The film indicates that arm strength is the problem

[Timm Rosenbach]

I am watching the game again and it is clear to me that this is not an issue of decision making, pocket presence or confidence. Matt cannot put the ball where he wants to. The first two interceptions reiterate this. Whether or not this is a result of the collarbone injury is up for debate; but the ability to put the ball where it should be is not there.

Please tell me if I am off base?

 

[CtCardinals78]

I am watching the game again and it is clear to me that this is not an issue of decision making, pocket presence or confidence. Matt cannot put the ball where he wants to. The first two interceptions reiterate this. Whether or not this is a result of the collarbone injury is up for debate; but the ability to put the ball where it should be is not there.

Please tell me if I am off base?

I am starting to think that those two shoulder injuries have turned him into a more expensive Chad Pennington, which isn't a bad thing, but it looks like he is struggling to readjust his game making throws he may not be able to make anymore after those injuries.

Remember that bomb against Seattle his rookie year he nailed to BJ I think it was? Last night to Fitz was the same play but had a lot less zip to it. Good observation Timm!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I am watching the game again and it is clear to me that this is not an issue of decision making, pocket presence or confidence. Matt cannot put the ball where he wants to. The first two interceptions reiterate this. Whether or not this is a result of the collarbone injury is up for debate; but the ability to put the ball where it should be is not there.

Please tell me if I am off base?

I wouldnt say you are totally off base (I too believe he has only moderate arm strength) but that first int throwing to Fitz, he never once looked at any other read. I rewatched it and he fakes the hand off and throws. Head never leaves the right side of the field.

Same thing happened on the play to Boldin. Never looks around just chucks it up there. Now, with better arm strength, he may have been able to at least get the ball there so Fitz could make a play, but in both cases he never looked off the safety and inboth cases the safety made the pick.

 

[D-Dogg]

It's not arm strength....those throws he locked onto the receiver and threw it, never seeing the guy sitting to hop the route. His other INT was purely and 100 percent a terrible decision...he tried to throw an impossible pass and right at the defensive player. He should have just ran out of bounds or threw it away. Both of those first two INTs would have been catches had he looked the defenders off.

Could he have a stronger arm? Absolutely...that's no secret, at all. Does he need one? Absolutely not...he just needs to make good decisions, and read the defense. At least his footwork is vastly improved.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It's not arm strength....those throws he locked onto the receiver and threw it, never seeing the guy sitting to hop the route. His other INT was purely and 100 percent a terrible decision...he tried to throw an impossible pass and right at the defensive player. He should have just ran out of bounds or threw it away. Both of those first two INTs would have been catches had he looked the defenders off.

Could he have a stronger arm? Absolutely...that's no secret, at all. Does he need one? Absolutely not...he just needs to make good decisions, and read the defense. At least his footwork is vastly improved.

He looked so good in that first game against New Orleans. Wish he could do that consistantly.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

It's not arm strength....those throws he locked onto the receiver and threw it, never seeing the guy sitting to hop the route. His other INT was purely and 100 percent a terrible decision...he tried to throw an impossible pass and right at the defensive player. He should have just ran out of bounds or threw it away. Both of those first two INTs would have been catches had he looked the defenders off.

Could he have a stronger arm? Absolutely...that's no secret, at all. Does he need one? Absolutely not...he just needs to make good decisions, and read the defense. At least his footwork is vastly improved.

The Card's gameplan was clearly for Leinart to air it out in the preseason. Last week, Warner opened up with a bomb on the first play against the Chiefs and it was nearly completed. If Leinart had been able to put a little more zip on either of those first to int's they would have been (at worst) incompletions. I agree that he has a tendency to lock on but the end over end pass negates other issues. And yes, the footwork has improved, but without zip, it doesn't matter

 

[bg7brd]

He certainly doesn't look like the guy who took apart the Bears on the infamous Monday night game. I think he's playing a little "tight" with Warner looking over his shoulder. It seems like he's either forcing things or hesitating not wanting to make a mistake. To me it's more mental than physical. I think it might be good for him to start the season as the back up.

