The Future Is Still "Bright"

[KingLouieLouie]

The Spurs are going to be the team to beat for the next 4 years - however, that doesn't mean the future isn't blindingly bright for us. We're gonna be going to war with that team every year from here on out - but with their guys just rounding into their prime (Duncan and Ginboli) and Parker seemingly getting better every year, to say that they are almost finished is giving them way too little credit - especially with the way they've been able to draft and make trades throughout the years.

Okay... I'll somewhat concede to a point that the Spurs will still be force (but one the Suns will surpass in the process ala how the Pistons eventually overtook the Celtics...also ala how the Bulls finally solved the Pistons).....

Although...I know/bet we have/will agree on the following:

This isn't a "win now or never" type of year for the Suns especially with all of their upside....

I want someone to elaborate for me (perhaps it's been discussed a lot before) on the topic of why the Suns immediately declined after the '92-'93 season (I began discussing it, but again I was a "casual" observer of the Suns back then)..... Also, to compare the long-term potential the current Suns squad have over how the '92-'93 Suns were pretty much beyond their peak then...

 

[jibikao]

Okay... I'll somewhat concede to a point that the Spurs will still be force (but one the Suns will surpass in the process ala how the Pistons eventually overtook the Celtics...also ala how the Bulls finally solved the Pistons).....

Although...I know/bet we have/will agree on the following:

This isn't a "win now or never" type of year for the Suns especially with all of their upside....

I want someone to elaborate for me (perhaps it's been discussed a lot before) on the topic of why the Suns immediately declined after the '92-'93 season (I began discussing it, but again I was a "casual" observer of the Suns back then)..... Also, to compare the long-term potential the current Suns squad have over how the '92-'93 Suns were pretty much beyond their peak then...

I hope I am as optimistic as you are. You can calculate how good a team is based on this year's performance and how the players progress but INJURIES will never let you have everything. Trust me on that.

Had Grant Hill stayed healthy, who knows maybe Grant Hill and T-MAC could create a dynasty there. And what about Alan Houston? Penny?? Hello, you guys should know about Penny's story. Isn't that a lesson Suns should learn from?

If the opportunity is there for you to grab, give EVERYTHING you've got and stop relying on "well, we'll be better next season". That's the moral of Jim Jackson's story. Blazer never recovered from losing to Spurs in WCF because they thought they could do it next year. It never happened afterwards.

We are in WCF now. When is the last time Suns' been to WCF? I hope JJ realizes this and gives everything he's got to help the team win. Offensively, we can rely on Nash/Amare but we need his defense to guard Parker/Manu. At least stop their hot shooting in the 4th quarter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay... I'll somewhat concede to a point that the Spurs will still be force (but one the Suns will surpass in the process ala how the Pistons eventually overtook the Celtics...also ala how the Bulls finally solved the Pistons).....

Although...I know/bet we have/will agree on the following:

This isn't a "win now or never" type of year for the Suns especially with all of their upside....

I want someone to elaborate for me (perhaps it's been discussed a lot before) on the topic of why the Suns immediately declined after the '92-'93 season (I began discussing it, but again I was a "casual" observer of the Suns back then)..... Also, to compare the long-term potential the current Suns squad have over how the '92-'93 Suns were pretty much beyond their peak then...

I agree with everything except for the "Decline" of the Suns after 92-93. In 1994, KJ and Bark were both out for extended stretches (the season where Socks and Ced really stepped up) and we WERE the odds on favorite after Seattle got dumped in the first round. I remember hearing about KJ and Barkley running around the Summit after Deke blocked Seattle out of the playoffs. We then took a 2-0 lead in Houston and then choked that series away - Bark's back killed him in that series and he almost retired after that. The next year - we were the best team in the league at 36-10 until Manning went down with a torn ACL but we STILL won the Pacific and won 59 games and AGAIN had Houston down - this time 3-1 - then Barkley blew those two FTs, got injured in Game 6 and then Elie for 3. After that, the Suns made the disasterous trade for Hot Rod - leaving them with only shooter (Person - should have at least kept Ainge - the guy did score 21 in Game 7 against Houston) and from there on in age crept up to us. Our window passed and it was time to rebuild.

That's what happened to the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

When healthy, the Suns team of 93-94 and 94-95 was the best in the league.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When healthy, the Suns team of 93-94 and 94-95 was the best in the league.

yup - best team to never win a title.

