The 2018-2019 Around the NBA thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Recency bias. I'm sure if you pull up past "Around the NBA" threads you would see debate on officiating as well. Last year was really bad from what I can remember. The players and the refs had a special meeting to hash out some issues around the All-Star break last season because there were so many poorly officiated games and a ton of technical fouls being assessed for players calling out the officials.

This year has been bad but I think the officiating has been really poor for the last 3-4 years or so. I think it took a hit when Lebron went back to Cleveland, not that that was the cause but that's just something to note the time when it became really noticeable, IMO. If you watch Inside the NBA you can see terrible calls weekly on Shaqtin a Fool because it seems like Shaq has been throwing in one terrible no call almost every other segment he does.

Here is one Shaq's end of the year compilations. It's from the 2015-16 season with the top 5 uncalled travels. I think he started doing the year end compilations that year also.

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I’m not asking if the calls are wise this year than previously. I know we’ve had bad officiating overall for some time. But gardens and Durant’s plays are SO awful I can’t recall seeing such bad calls before. The 5 travels in that vid were mostly shuffle of feet or stutter steps. The harden move was literally two giant two-footed leaps backwards and Durant’s was three steps a good foot out of bounds. I mean you can’t compare the travels in that vid, as bad as they are, to the two egregious missed calls this year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are some terrible foul calls in NBA history but the referees missing Durant going several feet out of bounds is one of the most obvious I have ever seen.

It is truly the most blatant missed call I have ever seen in 45 years of watching. Charges, fouls, etc, can be missed under the "we were letting them play" excuse. But this is like calling a made basket a miss or a miss a make, for no apparent reason.

 

[Mainstreet]

It is truly the most blatant missed call I have ever seen in 45 years of watching. Charges, fouls, etc, can be missed under the "we were letting them play" excuse. But this is like calling a made basket a miss or a miss a make, for no apparent reason.

Exactly. It defies the rules of the game like having opposing baskets and boundary lines.

 

[Russ Smith]

I didn't think the picture was right, it seemed way too obvious. When I saw the video though I was blown away that the picture probably gave the refs more wiggle room than the video. There's no debate he was out and it's questionable as to why he even tried to go for the ball at that point since he was out for so long.

They really need to do something with the refs. I'm not sure what could help though. I've heard the idea of assigning a 4th ref who is watching the TV feed that has the ability to overrule some calls but I don't think that would solve much of anything. The bad calls would still happen and they'd lose the ability to say they didn't see it but the refs back each other up so often that I can't see another ref overturning mistakes the others made.

It's crazy to me how any player will get fined for mentioning the officiating in postgame interviews but they release the 2 minute report that shows all of their mistakes. I've heard a lot of calls from analysts saying they should stop doing the 2 minute report because it only makes them look bad, it's not like it solves anything, and the majority who say that are ex-players.

You can have 10 refs if they're not good it won't matter. anybody that played basketball at any level understands generally speaking the ref is watching the ball. If there are 3 refs they have "assignments" but at any given time 1 of the 3 should be watching the ball. How can you watch the ball on that play and not see Durant is out of bounds, both feet and then jumps to save it? Frankly as others have said it's odd Durant even tried it, he clearly knew he was out of bounds I guess it was just knee jerk reaction.

Steph was on live today and said I don't know why I even shot it we all figured the play was dead but I didn't hear a whistle and we're taught to play to the whistle so I shot it.

It would have been a travesty if that no call decided the game so I'm glad Harden made the 3, as tough as it was to watch them blow a 20 point lead.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’m not asking if the calls are wise this year than previously. I know we’ve had bad officiating overall for some time. But gardens and Durant’s plays are SO awful I can’t recall seeing such bad calls before. The 5 travels in that vid were mostly shuffle of feet or stutter steps. The harden move was literally two giant two-footed leaps backwards and Durant’s was three steps a good foot out of bounds. I mean you can’t compare the travels in that vid, as bad as they are, to the two egregious missed calls this year.