 

[Bigdez22]

Your right on the money Timm.Matt has trouble getting the ball downfield. Matt is a dink and dunk QB and there is nothing wrong with that, but Whis likes to run the ball to set up the pass and thats not the way to run the dink and dunk, west coast kind of offense. I think Matt could be successful but this is not the offense for him to do it. If Matt is the QB of the future, we need to change the offense to best suit Matts skills.

They do it for Warner when he plays. Not sure why they dont for Matt.
If you put Matt in a Jon Gruden kind of offense ( the 02 raiders with Gannon)I think he could be the QBOF

 

[mjb21aztd]

Yeah Leinart underthrew his wr by like 2 or 4 yards he was just horrid, and his int's were not smart eaither he should have just thrown the ball away especially the one he threw into triple coverage..... Also the worst one was the one that looked like a punter throw were it was just like a wounded duck with no spiral at all. I really hope Leinart gets his act togather quick and becomes atleast somewhat productive in the reg season because we will probally need him to start at one point in midseason.

 

[TJ]

He certainly doesn't look like the guy who took apart the Bears on the infamous Monday night game. I think he's playing a little "tight" with Warner looking over his shoulder. It seems like he's either forcing things or hesitating not wanting to make a mistake. To me it's more mental than physical. I think it might be good for him to start the season as the back up.

He has taken apart some good defenses in his youth like the Bears, Vikings, and Seahawks. My argument is that people are putting way too much stock on one preseason game, while Warner didnt look stellar either.

 

[bg7brd]

He has taken apart some good defenses in his youth like the Bears, Vikings, and Seahawks. My argument is that people are putting way too much stock on one preseason game, while Warner didnt look stellar either.

I completely agree. I just think that if Matt has to earn his position it will do wonders for his confidence. Right now Kurt has shown he is ready to be the starter and Matt's going to need a little more time. Opposing D's have to respect our passing game when Warner is in which opens up the running game. We saw a good example of that last night. I still think Leinart will be a good QB he's just not there YET.

 

[Joe L]

He has taken apart some good defenses in his youth like the Bears, Vikings, and Seahawks. My argument is that people are putting way too much stock on one preseason game, while Warner didnt look stellar either.

Well if you are using his "young days" as a point of argument, why can't we use Warner's recent days (last season) as a point of argument? In a perfect world, Warner earned the starting job last season and he should have kept it.

By the way, it wasn't just this last game, it was his first 4 last season.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

TJ, none of us disagree with the fact that Matt was the right draft pick at the time and was stellar in his first year. I am coming to think that the injuries to his collarbone\shoulder have ruined his ability to make the throws he made in the past. He is frustrated and we are frustrated and it's a shame. But this offense needs a QB who can throw downfield. Right now, Matt is not it.

 

[TJ]

TJ, none of us disagree with the fact that Matt was the right draft pick at the time and was stellar in his first year. I am coming to think that the injuries to his collarbone\shoulder have ruined his ability to make the throws he made in the past. He is frustrated and we are frustrated and it's a shame. But this offense needs a QB who can throw downfield. Right now, Matt is not it.

I would have assumed that those deficiencies would have been picked up in OTAs and training camp by now. By all accounts, everything was kosher until yesterday. Lott said he was getting stronger. Whis said he had completely rebounded. If the argument is being made that he is weaker because of the collarbone injury, I'd love to see what the team doctor has to say.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

He has taken apart some good defenses in his youth like the Bears, Vikings, and Seahawks. My argument is that people are putting way too much stock on one preseason game, while Warner didnt look stellar either.

Do'ya'think?



The guy has plenty of arm strength.


Beath that mutha.

 

[Carddan]

It's not arm strength....those throws he locked onto the receiver and threw it, never seeing the guy sitting to hop the route. His other INT was purely and 100 percent a terrible decision...he tried to throw an impossible pass and right at the defensive player. He should have just ran out of bounds or threw it away. Both of those first two INTs would have been catches had he looked the defenders off.

Could he have a stronger arm? Absolutely...that's no secret, at all. Does he need one? Absolutely not...he just needs to make good decisions, and read the defense. At least his footwork is vastly improved.

