The Positive Kyler Murray News Thread

[CardNots]

I find the nattering nabobs of negativism to be tiring. Yes the Cardinals are likely to suck next year, but the process and growth matters more. I want to see Murray get back to early Murray and see him OWN this team.

Hope should not be blind

 

[Crimson Warrior]

no, with the way these qb’s are coming out, they are ready to play.

You could also draft a Big Ben over Larry Fitz (Harrison Jr) and say which one won a Super Bowl. If Caleb is that guy, you take him.

Idk now if Kyler has thar extra gear to be consistently great.

OMG Vacard... really?

You're really ready to gamble on a rookie QB, a completely unknown NFL quantity, vs. trying to build around Murray, who we know can win NFL games?

And what happens when Caleb Williams turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? What's the back up plan then? Tank for the "next big thing" at QB in the college ranks? And hope to be
competitive by 2032?

Murray doesn't deserve unlimited chances, I get that. But right now he has three good years of performance vs. one poor, with the latter coming at the hands of a failing HC and GM (and owner).

The empirical evidence suggests he's still our guy. The Cardinals just need to function like a normal NFL organization so that he can succeed, both of which I think are going to happen.

Pretty sure you're going to end up eating some crow, and don't worry, we're going to save your spot on the Murray bandwagon.

 

[schutd]

The empirical evidence suggests he's still our guy. The Cardinals just need to function like a normal NFL organization so that he can succeed, both of which I think are going to happen.

Pretty sure you're going to end up eating some crow, and don't worry, we're going to save your spot on the Murray bandwagon.

My biggest concern is, that even when Murray was performing at his best, and was exciting, and making throws, and dazzling us with his legs, he was still showing us his bad side on many occasions. An inability to win a clinching game for what, 4 straight weeks? I dont remember. The lack of pocket presence, regardless of his OL, the running for his life out of bounds for a loss plays instead of just throwing it away. While I would agree that many of those issues were not only correctable, but could in large part be blamed on the cast and scheme around him, as well as the expectation that he alone had to will the entire team to victory... but then he took such a huge step backward in everything from on field performance to off field presence, to showing a serious lack of leadership...

Man, hes got a long way to come back to just being the exciting guy with all the potential, but with obvious flaws. And unfortunately, we need him to grow well beyond that. Its a lot to ask of the dude. Here's hoping...

 

[Crimson Warrior]

My biggest concern is, that even when Murray was performing at his best, and was exciting, and making throws, and dazzling us with his legs, he was still showing us his bad side on many occasions. An inability to win a clinching game for what, 4 straight weeks? I dont remember. The lack of pocket presence, regardless of his OL, the running for his life out of bounds for a loss plays instead of just throwing it away. While I would agree that many of those issues were not only correctable, but could in large part be blamed on the cast and scheme around him, as well as the expectation that he alone had to will the entire team to victory... but then he took such a huge step backward in everything from on field performance to off field presence, to showing a serious lack of leadership...

Man, hes got a long way to come back to just being the exciting guy with all the potential, but with obvious flaws. And unfortunately, we need him to grow well beyond that. Its a lot to ask of the dude. Here's hoping...

I'm actually on the same page with you schutd (origin story for your name please!). Big, concerning, you're-not-our-QBOF-if-you-play-like-that step backward last year.

Neither will I argue about that K1 has not checked the box for being able to win the big game.

He has a lot left to prove.

The only thing I would hope for from you and the rest of the board is to not expect Murray to be some kind of demi-god at the QB position. Yes, he needs to make big plays in big moments. But, if he's posting a QB ratings of 100, 105, 110, etc. (including in the first half of games), then we have to ask ourselves, is that good enough, and if we replace him, are we really going to win more games? Contex... I get it... but generally let's focus on his overall performance during a game vs. one missed throw in the fourth quarter.

 

[football karma]

as a Cardinal fan: the fastest path back to relevance, contending for a playoff spot, winning playoff games is K1 returning to early to mid 2021 form.

if Kyler flames out next year, or shows no hope -- then the team has to take a QB early -

but hoping for that is hoping for 4 years to relevance with no guarantee that the successor will be any better

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am optimistic that Kyler will be much better in 2023/24 because of the intrinsic pain it will cause us and the franchise if we get the 9th pick.

Really hope he does come back to the QB of 18 months ago. But I fear the extra weight he has put on is a detriment more than a protector.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I am optimistic that Kyler will be much better in 2023/24 because of the intrinsic pain it will cause us and the franchise if we get the 9th pick.

Really hope he does come back to the QB of 18 months ago. But I fear the extra weight he has put on is a detriment more than a protector.

I know a lot of fans want the first pick, but wouldn't it be great for the Cardinals to actually exceed expectations. It's not probable, but it is possible.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I know a lot of fans want the first pick, but wouldn't it be great for the Cardinals to actually exceed expectations. It's not probable, but it is possible.

Honest answer? If we look great but lose a lot with single digit point margins? Probably yes. If we win 6 games and get stuck in the mediocrity middle? I'm not so sure. My hope is that Kyler looks great but we are just not deep or talented enough elsewhere to win close games.

