The sign of real problems

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
12,504
Reaction score
6,975
To me, the interesting result of this is next season becomes an absolute powder keg.
with Keim and Kliff going into the last years of their contracts, it will add an interesting dynamic. Moreso for Keim
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,278
Reaction score
2,786
Location
Holmdel, NJ
32 teams..Half of them well-coached or astutely managed.

They all can't make the playoffs...let alone Super Bowl...Then there's injuries and other visits by lady luck.

Every team can't win.

And so you fire the coach.

Now I have no problem changing regimes if the team is haunted by chronic "bad luck" or its gaze into the future repeatedly comes up a "brick wall. But we too often unnecessarily cast aside investment in plans, players, mgt/coaching talent and, most of all "time" in the hope of swallowing some sort of magical pill instead of "doing things the right way", rolling with the odds and occasionally "going long" with a gutsy decision.

The top dozen HC's are pretty danged impressive. The Cards appear to have one leg in and one leg out of this group.

While it would be cool to root for a chronic member of the Top 12, I think making change every 3 years is a high risk/low reward proposition.

in short - coach-up KK and get him to make needed changes in tactics before firing him.
 

KYCardFan

Veteran
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Posts
269
Reaction score
328
Location
Lexington KY
It dawned on me as I read the merry-go-round of posters posting the same thing over and over again in thread after thread how much a truly organization-wide issue exists with this team. It’s called Problems Everywhere.

We have vocal GROUPS of posters blaming our ills on:

Keim
Kliff
Vance
Bill Davis
Kyler
Our receivers
Our oline (and can’t even agree on who are the problems there)
Our d line
Our linebackers (and our coaches’ use or lack thereof of them)
Our cornerbacks
Injuries

And there are literally reasonable-to-very-good arguments being made about each and every one of these elements. And none of them are being made by just one poster diatribes. In other words, the Cardinals have effectively baffled an entire board of pretty knowledgeable, observant, interested fans if we can’t come close to at least a couple of consensus regarding the central issues.

Know what that tells me? Institutionwide issues. It’s likely a confluence of ALL of them to a degree that compound one and other. So the scary thing to me is that this likely isn’t just a matter of fixing one or two issues. Yes, doing so will improve the situation, but we’ll still be mired down by the gravity of those issues left unsolved. And yes, I know that the buck stops at Michael. But nothing is going to change there.

It’s a little maddening coming to this realization.
Implosion in 2022?
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
5,958
Reaction score
3,122
Location
Home of the Thunder
I think that means the answer is obvious.

One more year to figure it out. Plus if Kyler plays like ****, you could move on as well.

If it becomes clear that changing QBs is what's best for the long-term future of the franchise, then yes, we should move on from Murray. If he plays like **** next year, we should pass on the option year, and let him walk. Happy now?
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
5,958
Reaction score
3,122
Location
Home of the Thunder
I fear in this situation he would trade picks away for veterans, which is not a good idea medium long term

Hmmm... that is a very disconcerting thought juza, since desperate men do take desperate actions.

Let's hope Mike B. is keeping a close eye on Keim as we go through the most important offseaon in recent memory.
 
Last edited:

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
6,628
Reaction score
2,784
Location
SC
32 teams..Half of them well-coached or astutely managed.

They all can't make the playoffs...let alone Super Bowl...Then there's injuries and other visits by lady luck.

Every team can't win.

And so you fire the coach.

Now I have no problem changing regimes if the team is haunted by chronic "bad luck" or its gaze into the future repeatedly comes up a "brick wall. But we too often unnecessarily cast aside investment in plans, players, mgt/coaching talent and, most of all "time" in the hope of swallowing some sort of magical pill instead of "doing things the right way", rolling with the odds and occasionally "going long" with a gutsy decision.

The top dozen HC's are pretty danged impressive. The Cards appear to have one leg in and one leg out of this group.

While it would be cool to root for a chronic member of the Top 12, I think making change every 3 years is a high risk/low reward proposition.

in short - coach-up KK and get him to make needed changes in tactics before firing him.
Who's going to coach him up? Keim? His assistants?
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
5,541
Reaction score
3,619
Location
Avondale, AZ
Tough offseason coming up. They are over the cap by $800k+, could be handcuffed in FA pursuits without some restructuring, etc. and UFAs to consider along with the players they draft costs. Going to be juggling chainsaws for Mr. Keim I’m afraid. We will see if he’s up to the challenge.
 

bankybruce

All In!
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
17,676
Reaction score
3,862
Location
Portland, OR
I have come to the conclusion it's first Keim drafting poorly and then supplementing that with a heavy reliance on free agency... older players wear down late into the season and hence we start losing because of a lack of juice and depth

I read somewhere that Kiem is somewhat removed from FA signing aside from money and that it is Adrian Wilson doing and Kiem is more draft heavy. If that is true, then Kien brings no value and it's time to move on.

Take this with a grain of salt since it was on Twitter when talking about the Jacksonville job.
 

Morty

Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Posts
109
Reaction score
74
Location
MN
We are in a state of limbo. We are not Bad enough to blow it all up” but not good enough to go for the gold.
In reality we really won’t be competing for the Lombardi trophy next year. There are to many holes to fix.

No cap space. So we will be forced once again to signing one year prove it deals to injured or older players.
Even if we have an outstanding draft it will not come to fruition in 2022.

Keim is the problem and Bidwill is the enabler. That ain’t gonna change. We will be fed the same old lines as the new year begins.