I totally disagree that the ints were the result of not looking off or reading the coverage. The first pass was underthrown and inside Fitz. Fitz should have been flagged for interference for knocking down the CB in his effort to get the ball. He wouldn't have caught it even if the safety wasn't there. The second int was with Matt scrambling and trying to "make" a play that wasn't there. Unfortunately, he threw it right to the defender between himself and the receiver. The third pass looked like a Dirk Johnson punt with better hang time. (sorry, cheap shot, I'm still hoping Dirk works out) Arm strength might have been a probrem with 2 out of 3 of the ints.

 

[Russ Smith]

I totally disagree that the ints were the result of not looking off or reading the coverage. The first pass was underthrown and inside Fitz. Fitz should have been flagged for interference for knocking down the CB in his effort to get the ball. He wouldn't have caught it even if the safety wasn't there. The second int was with Matt scrambling and trying to "make" a play that wasn't there. Unfortunately, he threw it right to the defender between himself and the receiver. The third pass looked like a Dirk Johnson punt with better hang time. (sorry, cheap shot, I'm still hoping Dirk works out) Arm strength might have been a probrem with 2 out of 3 of the ints.

The first ball should never have been thrown it was double coverage. Then Matt threw it inside to the safety. That's why I think Whiz said Wr's ran the wrong route I have to think Fitz was supposed to be inside the CB there and because he was outside Whiz is saying he was in the wrong place. But Matt can't throw that ball he had to see Fitz wasn't open when he let it go and don't lead the guy inside when he's outside.

The one Baker picked off was both a bad decision and a weak throw the ball was tumbling in the air.

 

[Gambit]

It's not arm strength....those throws he locked onto the receiver and threw it, never seeing the guy sitting to hop the route. His other INT was purely and 100 percent a terrible decision...he tried to throw an impossible pass and right at the defensive player. He should have just ran out of bounds or threw it away. Both of those first two INTs would have been catches had he looked the defenders off.

Could he have a stronger arm? Absolutely...that's no secret, at all. Does he need one? Absolutely not...he just needs to make good decisions, and read the defense. At least his footwork is vastly improved.

The beginning of the end for him seemed to start with Whis' obsession with revamping his footwork. The rest of Matt's game plummeted.

 

[Mitch]

The first ball should never have been thrown it was double coverage. Then Matt threw it inside to the safety. That's why I think Whiz said Wr's ran the wrong route I have to think Fitz was supposed to be inside the CB there and because he was outside Whiz is saying he was in the wrong place. But Matt can't throw that ball he had to see Fitz wasn't open when he let it go and don't lead the guy inside when he's outside.

The one Baker picked off was both a bad decision and a weak throw the ball was tumbling in the air.

Fitz was running a go route...a.k.a. fly pattern. The object is to get a step or two behind his man, and what's most preferred is being on the outside, which makes it harder for the safety to help on.

There's no way this was Fitz's fault. NO WAY!

There's also no way to pin the 2nd interception on Jerheme Urban...the innuendo from Coach Whiz was that Urban shoud have gotten in front of his man...how could he have? His man was in front of him, so Urban did exactly what a WR is taught...if the DB plays in front, go deep.

The third interception was a heaved wobbling duck into triple coverage that only traveled 30 yards, that Grandma Moses at free safety could have intercepted.

The excuse making for Leinart is quite epic...and it all contributes to how pampered this player is.

 

[TJ]

Beath that mutha.

That beat the dead horse emoticon is the funniest thing ever!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Fitz was running a go route...a.k.a. fly pattern. The object is to get a step or two behind his man, and what's most preferred is being on the outside, which makes it harder for the safety to help on.

There's no way this was Fitz's fault. NO WAY!

There's also no way to pin the 2nd interception on Jerheme Urban...the innuendo from Coach Whiz was that Urban shoud have gotten in front of his man...how could he have? His man was in front of him, so Urban did exactly what a WR is taught...if the DB plays in front, go deep.

The third interception was a heaved wobbling duck into triple coverage that only traveled 30 yards, that Grandma Moses at free safety could have intercepted.

The excuse making for Leinart is quite epic...and it all contributes to how pampered this player is.

I guess I'm assuming if Whiz was lying that Fitz would call him on it and say I was in the right place the ball was thrown to the wrong side? Fitz let the CB use the sideline to defend him I agree you generall want the ball to the outside so the safety has to cover more field but if that was one of the plays Whiz was referring to he clearly seemed to think Matt was expecting Fitz to be inside not outside.