I have seen a few travels that rivaled Harden's travel (Lebron has one that's almost as bad) but that Durant call stands alone and it is NOT recency bias or any other such thing. There is no excuse or rationalization for all 3 refs missing that call. I'm pretty sure there were only 3 people facing the court in that arena that missed the call.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have seen a few travels that rivaled Harden's travel (Lebron has one that's almost as bad) but that Durant call stands alone and it is NOT recency bias or any other such thing. There is no excuse or rationalization for all 3 refs missing that call. I'm pretty sure there were only 3 people facing the court in that arena that missed the call.

Ralph Lawler called that Durant play the worst call or no call he's ever seen in 30 years. And for it to be at such a key time? Those referees should be fined or suspended for getting as important of a play THAT BLINDINGLY WRONG.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ralph Lawler called that Durant play the worst call or no call he's ever seen in 30 years. And for it to be at such a key time? Those referees should be fined or suspended for getting as important of a play THAT BLINDINGLY WRONG.

He also tore booker apart.

 

[sunsfan88]

He also tore booker apart.

Lawler is the best in the business and will be a loss for the NBA world when he retires after this season.

 

[devilalum]

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He is literally impossible to guard with the new rules.


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[devilalum]

Some team challenges would help like in the NFL.

You would only be able to challenge plays that happen on a stop of the clock. Neither one of the two plays in question would be reviewable.


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[elindholm]

He is literally impossible to guard with the new rules.

I think we're going to see some "unspoken" corrections in the officiating as the season goes on, especially in the playoffs, and then some concrete rule changes next summer to give defenses some chance to compete. Looking back, the 2018-19 NBA season will be regarded as an experiment that failed, like those few years with the really short three-point line.

 

[sunsfan88]

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Best thing to happen this season so far.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think we're going to see some "unspoken" corrections in the officiating as the season goes on, especially in the playoffs, and then some concrete rule changes next summer to give defenses some chance to compete. Looking back, the 2018-19 NBA season will be regarded as an experiment that failed, like those few years with the really short three-point line.

The Warriors and Kings just set an NBA record for combined made 3's in a game with 41, the Kings were 20-36. If you recall early in the year I was commenting on how in the preseason and early season the refs were calling a ton of moving screens, and it was really impacting the warriors. That seems to have stopped, they call it now and then but nothing like early season. Both teams did it but the Kings are basically taking what the Warriors do and pushing it one step further.

The Rockets do it a different way it's a set play where the screener pushes the defender and then Harden jumps into the defender and gets 3 FT's, the refs HAVE to stop giving them FT's on that play it's just gone too far.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Warriors and Kings games this year have been amazingly fun to watch. One thing that's interesting is the Warriors seem to have a very clear game plan of attacking DeAaron Fox. Steph had 35 in the last game and 42 last night. I assume it's not as much they think Fox is not a good defender, as they think the more defense they make him play, the less impactful he'll be on offense because he'll be tired.

He also had critical turnovers late in both games that cost the kings any chance of winning. I think there's some "go to" plays the Kings run with Fox late in games that the Warriors sniffed out, both were similar plays where the Warriors just seemed to know where he was going to pass the ball and got there first. Curry to his credit was terrific last night against Fox, the last time around Fox had 25 and 9 assists, didn't shoot great and in the 4th they shut him down a bit but Curry wasn't guarding him that much. This time around it was Curry on Fox and he held him to 3-12 8 points 7 assists. Still a terrific young player, when they get Bagley back look out.

 

[Mainstreet]

Chandler Parson and Grizzles agree on separation.

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[hcsilla]

Separation? They will have a very hard time to trade Parsons even if the Grizzlies are willing to take back bad/long-term contracts.
There are not many in the range of Parson's not even if you combine some.

 

[Suns_fan69]

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[SirStefan32]

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Oh wow! Get a bunch of soft players, then trade your one tough player and fire the tough coach. Brilliant strategy.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Oh wow! Get a bunch of soft players, then trade your one tough player and fire the tough coach. Brilliant strategy.