 

[jibikao]

I agree with everything except for the "Decline" of the Suns after 92-93. In 1994, KJ and Bark were both out for extended stretches (the season where Socks and Ced really stepped up) and we WERE the odds on favorite after Seattle got dumped in the first round. I remember hearing about KJ and Barkley running around the Summit after Deke blocked Seattle out of the playoffs. We then took a 2-0 lead in Houston and then choked that series away - Bark's back killed him in that series and he almost retired after that. The next year - we were the best team in the league at 36-10 until Manning went down with a torn ACL but we STILL won the Pacific and won 59 games and AGAIN had Houston down - this time 3-1 - then Barkley blew those two FTs, got injured in Game 6 and then Elie for 3. After that, the Suns made the disasterous trade for Hot Rod - leaving them with only shooter (Person - should have at least kept Ainge - the guy did score 21 in Game 7 against Houston) and from there on in age crept up to us. Our window passed and it was time to rebuild.

That's what happened to the Suns.

Nice story.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nice story.

actually that story sucked. A ncie story would have been - The Suns were healthy, didn't choke and won two titles in MJ's absence.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I didn't want to bump this thread until the Suns were officially eliminated since (even with a remote chance the Suns could have overcome a 0-2 deficit and I know there were many who didnt want to reflect on the long-term future, but now down 0-3 the reality should be completely setting in).....

Anyways... I cant figure out why some are suggesting/demanding that Suns suddenly "implode" their roster.. make drastic changes to the team out of desperation.......

If they resorted to that...then you're beginning to "destroy" the foundation/nucleus they already have in place... Imagine the furor it would cause as well... Also, it would signify that the Suns dont have a "set-direction" in place and several of their "key-players" (like Amare and Nash) would question whether or not the Suns in fact have a plan in place or simply just respond out of impulse/panic.....

They need to add a physical player to come off the bench... An "enforcer" type... Someone who would commit "hard-fouls" (not a "goon" mind you) but a player that would make their opponents reluctant to "go after" the likes of Amare, Nash, and Marion by constantly "assaulting" them... Maybe a "Rick Mahorn" type...Someone who would "do the dirty work"... You obviously dont want your "top players" to fulfill that type of role because of risk of injury or foul trouble.....

They also need someone who has actually won an NBA title (not just suggesting some "bench-warmer" from that championship title team) that his winning attitude/mentality would "rub-off"....He would show them his ring constantly for motivational purposes and be able to tell them "what it takes" and having the experiece/rewards of being there (especially if he played a major role)....

I was initially against the McCarty trade at the time the deal was made... True, they didnt sacrifice much to acquire him, but why another finese player is what I questioned now and still am? That's when they could have "gone out" and acquired that "enforcer"....Maybe that attempted to do so, but still....

Don't forget though...the Suns will improve from w/in since they have experienced for the first time (in most cases) this high intensity level/calibre of NBA play-off basketball.... They now know how to contend in such instances.. .Also... D'Antoni will improve his coaching (its obviously a lot more different than winning a title in Italy/Europe compared to that of the NBA) so he'll be more fully aware of how to gear his team better for a "title run"...

The Suns just need to add "the spare parts" now.. not doing anything drastic whatsoever...Again... it's only just begun folks.....

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Does anyone happen to have a list of potential FAs (other than our own..does not matter if they're Unrestricted/Restricted)....

Just wonderng if there any player available who fit the "mold" of what the Suns should pursue and also who would fit w/in their price-range....

Also.. do you think the Suns should trade away their 1st round pick and include future 1st rounders (condition even) to add the necessary "pieces of the puzzle"?

Reason I ask the latter is because I seem to recall around draft time last season D'Antoni suggesting that he prefers not to develop projects, but rather always have "more veteran savvy" players than anything else.....

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I was initially against the McCarty trade at the time the deal was made... True, they didnt sacrifice much to acquire him, but why another finese player is what I questioned now and still am? That's when they could have "gone out" and acquired that "enforcer"....Maybe that attempted to do so, but still....

Who could they have aquired? For the last time, there was an extensive list provided by George I believe of all the players that fit the exception we had. McCarty was definitely the best player, both in skill and team need, that was available.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Who could they have aquired? For the last time, there was an extensive list provided by George I believe of all the players that fit the exception we had. McCarty was definitely the best player, both in skill and team need, that was available.

