The Suns next big move

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You just cannot give up on big men this early. You can't. Ayton will be a serviceable NBA player no matter what happens. Throwing away a #1 pick because he does not meet the lofty expectations of the first overall pick when he is only 6 games into his second season his just foolishness.

I don’t think anyone is advocating anything like cutting him (I mean how else to decipher “throwing away #1 pick...?”). But people can certainly throw out their opinion.

despite all my criticism of Ayton, and my fears of his never realizing his max potential, I remain hopeful (though hope is somewhat eroding each game I see lack of growth) that he’ll mature into a stud. But note, that’s hope not expectation.

 

[pokerface]

I'm getting ready to pull the plug on Ayton and say get Townes

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm getting ready to pull the plug on Ayton and say get Townes

I'm not even close to being there yet. I have not seen enough of Ayton. He should still be a really good player. The only way I consider it is if Booker shows signs of extreme unhappiness.

A trade for Towns would likely be very expensive not only in terms of money but assets as well. He would probably require a couple of first round draft picks plus Ayton and filler. If the Suns want to use a first round pick or two, it would likely better be spent on a quality power forward. Do not have much faith in the Suns ability to draft.

 

[1Sun]

You just cannot give up on big men this early. You can't. Ayton will be a serviceable NBA player no matter what happens. Throwing away a #1 pick because he does not meet the lofty expectations of the first overall pick when he is only 6 games into his second season his just foolishness.

For me, this isn't about giving up on Ayton so much as it is about acquiring Towns. If current circumstances prevail, I'm afraid Booker will implode, and the team along with him. Acquiring Towns (or to a lesser extent Russell) would go a long way toward alleviating that. An alternative would be to trade Rubio, Tyler Johnson and perhaps Cam Johnson to the Warriors for Russell and filler, but I doubt the Warriors make that trade.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not even close to being there yet. I have not seen enough of Ayton. He should still be a really good player. The only way I consider it is if Booker shows signs of extreme unhappiness.

A trade for Towns would likely be very expensive not only in terms of money but assets as well. He would probably require a couple of first round draft picks plus Ayton and filler. If the Suns want to use a first round pick or two, it would likely better be spent on a quality power forward. Do not have much faith in the Suns ability to draft.

Aytons wussy "non physical, non inside" game is already getting to me. I couldn't imagine his game in a playoff atmosphere. I guess 'fortunately' we arent even close to playoffs so seeing his game exposed is a non issue. I just don't know if he will grow out of this. He'll be a good player but not a player to get us to the promised land.

 

[CRC83]

I'm not even close to being there yet. I have not seen enough of Ayton. He should still be a really good player. The only way I consider it is if Booker shows signs of extreme unhappiness.

A trade for Towns would likely be very expensive not only in terms of money but assets as well. He would probably require a couple of first round draft picks plus Ayton and filler. If the Suns want to use a first round pick or two, it would likely better be spent on a quality power forward. Do not have much faith in the Suns ability to draft.

I agree that it would be an overpay to do Ayton + multiple first round picks for Towns. But I would do a KAT for Ayton straight up (and Tyler Johnson for salaries). I’m sure the wolves would want more, but not sure if they would have a better offer. I understand that it is tough to make a trade like this when we don’t know for sure what Ayton becomes. But, at this point, I prefer the known commodity vs the potential of Ayton. Again, I doubt the wolves would do this...unless KAT makes enough noise and there aren’t any better offers.

 

[pokerface]

I agree that it would be an overpay to do Ayton + multiple first round picks for Townes. But I would do a KAT for Ayton straight up (and Tyler Johnson for salaries). I’m sure the wolves would want more, but not sure if they would have a better offer. I understand that it is tough to make a trade like this when we don’t know for sure what Ayton becomes. But, at this point, I prefer the known commodity vs the potential of Ayton. Again, I doubt the wolves would do this...unless KAT makes enough noise and there aren’t any better offers.

I'd throw a single first rounder in there. Reality I think we'd rise in the standings and the first rounder would be worth less anyway.

I think it would be exciting to see KAT and Book reunited. I want to see some good basketball again dammit

 

[Bobster]

KAT doesn't really play much defense and neither does Booker, so you'll have basically cast your lot with a team that would have to outscore their opponents.