Timing is weird, they just blew out the Lakers too.

Maybe Derrick Rose asks to get out? Unlikely but one can dream...

 

[Russ Smith]

BTW Curry did the Harden stepback late in the Kings game and got called for a walk. You could see him asking the ref why is it a walk when I did it and not when he does. Jim Barnett said the ref told Curry "it's not a walk for Harden because he's gathering his feet when he does it. You did the stop, and then took 2 more steps." So I assume that's the official excuse for why they don't call it on Harden they consider him to be doing a "gather".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BTW Curry did the Harden stepback late in the Kings game and got called for a walk. You could see him asking the ref why is it a walk when I did it and not when he does. Jim Barnett said the ref told Curry "it's not a walk for Harden because he's gathering his feet when he does it. You did the stop, and then took 2 more steps." So I assume that's the official excuse for why they don't call it on Harden they consider him to be doing a "gather".

WTF is a gather?!?

 

[Hoop Head]

WTF is a gather?!?

Per the NBA rulebook -
A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.


Here's more info on how Harden "uses it to perfection" from a Houston fansite. It's biased but they do explain it much more in detail.

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/6/19/4436230/james-hardens-use-of-the-gather-provision

 

[Cheesebeef]

Per the NBA rulebook -
A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.


Here's more info on how Harden "uses it to perfection" from a Houston fansite. It's biased but they do explain it much more in detail.

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/6/19/4436230/james-hardens-use-of-the-gather-provision

is that the kind of crap rule that allowed Shaq to get away with his hop step repeatedly? Man, that ish annoyed the CRAP out of me back in the day.

 

[Russ Smith]

Per the NBA rulebook -
A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.


Here's more info on how Harden "uses it to perfection" from a Houston fansite. It's biased but they do explain it much more in detail.

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/6/19/4436230/james-hardens-use-of-the-gather-provision

But those are all going forward to the basket so in one motion. What he's doing with the step back is going forward and then stepping back and multiple steps. I find it hard to believe that the gather part of that rule is intended to apply when the guy is changing directions?

Curry does this thing where he's dribbling where he'll "push" the ball ahead so it's completely disconnected from him and then gather it again and keep dribbling. Obviously every dribble is disconnected for awhile, but the way he does it really pushes the envelope. People used to complain it was a pass to himself but the NBA has ruled what he's doing is dribbling, not a discontinued dribble. So maybe the NBA is saying that too with Harden, he's extending the dribble when he pulls it back.

Jim Barnett was very clear, Curry did walk, but he said so does Harden on most of his he just sells it better. The other thing Harden does that we've talked about before is his way of dealing with closeouts. Guys like Bruce Bowen drove people nuts closing out to the shooter and ending up under his legs, so the rules where changed and now guys close out to the side of the shooter. What Harden does, and now Curry and Klay and Westbrook and others do it too, is Harden guesses which side the defender is going to close out too and falls that way to create the contact. Most will close to Harden's left side so they bother the shot, so he falls to his left. I've noticed with the Warriors they are closing to his right to account for that and Harden seems to have figured it out and is now falling the other way.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The other thing Harden does that we've talked about before is his way of dealing with closeouts. Guys like Bruce Bowen drove people nuts closing out to the shooter and ending up under his legs, so the rules where changed and now guys close out to the side of the shooter. What Harden does, and now Curry and Klay and Westbrook and others do it too, is Harden guesses which side the defender is going to close out too and falls that way to create the contact. Most will close to Harden's left side so they bother the shot, so he falls to his left. I've noticed with the Warriors they are closing to his right to account for that and Harden seems to have figured it out and is now falling the other way.

The other thing that James does on that 3 point fallback shot is he kicks his lower body straight forward so that the average defender is almost forced to be in his landing zone which by rule/interpretation means free throws for Harden.