The Ayton Plan

Covert Rain

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I agree about the self-awareness part as he needs to hold himself accountable. However, while he's not a savant, he's not stupid as you're implying. He is very sharp with defensive assignments. That's not a low IQ trait. And yes, no less than 50% of that is on Monty. As a coach, his job is to...well....coach.
Being continually being in the wrong spots during rotations is low IQ. Not knowing where other guys are and not boxing out is low IQ. In general seemingly being lost on the court as often as he is is low IQ. Wait until he is traded and shows the same traits under a different coach and system. If he goes somewhere else and becomes a perennial all-star living up to his draft position?

I will gladly eat crow.
 

WaywardFan

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Would getting rid of Monty and getting a better coach in turn DA around enough that we should keep him? That he'd want to stay? That his fellow players would want him to stay?
 

TJ

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Would getting rid of Monty and getting a better coach in turn DA around enough that we should keep him? That he'd want to stay? That his fellow players would want him to stay?
Ayton doesn’t want to be here. It’s over
 

Treesquid PhD

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Would getting rid of Monty and getting a better coach in turn DA around enough that we should keep him? That he'd want to stay? That his fellow players would want him to stay?
No Ayton is gone. the new cap rules make Ayton's contract a killer for his production. The Suns would be above the second apron, meaning you would have

1. KD - $47,654,833
2. Book $36,016,200
3. Ayton $32,459,438
4. CP3 $30,800,000
5. Shamet $10,250,000

That alone is 156M!

The Cap is 136M!

Tax apron 1 is $162M


Now Shamet is another $6,500,000 = 163M
Oh and Ish is like 2M, over the tax with 7 dudes.

Next tax apron is 17.5m of 136M, then you can only sign mins.

No one is taking Shamet.

So it's CP3 and Ayton, the math is the math, you can't run this same team back out there. If you are making 33M you need to produce at that level.
 

TJ

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I do think the Suns do a poor job of developing players but that is no excuse for a player to mail it in while collecting a huge contract.
I don’t disagree. Ayton’s immaturity was on full display especially in the last few weeks.
 

Big Al

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We have given Ayton is max contract and now a year later he wants out of town. And we'll give that to him also. His immaturity seems to surface again as Ayton doesn't seem to realize in a business transaction one side doesn't get everything they want in negotiations while the other party to the negotiation just fold & surrenders. It's a give and take situation. Hope he doesn't start to go Bledsoe & Dragic on the Suns then their return will suffer. :(
 

Dr. Jones

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We have given Ayton is max contract and now a year later he wants out of town. And we'll give that to him also. His immaturity seems to surface again as Ayton doesn't seem to realize in a business transaction one side doesn't get everything they want in negotiations while the other party to the negotiation just fold & surrenders. It's a give and take situation. If he starts to go Bledsoe & Dragic on the Suns then their return will suffer. :(
No. We matched Indy's max contract for Ayton after not giving him a home town max. He wanted out then and still does but we are protecting the asset as any business would do.

Now, he has devalued himself so much, I'm not sure what we can get in return.
 

Covert Rain

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No Ayton is gone. the new cap rules make Ayton's contract a killer for his production. The Suns would be above the second apron, meaning you would have

1. KD - $47,654,833
2. Book $36,016,200
3. Ayton $32,459,438
4. CP3 $30,800,000
5. Shamet $10,250,000

That alone is 156M!

The Cap is 136M!

Tax apron 1 is $162M


Now Shamet is another $6,500,000 = 163M
Oh and Ish is like 2M, over the tax with 7 dudes.

Next tax apron is 17.5m of 136M, then you can only sign mins.

No one is taking Shamet.

So it's CP3 and Ayton, the math is the math, you can't run this same team back out there. If you are making 33M you need to produce at that level.
IMO you have to find a way to move those last 3 contracts to reload. There is talk of asking Paul to restructure his contract but I seriously think the Suns need to move those 3 to maximize our ability to bring in other pieces.
 

ASUCHRIS

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IMO you have to find a way to move those last 3 contracts to reload. There is talk of asking Paul to restructure his contract but I seriously think the Suns need to move those 3 to maximize our ability to bring in other pieces.
Chris Paul at 10M for the next 2 years, I'm ok. 30M is out of the question. Anything more is an overpay.
 

AzStevenCal

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Most of the Ayton fans including my close friends are University of Arizona fans, not graduates, fans.
Where are you running into all these Ayton fans? We have a lot of UA fans here but we have very, very few DA supporters. And that's been more and more the case since before he played his first game for the Suns.

His post draft/preseason interviews where all he could talk about was getting the big contract alarmed most of us that had been in his corner while he was in Tucson. Add to that the off and on problem with his hands, the complete lack of physicality at both ends of the court, the ridiculous "I am great" kind of comments, the drug suspension and letting the world know he skips sleep regularly to play video games, his diehard fans on this site can be counted on one hand and you probably wouldn't need all the fingers or the thumb.
 