And we've seen how well that's worked for the Suns in the past.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You just cannot give up on big men this early. You can't. Ayton will be a serviceable NBA player no matter what happens. Throwing away a #1 pick because he does not meet the lofty expectations of the first overall pick when he is only 6 games into his second season his just foolishness.

you're arguing against a straw man and it's REALLY annoying. No one's advocating "giving up" on Ayton and just getting rid of him. People are advocating going out and getting the guy who's already BETTER than Ayton since people don't know if Ayton has the drive to get any better than he is.

stop making up other people's arguments. all it does it make your own look weaker in comparison and demonstrate the hypocrisy of you calling other people foolish.

 

[CRC83]

KAT doesn't really play much defense and neither does Booker, so you'll have basically cast your lot with a team that would have to outscore their opponents.

And we've seen how well that's worked for the Suns in the past.

They wouldn’t be good defensively. But, we already have Booker, so it just comes down to whether you believe Booker/KAT will be better than Booker/Ayton.

 

[TJ]

I'd throw a single first rounder in there. Reality I think we'd rise in the standings and the first rounder would be worth less anyway.

I think it would be exciting to see KAT and Book reunited. I want to see some good basketball again dammit

Not there yet. Not convinced that KAT is the missing piece, particularly if you have to give up potential high-end draft prospects. IMO, Ayton is playing much better defense than KAT at this moment, though Ayton needs to revive his offensive game.

 

[TJ]

KAT doesn't really play much defense and neither does Booker, so you'll have basically cast your lot with a team that would have to outscore their opponents.

And we've seen how well that's worked for the Suns in the past.

This.

I don't think KAT would add many wins to this current roster, or future roster when first-rounders are given up.

BTW - you know what would be worse than passing on Luka? Giving up on Ayton only to watch him put up 25+/12+ elsewhere

 

[1Sun]

This.

I don't think KAT would add many wins to this current roster, or future roster when first-rounders are given up.

BTW - you know what would be worse than passing on Luka? Giving up on Ayton only to watch him put up 25+/12+ elsewhere

But worst of all would be Ayton stuck at 18 and 12 with further off court transgressions and a frustrated Booker demanding a trade, where we get pennies on the dollar.

Of course, I would still like to see first what Ayton does with a legitimate inside presence at power forward or even center next to him, but alas, it seems that all James Jones cares about is ability to hit the 3...

 

[CRC83]

This.

I don't think KAT would add many wins to this current roster, or future roster when first-rounders are given up.

BTW - you know what would be worse than passing on Luka? Giving up on Ayton only to watch him put up 25+/12+ elsewhere

So exactly what KAT averaged his second year in the league? Hah

How is trading a guy who ends up averaging 25+/12+ for a guy who already averages 25+/12 worse than passing on Luka?

 

[SirStefan32]

I hate that Ayton is getting all this from the fans. This is what happens when fans severely over-hype someone. The very same fans turn on him the second they realize their expectations were too high. By all objective measures, Ayton is ahead of where a second-year big man should be at the beginning of his second season. Anyone who wasn't a homer (or severely anti Doncic) would have seen that Ayton was a passive player who lacks the motor, drive, motivation, or whatever else we want to call it. He gets to the NBA, plays the same style he played in college and everyone is shocked.

 

[TJ]

So exactly what KAT averaged his second year in the league? Hah

How is trading a guy who ends up averaging 25+/12+ for a guy who already averages 25+/12 worse than passing on Luka?

Because a) you already passed on Luka. It's simply not worth ruminating over anymore. b) you gave up on your #1 pick, c) you get a player who, for all of his accolades, hasn't moved the meter much in Minnesota in terms of team success, and d) forfeited future assets.

If you're going to give up on Ayton now, which I think is premature, you need to find a bigger fish. I don't think one exists without completely obliterating the franchise, so the best course is to stay the course and use future picks and cap space to add talent around your core of Book, Ayton, and (maybe) Oubre.

 

[Covert Rain]

I hate that Ayton is getting all this from the fans. This is what happens when fans severely over-hype someone. The very same fans turn on him the second they realize their expectations were too high. By all objective measures, Ayton is ahead of where a second-year big man should be at the beginning of his second season. Anyone who wasn't a homer (or severely anti Doncic) would have seen that Ayton was a passive player who lacks the motor, drive, motivation, or whatever else we want to call it. He gets to the NBA, plays the same style he played in college and everyone is shocked.

