The Official US Soccer thread

[Russ Smith]

I think it’s pretty simple at the end of the day. The average American sports fan or athlete only cares about the World Cup every four years. To be a World Cup winner, football has to be your entire life, everyday. Even then look at Brazil and Germany. Hell look at Belgium. It’s hard to win a World Cup. Soccer in the USA has to be as accessible as basketball and American football. But even those sports cater to the wealthy, but they are accessible to everyone. it’s similar in Europe, but they have decades upon decades of precedent and development that we don’t have here. I look at high school and college football in Texas. It’s a religion and people care about it more than they care about the NFL. That is how football is in England. Every town and village has a football team and the care.

A big part IMO is the money. To be in travel ball year round where the top US players typically develop, you need money. NBA, NFL, most of the top prospects come from less money not more. The world powers in Futbol the kids grow up playing soccer and only get organized as they get older and are identified as prospects. The kids who wind up being Mbappe in oher countries they don't end up in soccer in the US they end up playing football or basketball.

Yesterday Chris Sullivan posted something on FB that brought back memories it was a 7th gade interview he did at Hyde Junior High whee his football coach said the big question for Chris will be picking a sport, he's at his age elite in football, basketball, soccer and baseball, at some point he'll have to pick one. He eventually picked soccer and wound up playing for the US MNT bu he's an outlier most of them then and now don't pick soccer

Our nieces all grew up playing soccer, the youngesst went all in the elite travel roster, Junior Olympic developmental squad etc. To do that she had to quit gynmastics because her paents didn't have the time or the money for her to do both. One of the leagues she played in the people who ran it got arrested for stealing tens of thousands of dollars, they all made 6 figures which in Sacramento is unusual. Much of the US soccer machine isn't about soccer it's about making money for the people in charge, the US has to fix that so the best athletes can afford to do what Chris Sullivan did and choose soccer.

 

[cardpa]

A big part IMO is the money. To be in travel ball year round where the top US players typically develop, you need money. NBA, NFL, most of the top prospects come from less money not more. The world powers in Futbol the kids grow up playing soccer and only get organized as they get older and are identified as prospects. The kids who wind up being Mbappe in oher countries they don't end up in soccer in the US they end up playing football or basketball.

Yesterday Chris Sullivan posted something on FB that brought back memories it was a 7th gade interview he did at Hyde Junior High whee his football coach said the big question for Chris will be picking a sport, he's at his age elite in football, basketball, soccer and baseball, at some point he'll have to pick one. He eventually picked soccer and wound up playing for the US MNT bu he's an outlier most of them then and now don't pick soccer

Our nieces all grew up playing soccer, the youngest went all in the elite travel roster, Junior Olympic developmental squad etc. To do that she had to quit gynmastics because her paents didn't have the time or the money for her to do both. One of the leagues she played in the people who ran it got arrested for stealing tens of thousands of dollars, they all made 6 figures which in Sacramento is unusual. Much of the US soccer machine isn't about soccer it's about making money for the people in charge, the US has to fix that so the best athletes can afford to do what Chris Sullivan did and choose soccer.

When my children played back in the 90s, almost every town had a intramural and a club soccer program. My costs were a small fee $25-$35 for helping keep maintenance on fields and nets and the cost of the uniform. That was it. Most coached were volunteer and some clubs had one higher level soccer player who helped run the program and got paid a few thousand to provide that service. There was a area league where teams from different towns would play, in our case the CPYSL (Central Pennsylvania Youth Soccer League). Parents drove kids to the games if they were away games. If a team wanted to participate in local tournaments, the team had to raise funds for the entry fee. Most tournaments were at most 1-1/2 hours way so no need to get lodging.

I myself got invested in soccer and started to not only self teach but started to attend classes to obtain coaching licenses per the USSF. Starting with an "F" license and I worked up to a National "D" license. The "D" license required 32 hours of training so a few of us got together from a couple different clubs and drove each week to attend the sessions until we met the required hours. I also trained under a Brazilian "A" license coach who did it for free for me. In return I helped him with scheduling referees for his indoor soccer facility.