I agree on the other 2 no way that's Urban's fault Matt should have ran. and the other one was a duck.

First one I don't care if the route wsa bad or not, you can't throw that ball, at the point Matt released it he should have seen the CB in perfect position with the safety coming over, at that point you go to option 2, you don't just throw it up and hope.

Bad picks on all 3, from a kid who up until now hasn't been turnover prone.

 

[JeffGollin]

Clearly on 2 of the throws, the ball did not get where it had to get to in a timely fashion. In one case, it was underthrown; in the other, the ball just floated down the seam like a big ol' balloon - whether this was due to a weak arm or simply poor mechanics is debatable. I'd point out one thing - a QB with a freaky-strong arm can often compensate for sloppy footwork. Leinart doesn't have a cannon; therefore, he cannot afford to throw flatfooted or off his back foot (but that doesn't mean his arm would be "too weak" if he stepped into those throws).

The third pick looked like a matter of Urban breaking long and Leinart thinking he would come back for the ball instead.

There was a 4th "almost pick" which definitely looked like Matt eyeballed his receiver and Glen Parker dissected one of the two underthrown picks on film and deduced that #27 was able to read Leinart's eyes.

Part of maturing into a really good starting QB in the pros is knowing what you can and cannot get away with physically. It may just be that Matt is overreaching a bit in this respect.

 

[Russ Smith]

Clearly on 2 of the throws, the ball did not get where it had to get to in a timely fashion. In one case, it was underthrown; in the other, the ball just floated down the seam like a big ol' balloon - whether this was due to a weak arm or simply poor mechanics is debatable. I'd point out one thing - a QB with a freaky-strong arm can often compensate for sloppy footwork. Leinart doesn't have a cannon; therefore, he cannot afford to throw flatfooted or off his back foot (but that doesn't mean his arm would be "too weak" if he stepped into those throws).

The third pick looked like a matter of Urban breaking long and Leinart thinking he would come back for the ball instead.

There was a 4th "almost pick" which definitely looked like Matt eyeballed his receiver and Glen Parker dissected one of the two underthrown picks on film and deduced that #27 was able to read Leinart's eyes.

Part of maturing into a really good starting QB in the pros is knowing what you can and cannot get away with physically. It may just be that Matt is overreaching a bit in this respect.

The only other almost pick I remember was the overthrow that glanced off Pope's hands and nearly got picked. That was a bad throw but it did hit Pope in the hands.

Matt was locking onto the primary guy though, ironically something his detractors have been saying for weeks he won't do. He keeps checking down and dumping it off, but Saturday he didn't do that he forced it to the first option.

that's why I am so unhappy with him, his mistakes were entirely new territory caused by something he never did before, force balls.

 

[PACardsFan]

I think that our expectations for Matt are too high at this point. All the morons on ESPN keep bringing up that Matt is a 3rd yr QB who should be ready for the NFL. For all intents & purposes, Matt has only played the equivalence of a little over 1 season, CERTAINLY NOT 3. The NFL game is eons faster & more complex than the college game. Add the injuries & coaching changes & we have what we have. It's not that Matt isn't ready for the NFL, but he's not ready to be consistent. He has had his great, good, average & horrible moments. All to be expected for the amount of time he's spent ON THE FIELD.
Some guys on this board have to remember a guy named Steve Young. He was originally drafted by Tampa Bay & was awful early on. He's now in the HOF. Let's be patient - Leinart needs to stay healthy & continue to learn. The speed & complexities of the game are still causing inconsistencies for him.

 

[bg7brd]

The only other almost pick I remember was the overthrow that glanced off Pope's hands and nearly got picked. That was a bad throw but it did hit Pope in the hands.

Matt was locking onto the primary guy though, ironically something his detractors have been saying for weeks he won't do. He keeps checking down and dumping it off, but Saturday he didn't do that he forced it to the first option.

that's why I am so unhappy with him, his mistakes were entirely new territory caused by something he never did before, force balls.

Pope has to catch those high passes because thats where the QB should be throwing to take advantage of his height. At 6'8" those high passes are almost impossible to defend.