Treesquid PhD

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I do think the Suns do a poor job of developing players but that is no excuse for a player to mail it in while collecting a huge contract.
The Suns do a bad job of evaluating high end draft picks.

Seriously they are bad. If you look back in early 2018 the top 2 picks were Jackson Jr and Porter Jr, Ayton was 4th or 5th behind Bagley. This was before Luka declared and Trey went off.

If Porter Jr. didn't mess up his back bad he would have been the first pick easy.

But Sarver insisted on Ayrton at all costs because he went to his University. And RMD knew his career as a GM was on the line. Sarver forbid RMD traveling to watch Luka, it was already decided Ayton was the pick. Clear cognitive bias.

But Sarver also made a lot of bad picks. And if you think Blanks or Babby were running the show you are kidding yourself.

Sarver picked.

2011 - Morris 13 picked over KL because Sarver and Baby both didn't like how he sweated during his work out.
2012 - Kendal Marshall 13 - Babby and Sarver loved his passing
2013 - Alex Len 5 - Sarver and RMD thought he monster inside I think Maryland
2014 - Warren 14 - Sarver went to scout him personally at NCST
2015 - Booker 13 win all around great pick hands down. Spurs like
2016 - Len and that other bro I forget his name- This was not on Sarver this was RMD thinking he had a unicorn lol (oh this was the Joker draft lol)
2017 - Jackson - I Heard Sarver wanted Fox, RMD loved Jackson this is not on Sarver, I this is when Sarver started to sour on RMD. RMD didn't even like Tatum that much
2018 - Ayton 1 and Bagley 2, they rated Trey 3 and Luka 4. RMD was done at this point.
2019 - Culver but this turned into Mikal great pick Jones
2020 - Smith over Haliburton, a fire able offense. Because Smith was project late first maybe second round.
Where are you running into all these Ayton fans? We have a lot of UA fans here but we have very, very few DA supporters. And that's been more and more the case since before he played his first game for the Suns.

His post draft/preseason interviews where all he could talk about was getting the big contract alarmed most of us that had been in his corner while he was in Tucson. Add to that the off and on problem with his hands, the complete lack of physicality at both ends of the court, the ridiculous "I am great" kind of comments, the drug suspension and letting the world know he skips sleep regularly to play video games, his diehard fans on this site can be counted on one hand and you probably wouldn't need all the fingers or the thumb.
You would be surprised. There are a lot of University of Arizona fans who are sure he is going to turn into a super star. Just look back three weeks, one guy said I was insane to think Ayton was at Nkemdiche. Well I was right he is. Sorry your University sucks I hope Monty's son realizes this and goes to Duke, my son is AAU and Monty's kid is a super star. Go to Duke or NC not the University of Rober Sarver Eller School of Sexual Harassment.
 

Treesquid PhD

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Btw, the President of my PhD program at CGU Len Jessup, said Eller was the worst school he had ever come across. He bailed as fast as he could to UNLV.
 

clyde2tw

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DA's main problem is bad habits and going through set motions, mental laziness on the court. With better coaching and right team, and only 24 in age, he can improve.
 

Fumats20

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The Suns do a bad job of evaluating high end draft picks.

Seriously they are bad. If you look back in early 2018 the top 2 picks were Jackson Jr and Porter Jr, Ayton was 4th or 5th behind Bagley. This was before Luka declared and Trey went off.

If Porter Jr. didn't mess up his back bad he would have been the first pick easy.

But Sarver insisted on Ayrton at all costs because he went to his University. And RMD knew his career as a GM was on the line. Sarver forbid RMD traveling to watch Luka, it was already decided Ayton was the pick. Clear cognitive bias.

But Sarver also made a lot of bad picks. And if you think Blanks or Babby were running the show you are kidding yourself.

Sarver picked.

2011 - Morris 13 picked over KL because Sarver and Baby both didn't like how he sweated during his work out.
2012 - Kendal Marshall 13 - Babby and Sarver loved his passing
2013 - Alex Len 5 - Sarver and RMD thought he monster inside I think Maryland
2014 - Warren 14 - Sarver went to scout him personally at NCST
2015 - Booker 13 win all around great pick hands down. Spurs like
2016 - Len and that other bro I forget his name- This was not on Sarver this was RMD thinking he had a unicorn lol (oh this was the Joker draft lol)
2017 - Jackson - I Heard Sarver wanted Fox, RMD loved Jackson this is not on Sarver, I this is when Sarver started to sour on RMD. RMD didn't even like Tatum that much
2018 - Ayton 1 and Bagley 2, they rated Trey 3 and Luka 4. RMD was done at this point.
2019 - Culver but this turned into Mikal great pick Jones
2020 - Smith over Haliburton, a fire able offense. Because Smith was project late first maybe second round.