Oh..did McCarty really "fill" a "need"? Another outside perimeter player that cannot rebounder or not physical on both ends of the game (especially on the interior offense)...

If I seem to recall...Dale Davis was available around that time and perhaps the Suns could have tossed quite a bit of money toward him... Then.. I know some of you will respond with... he wouldnt have been able to keep up with the Suns fast-paced game.... However, he would have added another dimension to the Suns game and could have potentially caused more "match-up" problems.....

 

[Chaplin]

Oh..did McCarty really "fill" a "need"? Another outside perimeter player that cannot rebounder or not physical on both ends of the game (especially on the interior offense)...

If I seem to recall...Dale Davis was available around that time and perhaps the Suns could have tossed quite a bit of money toward him... Then.. I know some of you will respond with... he wouldnt have been able to keep up with the Suns fast-paced game.... However, he would have added another dimension to the Suns game and could have potentially caused more "match-up" problems.....

McCarty ain't exactly Shawn Marion, but he certainly wasn't a tree stump with his feet rooted to the floor, i.e. Dale Davis.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

McCarty ain't exactly Shawn Marion, but he certainly wasn't a tree stump with his feet rooted to the floor, i.e. Dale Davis.

At least D'Antoni might have been more inclined to use Davis in a more situation role (especially to counter someone like Duncan or even Nazr) then lose confidence in McCarty to eventually banish him to bench...Also, whenever McCarty has seen time during this post-season, he's missed several 3s and has committed some nonsensical fouls at a constant rate....

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Oh..did McCarty really "fill" a "need"? Another outside perimeter player that cannot rebounder or not physical on both ends of the game (especially on the interior offense)...

If I seem to recall...Dale Davis was available around that time and perhaps the Suns could have tossed quite a bit of money toward him... Then.. I know some of you will respond with... he wouldnt have been able to keep up with the Suns fast-paced game.... However, he would have added another dimension to the Suns game and could have potentially caused more "match-up" problems.....

First off, McCarty did fill a need - a backup to Shawn Marion.

Secondly, Dale Davis was available 3 weeks later (post trade deadline). Secondly, we could NOT have tossed "quite a bit of money" at him. We had NO money to use, just the vet min. He also made it very clear that the two teams he wanted to sign with were Indy and Detroit, and he chose Indy because he was guaranteed playing time (which we wouldnt have done either).


If you want to accuse the Suns management and D'Antoni of not improving the roster correctly during the season -- at least present some sort of option that was better and possible.

---This isn't really directed just at you, I am just sick of people claiming the Suns could have done this and that when in fact there were not other options available that made more sense.

 

[elindholm]

Also, what did the Suns give up to get McCarty? A mid second-round pick? Please. So basically they got a ninth man for nothing. Whoopdeedo.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

First off, McCarty did fill a need - a backup to Shawn Marion.

Secondly, Dale Davis was available 3 weeks later (post trade deadline). Secondly, we could NOT have tossed "quite a bit of money" at him. We had NO money to use, just the vet min. He also made it very clear that the two teams he wanted to sign with were Indy and Detroit, and he chose Indy because he was guaranteed playing time (which we wouldnt have done either).


If you want to accuse the Suns management and D'Antoni of not improving the roster correctly during the season -- at least present some sort of option that was better and possible.

---This isn't really directed just at you, I am just sick of people claiming the Suns could have done this and that when in fact there were not other options available that made more sense.

Was McCarty even an effective reserve for Marion to begin with? What did he really prove during his stint with the Celtics to merit such worth?

The better option would have been to address a really serious need...to fill some sort of "defiency"...not just acquire a player to be a reserve to someone and probably not get much any playing time anyways......

It's all moot though... the main/original premise of this thread is how the "Future Is Still Bright"..not to sit here and dwell on "what might have been?"
Now the Suns have between now and the beginning of the '05-'06 season (barring any lock-out) to have better chance to evaluate those needs and know what available resources they now have to complete the puzzle....

Besides probably my somewhat "anti-McCarty" sentiment..you can't find any fault in any of my other points whatsoever....

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Also, what did the Suns give up to get McCarty? A mid second-round pick? Please. So basically they got a ninth man for nothing. Whoopdeedo.