Fans are getting jumpy and getting amnesia. Everybody said it would take Ayton some time to realize his potential verses Luka being ready to play now. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED. Look, I get people getting all jittery about Ayton considering they passed on Luka but this is playing out exactly how the scouts said it would be in terms of how the players would play out of the gate. Luka has been more dominate than predicted sure but Ayton is developing how they said he would.

Ayton could easily develop from a 16/10 guy to 25/12 guy. That would be a phenomenal draft pick. He is never going to score 30 a night and the Suns don't need him to like the Mavs need Luka. My guess is he becomes something closer to 22/12 guy which to me is still a successful draft pick. I am not ready to panic on Ayton just yet. Fans just need to decide if waiting for Ayton to mature is a bigger risk or trading him for some other player that is a proven commodity.

One thing I have learned being a Phoenix sports fans is our teams love to trade guys who go on to light it up elsewhere. If we trade Ayton and he does better than I am predicting for example? Fans will bitch for the next 10 years how we traded "that guy"....again.

 

[CRC83]

Because a) you already passed on Luka. It's simply not worth ruminating over anymore. b) you gave up on your #1 pick, c) you get a player who, for all of his accolades, hasn't moved the meter much in Minnesota in terms of team success, and d) forfeited future assets.

If you're going to give up on Ayton now, which I think is premature, you need to find a bigger fish. I don't think one exists without completely obliterating the franchise, so the best course is to stay the course and use future picks and cap space to add talent around your core of Book, Ayton, and (maybe) Oubre.

If you don’t want to give up Ayton + a pick for KAT that is totally understandable. But still don’t understand how it would be worse than passing on Luka.

You stated that it would be worse than passing on Luka. Which means you feel that trading Ayton for KAT, assuming Ayton goes on to average 25+/12+, is worse than us picking Ayton over Luka.

But then you say it would be worse because we already passed on him and it’s not worth ruminating over? Huh? That’s a different statement.

 

[pokerface]

KAT may not be the answer but watching his game would be less frustrating than watching Ayton...who doesn't even get to the free throw line!!

 

[pokerface]

I remember the first time I watched Amare when he tried to dunk on three defenders. It didn't work but he was fearless and I got chills. Aytons first outing was jumper after jumper....now Ayton is a better shooter than Amare was but I want more attacking the rim like Amare used to.

 

[1Sun]

Hearing James Jones being interviewed on the Burns and Gambo show right now. He is beyond clueless. Examples include the statement "you play to score, not to get fouled" in response to questions regarding the need to feed Ayton in the post to get Ayton to the free throw line more, his suggestion that Ayton doesn't need to be more aggressive in order to be more effective, and his emphasis on players making their own independent determinations of what is needed in terms of crashing the boards or getting back on defense, rather than playing within any kind of system instituted by Monty.

The Suns' next big move HAS to be firing Jones and replacing him with a remotely competent GM.

 

[JerkFace]

Hearing James Jones being interviewed on the Burns and Gambo show right now. He is beyond clueless. Examples include the statement "you play to score, not to get fouled" in response to questions regarding the need to feed Ayton in the post to get Ayton to the free throw line more, his suggestion that Ayton doesn't need to be more aggressive in order to be more effective, and his emphasis on players making their own independent determinations of what is needed in terms of crashing the boards or getting back on defense, rather than playing within any kind of system instituted by Monty.

The Suns' next big move HAS to be firing Jones and replacing him with a remotely competent GM.

I plan on just ignoring your stupid takes, but when you try to pass along fake news I will call you out. Your ability to listen to an interview unbiasedly and then pass on the information is a joke.

 

[Covert Rain]

KAT may not be the answer but watching his game would be less frustrating than watching Ayton...who doesn't even get to the free throw line!!

They are playing different roles. KAT is asked to be the offense. Ayton is playing in the offense. There is a difference. Doesn't seem like a valid comparison. If Ayton was the first option on every play I bet he would get more trips. It's not his role. Although, I think we all agree he needs to be more aggressive.

 

[1Sun]

I plan on just ignoring your stupid takes, but when you try to pass along fake news I will call you out. Your ability to listen to an interview unbiasedly and then pass on the information is a joke.

If you can find a recording of the interview, post it and let the rest of the Board judge for itself.

 

[1Sun]

They are playing different roles. KAT is asked to be the offense. Ayton is playing in the offense. There is a difference. Doesn't seem like a valid comparison. If Ayton was the first option on every play I bet he would get more trips. It's not his role. Although, I think we all agree he needs to be more aggressive.

James Jones doesn't...at least based on what he just said on KTAR...