I eventually applied to coach school soccer and did high school boys and girls as well as middle school boys and girls. The pay was not a deciding factor as it was quite little for the number of hours I had to commit to. Trust me a $2,500 stipend for three months comes out to a few bucks an hour especially when you are coaching five days a week and traveling sometimes over an hour each way for games. Doing this I moved away from club ball. I coached because I enjoyed working with the kids and there were rewards non soccer that stayed with you forever such as a middle school girl coming back to you in her senior year asking me to help her select a college to go to and players calling out to you years later at a mall where they were working because they wanted to talk to you. Players regularly visiting you after they moved on at your practice just to chat.

Now years later I see ads all the time from soccer clubs looking for players to join and advertising professional soccer coaches and training and how they are going to make your child elite and the fees are out of sight. It appears that these local town clubs have fell by the wayside and no longer exist. Pay for clubs have taken over the landscape of soccer with the emphasis on winning.

 

[Russ Smith]

Pulisic had a bone bruise and a microfracture in his right leg suffered against Belgium. He tried to play on it for several minutes but could not go.

So I guess it wasn't the existing calf injury. Really hope he gets healthy and gets a chance to make one more run for the US in 2030. He's had injuries off and on for a few years now though

 

[Lorenzo]

Pulisic had a bone bruise and a microfracture in his right leg suffered against Belgium. He tried to play on it for several minutes but could not go.

So I guess it wasn't the existing calf injury. Really hope he gets healthy and gets a chance to make one more run for the US in 2030. He's had injuries off and on for a few years now though

same, I'd be surprised if he wasn't on the 2030 team, assuming he's healthy. If he's not, that means we got some younger more talented people developed and that's a good thing. Christian might need to consider moving to MLS to prolong his career. European clubs put their players through the ringer on the training pitches. and I think Christian is struggling to balance his club career and his national team career. The latter is something that most USA soccer pundits cannot relate to regardless of their experience. Pulisic already has a lot of miles on him for a guy his age.

 

[Lorenzo]

A big part IMO is the money. To be in travel ball year round where the top US players typically develop, you need money. NBA, NFL, most of the top prospects come from less money not more. The world powers in Futbol the kids grow up playing soccer and only get organized as they get older and are identified as prospects. The kids who wind up being Mbappe in oher countries they don't end up in soccer in the US they end up playing football or basketball.

Yesterday Chris Sullivan posted something on FB that brought back memories it was a 7th gade interview he did at Hyde Junior High whee his football coach said the big question for Chris will be picking a sport, he's at his age elite in football, basketball, soccer and baseball, at some point he'll have to pick one. He eventually picked soccer and wound up playing for the US MNT bu he's an outlier most of them then and now don't pick soccer

Our nieces all grew up playing soccer, the youngesst went all in the elite travel roster, Junior Olympic developmental squad etc. To do that she had to quit gynmastics because her paents didn't have the time or the money for her to do both. One of the leagues she played in the people who ran it got arrested for stealing tens of thousands of dollars, they all made 6 figures which in Sacramento is unusual. Much of the US soccer machine isn't about soccer it's about making money for the people in charge, the US has to fix that so the best athletes can afford to do what Chris Sullivan did and choose soccer.

absolutely, and my concern is how does US Soccer market and reach more kids to expand their reach? How do they market to those kids who can't afford to play on a team, but will play on their own or with their friends? Like basketball, I feel like kids will play basketball and football regardless of their wealth. IDK the answer. I do see the side where a good player will get recruited to a pay for play team or get left out and give up if they don't have money.

I feel like the World Cup is a great marketing tool that reaches beyond the norm due to national pride, but it only happens every four years. I feel like the country gets jazzed up for soccer every world cup, but then that energy goes away. It's great that Europe has big time football, but if you are not a big-time soccer person, you don't care about Europe, and you probably don't care about MLS. I'm a huge soccer fan and I don't watch MLS. just never got into it, especially after watching the premier league and champions league.

 

[cardpa]

absolutely, and my concern is how does US Soccer market and reach more kids to expand their reach? How do they market to those kids who can't afford to play on a team, but will play on their own or with their friends? Like basketball, I feel like kids will play basketball and football regardless of their wealth. IDK the answer. I do see the side where a good player will get recruited to a pay for play team or get left out and give up if they don't have money.