I also pointed out in my post that I agree that they didnt sacrifice anything whatsoever, but they could have vested in a more physical type player to make the Suns bench deeper so their options wouldnt have been as limited as they were throughout this post-season......

So, essentially you're implying that you'd rather have the starting 5 (when JJ was healthy) to expend all of their energies rather than having more quality depth that D'Antoni could have at least trusted so the "top guys" would be more well-rested..... I'd take the latter myself.....

 

[fordronken]

I also pointed out in my post that I agree that they didnt sacrifice anything whatsoever, but they could have vested in a more physical type player to make the Suns bench deeper so their options wouldnt have been as limited as they were throughout this post-season......

So, essentially you're implying that you'd rather have the starting 5 (when JJ was healthy) to expend all of their energies rather than having more quality depth that D'Antoni could have at least trusted so the "top guys" would be more well-rested..... I'd take the latter myself.....

The point is, there wasn't anybody better to go after. If there's somebdoy reasonable you could come up with that have filled our rather small trade exemption, please point him out.

 

[elindholm]

So, essentially you're implying that you'd rather have the starting 5 (when JJ was healthy) to expend all of their energies rather than having more quality depth

I guess you aren't following the thread. As thegrahamcrackr has pointed out, we had an extensive discussion on this board prior to the McCarty signing about other players who were potentially available for the million dollars or so that the Suns had to work with. There simply weren't any who would have provided any more help than McCarty did.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

The point is, there wasn't anybody better to go after. If there's somebdoy reasonable you could come up with that have filled our rather small trade exemption, please point him out.

[elindholm=] I guess you aren't following the thread. As thegrahamcrackr has pointed out, we had an extensive discussion on this board prior to the McCarty signing about other players who were potentially available for the million dollars or so that the Suns had to work with. There simply weren't any who would have provided any more help than McCarty did. [/quote]

Oh well... again.. it's all moot now anyways..... I guess now in hindsight I'm pointing-out how McCarty really wasnt of any benefit, but of course "hindsight is 20/20"....

Actually, I was following the thread (my main intent of it anyways) until as always someone tries to find what to them is one glaring fault in it and then just "beat it like a dead horse" (perhaps I was guilty of that as well)....

Again.. to reiterate.. it's about.. "the future being bright".. not what they could have done........

 

[elindholm]

I guess now in hindsight I'm pointing-out how McCarty really wasnt of any benefit

I agree with you there. I was never enthusiastic about the McCarty signing, and I certainly didn't expect him to be a major contributor. But it's not that common that you get something for nothing, so I didn't see it as a big deal.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Was McCarty even an effective reserve for Marion to begin with? What did he really prove during his stint with the Celtics to merit such worth?


Besides probably my somewhat "anti-McCarty" sentiment..you can't find any fault in any of my other points whatsoever....

Hey, I didnt say he was good at it - but he did fill a need

I actually agreed with the rest of what you said.

 

[Joe Mama]

Even though the second round pick was part of the deal I believe they received cash for it. It was that part of the deal that made Boston hold up for a while.

Joe Mama

 

[Errntknght]

Actually, McCarty was a negative acquisition and this isn't hindsight as I said it at the time. He took PT away from Hunter (and Voskuhl) and added nothing that was needed. Without Watuh there would have been a slightly greater chance that D'Antoni would have put some emphasis on developing a bigger lineup. Out of necessity, of course, as he clearly didn't want to do it.

If Hunter leaves next year, and some here think that's virtually certain, getting McCarty probably plays some part in that - it had to bother Hunter that Waltuh waltzed in and got playing time ahead of him without contributing jack-****.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Actually, McCarty was a negative acquisition and this isn't hindsight as I said it at the time. He took PT away from Hunter (and Voskuhl) and added nothing that was needed.

Mccarty played under 13 minutes a game - when he played (I think he sat out 5-10 games of the 30-35 games we had him for)

Hunter could have come in for Marion most of those times I guess - but it wasn't McCarty who put Hunter into D'Antoni's doghouse for a while. He did that on his own by losing focus here and there.

I guess what I am really trying to say is:

If we had not aquired McCarty, which do you think was more likely?

1.) Hunter subbing for Marion where McCarty did on occasion

or

2.) D'Antoni not giving Marion the rest, instead deciding to run him as much as possible.


Based on the PT of Hunter and Voskuhl before the aquisition, I am leaning towards number 2.