Also..... I'm not sold on Caleb either. But I LOVE Verse, Harrison, Turner and a few others.

 

[oaken1]

I'm actually on the same page with you schutd (origin story for your name please!). Big, concerning, you're-not-our-QBOF-if-you-play-like-that step backward last year.

Neither will I argue about that K1 has not checked the box for being able to win the big game.

He has a lot left to prove.

The only thing I would hope for from you and the rest of the board is to not expect Murray to be some kind of demi-god at the QB position. Yes, he needs to make big plays in big moments. But, if he's posting a QB ratings of 100, 105, 110, etc. (including in the first half of games), then we have to ask ourselves, is that good enough, and if we replace him, are we really going to win more games? Contex... I get it... but generally let's focus on his overall performance during a game vs. one missed throw in the fourth quarter.

I dont know the origin of @schutd 's name... but it always makes me think of Vision Quest... an old movie where Matthew Modine was a high school wrestler aiming for the defending state champion in his senior year...a scarey beefy dude named Shute.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Honest answer? If we look great but lose a lot with single digit point margins? Probably yes. If we win 6 games and get stuck in the mediocrity middle? I'm not so sure. My hope is that Kyler looks great but we are just not deep or talented enough elsewhere to win close games.

Also..... I'm not sold on Caleb either. But I LOVE Verse, Harrison, Turner and a few others.

I'm a Verse fan. He is going to be a double digit sacks guy for a decade.

Even if the Cardinals missed out on Harrison and landed Egbuka, Id be happy.

 

[schutd]

I'm actually on the same page with you schutd (origin story for your name please!). Big, concerning, you're-not-our-QBOF-if-you-play-like-that step backward last year.

Neither will I argue about that K1 has not checked the box for being able to win the big game.

He has a lot left to prove.

The only thing I would hope for from you and the rest of the board is to not expect Murray to be some kind of demi-god at the QB position. Yes, he needs to make big plays in big moments. But, if he's posting a QB ratings of 100, 105, 110, etc. (including in the first half of games), then we have to ask ourselves, is that good enough, and if we replace him, are we really going to win more games? Contex... I get it... but generally let's focus on his overall performance during a game vs. one missed throw in the fourth quarter.

Not a great origin story. It was my lotus notes login while I was working for IBM doing server support. Was a desk jockey, used to get to post a bunch more. Mostly Suns back then.

 

[Stout]

OMG Vacard... really?

You're really ready to gamble on a rookie QB, a completely unknown NFL quantity, vs. trying to build around Murray, who we know can win NFL games?

And what happens when Caleb Williams turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? What's the back up plan then? Tank for the "next big thing" at QB in the college ranks? And hope to be
competitive by 2032?

Murray doesn't deserve unlimited chances, I get that. But right now he has three good years of performance vs. one poor, with the latter coming at the hands of a failing HC and GM (and owner).

The empirical evidence suggests he's still our guy. The Cardinals just need to function like a normal NFL organization so that he can succeed, both of which I think are going to happen.

Pretty sure you're going to end up eating some crow, and don't worry, we're going to save your spot on the Murray bandwagon.

Wow, no. Hard disagree. KM has had parts of three good years and we don't know he can win enough games, nothing more. Lack of durability is impossible to ignore. And what happens when KM turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? KM is faaaaaaaaaaar from a sure thing. It sounds like he's changed his attitude, but even if--and it's a big if--that translates to his approach to the game, that still doesn't mean he'll come good. Only time will tell. If he doesn't come back like gangbusters, which will be difficult for him to do, granted, there's every possibility he will be replaced in the draft. He doesn't have a lot of time to reclaim his career here.

 

[BritCard]

I’m a big Kyler fan but now I want Caleb.

Monti has put us in a good position. If Kyler doesn't play well, doesn't lead, struggles with the playbook etc we can move on.

If he's good we can draft good players.

 

[BritCard]

I know a lot of fans want the first pick, but wouldn't it be great for the Cardinals to actually exceed expectations. It's not probable, but it is possible.

To exceed expectations Kyler would have to be very good. In which case we font need a top 3 pick. It's win - win.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Wow, no. Hard disagree. KM has had parts of three good years and we don't know he can win enough games, nothing more. Lack of durability is impossible to ignore. And what happens when KM turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? KM is faaaaaaaaaaar from a sure thing. It sounds like he's changed his attitude, but even if--and it's a big if--that translates to his approach to the game, that still doesn't mean he'll come good. Only time will tell. If he doesn't come back like gangbusters, which will be difficult for him to do, granted, there's every possibility he will be replaced in the draft. He doesn't have a lot of time to reclaim his career here.

So many bad habits for him to break along with learning how to read a defense

It's a monumental task and will require much studying and learning

It is possible? Yes

Is he willing to put in the work? We'll see

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not a great origin story. It was my lotus notes login while I was working for IBM doing server support. Was a desk jockey, used to get to post a bunch more. Mostly Suns back then.

Lotus notes.. wow... you go back a ways Thanks for sharing with the group !

 

[Dr. Jones]

Lotus notes.. wow... you go back a ways Thanks for sharing with the group !