I feel like the World Cup is a great marketing tool that reaches beyond the norm due to national pride, but it only happens every four years. I feel like the country gets jazzed up for soccer every world cup, but then that energy goes away. It's great that Europe has big time football, but if you are not a big-time soccer person, you don't care about Europe, and you probably don't care about MLS. I'm a huge soccer fan and I don't watch MLS. just never got into it, especially after watching the premier league and champions league.

So thinking about this, is part of the problem the breath and width of the US compared to other countries in that the search for talent is restricted to certain areas of the country or hotbeds of soccer, take St. Louis for example considered a hotbed of soccer so scouting is focused there and other areas of the country are ignored. Other countries are a fraction of the size of the US. For example the final four teams have a population of 50-60 million. The US, 350 million, six to seven times of those other countries. Is the problem the USSF program just doesn't reach out far enough to include areas where soccer programs are not highly paid clubs or areas of wealth?

It's so hard to believe that out of 350 million people. we can't field a team that has the requisite skills and talent to compete at the international level. Does the USSF even have anything like open tryouts on a regular basis or is it a closed organization that only favors programs that receive exposure at national levels? I know there are tournaments every year that clubs attend or are invited to so players are there to be evaluated, however these are clubs that are supported by tons of money and/or have connections inside the USSF. Are we dealing with an old boys club?

I know when I coached in the Keystone games (the Pa. equivalent of Olympics statewide) we would get coaches from colleges coming to it looking for talent so I had to be sure I had info on all my players in case a coach approached me with interest in a player. However the players I coached were from a large area of the region I coached in so we generally had some pretty talent on those teams. Rarely did I ever see a college coach come to a high school game unless it was from a local college usually Division 3.

 

[Stout]

same, I'd be surprised if he wasn't on the 2030 team, assuming he's healthy. If he's not, that means we got some younger more talented people developed and that's a good thing. Christian might need to consider moving to MLS to prolong his career. European clubs put their players through the ringer on the training pitches. and I think Christian is struggling to balance his club career and his national team career. The latter is something that most USA soccer pundits cannot relate to regardless of their experience. Pulisic already has a lot of miles on him for a guy his age.

Unless he quits quitting and doesn't skip major tournaments, I don't want anything to do with him. We had enough rot with players thinking they could do whatever they wanted and be guaranteed starters. Bottom line? He busts his gut for his country between now and next WC or he shouldn't come back.

 

[Lorenzo]

Bottom line? He busts his gut for his country between now and next WC or he shouldn't come back.

that’s a scenario I think everyone wants. I don’t have a problem with the national team moving on from him if he doesn’t deserve to be there. I agree that we have to stop handing out selections. That’s part of the culture problem that we’ve always had and it’s the reason we missed 2018.

My point is more to acknowledge that pulisc has put a lot of emphasis on being relevant at his champions league level club teams and that’s something that the older class of US players can’t understand. I think now pulisic will have to make careful decisions about his health if he wants to remain relevant and available for the national team.

 

[Lorenzo]

So thinking about this, is part of the problem the breath and width of the US compared to other countries in that the search for talent is restricted to certain areas of the country or hotbeds of soccer, take St. Louis for example considered a hotbed of soccer so scouting is focused there and other areas of the country are ignored. Other countries are a fraction of the size of the US. For example the final four teams have a population of 50-60 million. The US, 350 million, six to seven times of those other countries. Is the problem the USSF program just doesn't reach out far enough to include areas where soccer programs are not highly paid clubs or areas of wealth?

It's so hard to believe that out of 350 million people. we can't field a team that has the requisite skills and talent to compete at the international level. Does the USSF even have anything like open tryouts on a regular basis or is it a closed organization that only favors programs that receive exposure at national levels? I know there are tournaments every year that clubs attend or are invited to so players are there to be evaluated, however these are clubs that are supported by tons of money and/or have connections inside the USSF. Are we dealing with an old boys club?

I know when I coached in the Keystone games (the Pa. equivalent of Olympics statewide) we would get coaches from colleges coming to it looking for talent so I had to be sure I had info on all my players in case a coach approached me with interest in a player. However the players I coached were from a large area of the region I coached in so we generally had some pretty talent on those teams. Rarely did I ever see a college coach come to a high school game unless it was from a local college usually Division 3.