You would be surprised. There are a lot of University of Arizona fans who are sure he is going to turn into a super star. Just look back three weeks, one guy said I was insane to think Ayton was at Nkemdiche. Well I was right he is. Sorry your University sucks I hope Monty's son realizes this and goes to Duke, my son is AAU and Monty's kid is a super star. Go to Duke or NC not the University of Rober Sarver Eller School of Sexual Harassment.

Jalen "Stix" Smith was invited to the "Green room" (a virtual one due to covid....but a.k.a. a notice you more than likely going in the first round), the combine and was not projected a 2nd round pick. Mocks had him 17-20. He had interviewed & worked out for teams 5 - 22. NO, SA & Boston were ready to take him 12, 13, 14. As well as Miami 20 and Denver 22 were all waiting for him.

Smith was an All American, national player of the year finalist ( including overall & by position) and was 4th in the nation in double doubles. This he wasn't mocked higher is not correct. He was.

Even Jones said teams were calling for him starting draft night.

The Suns picked the wrong player...ok...but what they did worse was waste Smith developmental time and couldn't care less about his future career.

In retrospect, the Suns should have accepted the trade request(s) as soon as they added Crowder.

How you really know the Suns didn't put much effort into the pick is when Monty said upon his return from covid after Smith played while Monty was out that he didn't know Smith could rebound. That right there was just ridiculous. The kid was "4th in the nation in double doubles". The only player in the nation to average 15+ points, 10+rebounds, 1+ blocks and 36%+ from the 3. How the hell Monty a "cerebral" guy not know Smith could rebound the hell out of the ball and had been doing it since high school...so wasn't a fluke. Guess Monty didn't know that Smith was an elite level offensive rebounder and most of his free throw attempts came from being mauled when he went after the rebound. That's when I knew Monty was never going to play the kid...as Monty confirmed recently in saying he never gave him a fair shake.

When Stix got traded to Indiana, Denver was in last minute talks for to take him. The final move didn't happen because a player refused the trade. Indiana didn't want him they were using him to get a player from Denver. Denver had staff that was from Stix hometown, Baltimore, who had been watching him since he his middle school days...as well as several players who were from that area too.

This info is publicly available.
 
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elindholm

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Jalen "Stix" Smith was invited to the "Green room" (a virtual one due to covid....but a.k.a. a notice you more than likely going in the first round), the combine and was not projected a 2nd round pick. Mocks had him 17-20. He had interviewed & worked out for teams 5 - 22. NO, SA & Boston were ready to take him 12, 13, 14. As well as Miami 20 and Denver 22 were all waiting for him.

Smith was an All American, national player of the year finalist ( including overall & by position) and was 4th in the nation in double doubles. This he wasn't mocked higher is not correct. He was.

Even Jones said teams were calling for him starting draft night.

The Suns picked the wrong player...ok...but what they did worse was waste Smith developmental time and couldn't care less about his future career.

In retrospect, the Suns should have accepted the trade request(s) as soon as they added Crowder.

How you really know the Suns didn't put much effort into the pick is when Monty said upon his return from covid after Smith played while Monty was out that he didn't know Smith could rebound. That right there was just ridiculous. The kid was "4th in the nation in double doubles". The only player in the nation to average 15+ points, 10+rebounds, 1+ blocks and 36%+ from the 3. How the hell Monty a "cerebral" guy not know Smith could rebound the hell out of the ball and had been doing it since high school...so wasn't a fluke. Guess Monty didn't know that Smith was an elite level offensive rebounder and most of his free throw attempts came from being mauled when he went after the rebound. That's when I knew Monty was never going to play the kid...as Monty confirmed recently in saying he never gave him a fair shake.

When Stix got traded to Indiana, Denver was in last minute talks for to take him. The final move didn't happen because a player refused the trade. Indiana didn't want him they were using him to get a player from Denver. Denver had staff that was from Stix hometown, Baltimore, who had been watching him since he his middle school days...as well as several players who were from that area too.

This info is publicly available.
And yet somehow Smith is the same player in Indiana that he was in Phoenix.

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Fumats20

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Probably because he's 3 years behind in development compared the rest of his 2020 draft class who got time on losing teams....especially those on losing lottery teams.

But playing time is playing time. He has been productive when he has gotten time despite being waaaaay behind on development. So he just needs playing time to catch up to his peers. He's needs a fair shake.
 
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Hoop Head

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Probably because he's 3 years behind in development compared the rest of his 2020 draft class who got time on losing teams....especially those on losing lottery teams.

But playing time is playing time. He has been productive when he has gotten time despite being waaaaay behind on development. So he just needs playing time to catch up to his peers.

A year behind, maybe. Not 3 years behind. He got screwed his rookie year but so did the rest of that class in missing Summer League entirely and a shortened training camp, rookie season, and more restricted G-LEAGUE year. Year 2 he was dealt at the deadline though and played regularly in Indiana. What was the issue this year? This is his 3rd year, BTW, so you can't say he's 3 years behind when his 3rd season just happened and he played the entirety for Indiana.
 
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