a solid player - will he make the same mistake at 4 if MHJ is there and we trade down again?

Will Anderson had a good season for a rookie but I wouldn't call it Elite either. Anderson had 7 sacks last season which wasn't even the most by a rookie.

I think that both Anderson and PJJ will only get better with more experience. But I wouldn't call either Elite at this point.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,671
Reaction score
32,683
Location
Orange County, CA
I'm pretty confident that Will Anderson will be better than PJJ and whomever we get at 27. PJJ by all indications projects as a slightly better DJ Humphries. If Will Anderson ends up as "only" a top 10 Edge but not a top 5 or top 3, Anderson ends up the better option.



Yeah. I mean, an ELITE LT is more valuable than an elite Edge -- I'd rather have Trent Williams than Nick Bosa. I'd rather have Joe Thomas than J.J. Watt (selected because they were both on the Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade team) or Julius Peppers. If only because the LT affects every play and a good edge can be managed a little.
Read your first paragraph and the read your second again.

If PJJ ends up better than Humphries, he will be more valuable than the 10th best edge in the game. If PJJ somehow becomes a perennial Pro Bowls type LT (doubtful), it will be a slam dunk move.

With the modern NFL rules, LT is probably the second most valuable position after QB.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,061
Reaction score
12,563
Location
Chandler, Az
Yeah. I mean, an ELITE LT is more valuable than an elite Edge -- I'd rather have Trent Williams than Nick Bosa. I'd rather have Joe Thomas than J.J. Watt (selected because they were both on the Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade team) or Julius Peppers. If only because the LT affects every play and a good edge can be managed a little.

Yep. Plus you have to consider that a LT is protecting the most valuable asset on a team that is pretty much not replaceable.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,426
Reaction score
27,629
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Read your first paragraph and the read your second again.

If PJJ ends up better than Humphries, he will be more valuable than the 10th best edge in the game. If PJJ somehow becomes a perennial Pro Bowls type LT (doubtful), it will be a slam dunk move.

With the modern NFL rules, LT is probably the second most valuable position after QB.
I dunno. I think the Hump finishes as somewhere around the 12th-20th-best OT in the NFL during his time here. He went to one pro bowl as an alternate. If PJJ is only slightly better than DJ Humphries' best five-year stretch, that's pretty mid for a top 10 pick.

I'd rather have an above-average Edge than an above average LT, though. Would you rather have Haason Reddick or DJ Humphries?
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
540,795
Posts
5,295,684
Members
6,288
Latest member
Crazy_Player
Top