Good post. The more I read and talk about it, the deeper it gets. I don’t think there is an answer to the problem. There are probably many solutions to multiple problems that can improve our national team. But one of the most important things is to keep our expectations real. We should be good enough to make the final 8. That would be a great goal to have. From there, we should lean in on our vast and diverse heritage. How do we do that? I don’t know. Maybe break it down to regional level and beyond to focus on every corner of the country. Even that sounds like fantasy though at this point.

 

[ajcardfan]

Good post. The more I read and talk about it, the deeper it gets. I don’t think there is an answer to the problem. There are probably many solutions to multiple problems that can improve our national team. But one of the most important things is to keep our expectations real. We should be good enough to make the final 8. That would be a great goal to have. From there, we should lean in on our vast and diverse heritage. How do we do that? I don’t know. Maybe break it down to regional level and beyond to focus on every corner of the country. Even that sounds like fantasy though at this point.

I have read that the USA will never reach that upper level until it fundamentally changes it's approach to youth soccer. Right now, with our club system, it's "pay to play" and that of course eliminates a large swath of the population immediately. Also, when parents are paying for club sports, the coaches have to keep the parents happy to keep their gig. That means our youth tend to get coddled rather than coached.

It all made sense to me.

 

[Lorenzo]

I have read that the USA will never reach that upper level until it fundamentally changes it's approach to youth soccer. Right now, with our club system, it's "pay to play" and that of course eliminates a large swath of the population immediately. Also, when parents are paying for club sports, the coaches have to keep the parents happy to keep their gig. That means our youth tend to get coddled rather than coached.

It all made sense to me.

yeah, we've been hearing that for several years now and it is happening in multiple sports. I'm not sure how that changes to be honest. We seem to be going more in the other direction. So, my question is more along the lines of how we make soccer more accessible to potential athletes that are able to excel at the sport. If I knew the answer I would probably try to get involved in that process because I love the sport. I love that it brings the world together. Maybe as I get older, I just accept who we are as a nation and enjoy it for what it is.

On a lighter note, Landon Donovan has vowed to take this on. So when he's done with his armchair podcast maybe he will change the system.

 

[jbjarko]

Good article about youth sports in America vs Norway.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/soccer/erling-haaland-norway-world-cup-youth-sports-532edab4?mod=author_content_page_1_pos_2

 

[Yuma]

Good article on the pay for play system for soccer youth in America versus the Club Systems in other parts of the world:

US must learn to navigate its pay-for-play world to find a pipeline to World Cup competitiveness - Arizona Sports

America’s early departure from the 2026 World Cup raised a question that arises every four years: What would it take to produce a global soccer superpower in the United States?

arizonasports.com

At the end of the article, they talk about a kid who was scouted at a local part and entered into a club system. They conjectured on how many kids are never discovered. I know in rural areas this is huge. I lived in Yuma when my two boys were born. They played parks and rec, school sports, etc. My oldest was 6 years old and I brought him to a Dbacks game. They used to have a batting cage type set up with marks on the wall for single, double, triple, and home run. My son was just jacking home run after home run. A couple adults walked over and asked what part of Phoenix did we live in. I told them we were visiting from Yuma. One said, "too bad." I asked why, and he said both he and the other guy were coaches for local baseball teams. They were there looking to poach talent. It's just way different in rural towns. When guys pick little league teams, they just guess based on maybe knowing if the parents were athletic, or draft friends and families kids. Plus, most are just parents, that never played baseball, but they needed x amount of teams and reached out to people to coach. I often wonder if my son had grown up in Phoenix, could he have got a college scholarship or something out of baseball. Then we moved to rural Nevada. It was even worse for youth baseball. LMAO. It's a miracle that Matt Williams came out of Carson City, Nevada!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yeah you really have to be a top 5 team to sniff the World Cup trophy. Everyone outside of those elite squads are far away. We are definitely a long ways out and may never win it. One thing that we don’t have is an elite player. We have good players, but to lift a trophy you need great players and at least one or two legends.

We lost to a team that's not even top 5 in Europe.