Just imagine next season if instead of starting 7-0 we stumble out of the gate 2-5.

Next season is going to be ugly.
When was the last time the Cardinals "Blew it all up?" They seem adverse to this tactic. Perhaps this is an issue. Without developing a strong foundation the house keeps falling. It seems most good teams draft a couple of years of good to great players. They develop together with a coach and make a run for it. If the owner refuses to admit that there is a natural cycle of a team being up and down then you get folks working for him telling him what he wants to hear. Which results in hiring the wrong coach, drafting the wrong players, and signing the wrong free agents. Human nature is a complicated thing. We'd think that a rich owner set financially for generations would focus on paying top dollar on the best folks to manage his team. Following this logic you'd go after the best GM (best drafts over time) and best head coach (wins over time). It seems that instead the team is more focused on who the owner can trust and who will be loyal to the owner. It is a funny sport. Players, coaches, and management are under a microscope and help to a high level of accountability. The owner has absolutely no one to be accountable to. It would be interesting to look at how each owner handles this level of freedom. One the other hand, even if all the owners were making all the right chooses and all the GMs made all the right picks and all the coaches made the right calls your team would only win once ever 32 years!
 

82CardsGrad

7 x 70
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
34,531
Reaction score
5,552
Location
Scottsdale
It dawned on me as I read the merry-go-round of posters posting the same thing over and over again in thread after thread how much a truly organization-wide issue exists with this team. It’s called Problems Everywhere.

We have vocal GROUPS of posters blaming our ills on:

Keim
Kliff
Vance
Bill Davis
Kyler
Our receivers
Our oline (and can’t even agree on who are the problems there)
Our d line
Our linebackers (and our coaches’ use or lack thereof of them)
Our cornerbacks
Injuries

And there are literally reasonable-to-very-good arguments being made about each and every one of these elements. And none of them are being made by just one poster diatribes. In other words, the Cardinals have effectively baffled an entire board of pretty knowledgeable, observant, interested fans if we can’t come close to at least a couple of consensus regarding the central issues.

Know what that tells me? Institutionwide issues. It’s likely a confluence of ALL of them to a degree that compound one and other. So the scary thing to me is that this likely isn’t just a matter of fixing one or two issues. Yes, doing so will improve the situation, but we’ll still be mired down by the gravity of those issues left unsolved. And yes, I know that the buck stops at Michael. But nothing is going to change there.

It’s a little maddening coming to this realization.
I think it's fair to take a short look back in the rear-view mirror and ask:

- Were any of these concerns in place when BA was here?
- Did Wilks get a fair shot, or, was he caught-up in the wake of a draft of Rosen that was clearly a reach and huge mistake?
- And finally, did all, or most of our concerns surface with the hiring of Kliff? If we can objective here (which is a huge ask I know...), why in the world was Kliff hired? What was the basis of support that propelled Kliff to the front of the line?
- As a result of hiring a guy with zero resume to support being a NFL coach, I believe Keim and Mike B instinctively knew that they needed to be more "involved" than they would've been with, say a BA for example.
Kliff is floundering in waters WAY over his head. As a result, this team, as the board and now you have succinctly pointed out ad nauseum, is leaking water from stem to stern.
Yea... we won 11 games this past season. But yet another second half of the season collapse is the blaring alarm whistle signaling the harsh reality...the truth. The lack of meaningful development of Kyler Murray...Kirk... Simmons... Murphy... Collins(?)...
Keim tried to bring in vets to fill the void created by having a head coach who is drowning... But if you understand leadership dynamics, the reality is that the fish always rots at the head first... The head coach is the head of the fish. And it's rotten...
 

cardfaninfl

Demographically significant
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
1,010
Reaction score
131
Location
Beyond the sun.
in short - coach-up KK
Oh, ffs
One the other hand, even if all the owners were making all the right chooses and all the GMs made all the right picks and all the coaches made the right calls your team would only win once ever 32 years!
So, by that logic... they had to sabotage their turn on the cycle. TWICE.
- Did Wilks get a fair shot, or, was he caught-up in the wake of a draft of Rosen that was clearly a reach and huge mistake?
Who are you people?
 

DVontel

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
9,249
Reaction score
12,303
I think it's fair to take a short look back in the rear-view mirror and ask:

- Were any of these concerns in place when BA was here?
- Did Wilks get a fair shot, or, was he caught-up in the wake of a draft of Rosen that was clearly a reach and huge mistake?
- And finally, did all, or most of our concerns surface with the hiring of Kliff? If we can objective here (which is a huge ask I know...), why in the world was Kliff hired? What was the basis of support that propelled Kliff to the front of the line?
- As a result of hiring a guy with zero resume to support being a NFL coach, I believe Keim and Mike B instinctively knew that they needed to be more "involved" than they would've been with, say a BA for example.
Kliff is floundering in waters WAY over his head. As a result, this team, as the board and now you have succinctly pointed out ad nauseum, is leaking water from stem to stern.
Yea... we won 11 games this past season. But yet another second half of the season collapse is the blaring alarm whistle signaling the harsh reality...the truth. The lack of meaningful development of Kyler Murray...Kirk... Simmons... Murphy... Collins(?)...
Keim tried to bring in vets to fill the void created by having a head coach who is drowning... But if you understand leadership dynamics, the reality is that the fish always rots at the head first... The head coach is the head of the fish. And it's rotten...
Hold up. Are you really trying to absolve Keim of any blame?
 
Top