I thought the same thing. haha

Haven't used it since 2002.

 

[schutd]

I thought the same thing. haha

Haven't used it since 2002.

See my join date???

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Wow, no. Hard disagree. KM has had parts of three good years and we don't know he can win enough games, nothing more. Lack of durability is impossible to ignore. And what happens when KM turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? KM is faaaaaaaaaaar from a sure thing. It sounds like he's changed his attitude, but even if--and it's a big if--that translates to his approach to the game, that still doesn't mean he'll come good. Only time will tell. If he doesn't come back like gangbusters, which will be difficult for him to do, granted, there's every possibility he will be replaced in the draft. He doesn't have a lot of time to reclaim his career here.

Here's my reasoning Stout:

Year 1 - OROY
Year 2 = 94 QB rating for the entire season
Year 3 = 100 QB rating for the entire season

I'm looking at each year in terms of overall production. Further, I would say that if your QB posts a 100 QB rating over the entire season, he's pulling his weight in terms of winning a championship, and maybe you need to look at other parts of your team to improve before you move on from him.

But again, I get the "context", "injury" and "big game" caveats. I think durability and being clutch are especially important, and so for example if you want to say his 2nd season was not good because we missed the playoffs at the end, and also that Murray was primarily responsible for that season's failure, okay, I'm not going to belabor the point.

Give you the last word if you want it my man, and hope you're hanging in there up there steelers territory.

 

[Zalixar]

Here's my reasoning Stout:

Year 1 - OROY
Year 2 = 94 QB rating for the entire season
Year 3 = 100 QB rating for the entire season

I'm looking at each year in terms of overall production. Further, I would say that if your QB posts a 100 QB rating over the entire season, he's pulling his weight in terms of winning a championship, and maybe you need to look at other parts of your team to improve before you move on from him.

But again, I get the "context", "injury" and "big game" caveats. I think durability and being clutch are especially important, and so for example if you want to say his 2nd season was not good because we missed the playoffs at the end, and also that Murray was primarily responsible for that season's failure, okay, I'm not going to belabor the point.

Give you the last word if you want it my man, and hope you're hanging in there up there steelers territory.

KM has been pretty good, stats wise still tell a different story than his actual play that accounts of how the seasons went. He also gets injured every season. He is also not a "proven commodity," other than he's not a JaMarcus Russell or anything.

It's not just moving on from KM, it's that this next draxt is has great potential AND we have a great chance of getting top 1st round picks (that's probably never going to happen again) AND Murray coming off a major injury and won't see the field for a majority of the season to truly evaluate where he is AND a regime change.

The new QB and will be on a rookie contract (although 1 extra year will be tied to KM), then it's just the risk of keeping KM and never having this type of draft capital/position, and since he STILL will have questions marks at the end of year 5, you have to reset it if you get the chance, otherwise KM could not work out and who knows when we will be in this draft position again with whatever talent comes in at that time, which if the regime misses, we could be resetting again in a couple years and it would be putting all your chips on KM. He hasn't had ONE solid full season, he's has great portions of some, good portions of some, and junk in-between.

It just doesn't really make sense to bet on KM at the crossroads coming up. I mean if we don't get high picks, then I would be hesitant on trading a bunch up to grab a QB sure, but if we are right there then I think you gotta make the change and salvage what you can from KM.

He's not proven that he's elite, and he can hang in the top 10 at times and top 5 at even lesser times, but I say give the new regime an opportunity to get their guy and clear out the Keim era once and for all

 

[Shane]

Why he in a hospital bed or is he posting an old pic?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[DVontel]

Why he in a hospital bed or is he posting an old pic?

You must be registered for see images attach

Old pic.

Showing/admiring his mother because it’s Mother’s Day.

 

[Shane]

Old pic.

Showing/admiring his mother because it’s Mother’s Day.

Ahhh gotcha

 

[oaken1]

Wow, no. Hard disagree. KM has had parts of three good years and we don't know he can win enough games, nothing more. Lack of durability is impossible to ignore. And what happens when KM turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? KM is faaaaaaaaaaar from a sure thing. It sounds like he's changed his attitude, but even if--and it's a big if--that translates to his approach to the game, that still doesn't mean he'll come good. Only time will tell. If he doesn't come back like gangbusters, which will be difficult for him to do, granted, there's every possibility he will be replaced in the draft. He doesn't have a lot of time to reclaim his career here.

not to mention, he can play great when he comes back and we still wont find out if he will still crumble in big games

 

[QuebecCard]

Wow, no. Hard disagree. KM has had parts of three good years and we don't know he can win enough games, nothing more. Lack of durability is impossible to ignore. And what happens when KM turns out to be more Baker Mayfield than Patrick Mahomes? KM is faaaaaaaaaaar from a sure thing. It sounds like he's changed his attitude, but even if--and it's a big if--that translates to his approach to the game, that still doesn't mean he'll come good. Only time will tell. If he doesn't come back like gangbusters, which will be difficult for him to do, granted, there's every possibility he will be replaced in the draft. He doesn't have a lot of time to reclaim his career here.

IF...