Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

ajcardfan

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Those Houston losses stung big time. Especially coming off that finals run. I remember a Portland game in the 92 playoffs before Barkley I believe. It was a multi overtime game that we lost but it stuck with me all these years
Oh yeah. That was that fantastic Blazers team with Clyde the Glide. IIRC, we had upset Utah to get there. KJ and Chambers were great in those playoffs.
 

Cheesebeef

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The Houston losses were beyond brutal. Nothing compared to those.

I loved those teams. And that’s why the losses hurt so much.

I hate this one. And that’s why the losses don’t hurt at all.
 
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Hoop Head

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In my angry drunk outing last night I met up with someone who works for the Suns in their media, quite a bit of access. I don't ask him about inner workings stuff because it's a douchy thing to do and he wouldn't and shouldn't say anything anyway.

But... last night the filter was off for him.

He says 100% Vogel is fired within hours of the Suns getting eliminated (not a surprise but nice to hear).

He also thinks Durant is uncoachable. Durant doesn't want to play in a system, he wants to go out there and "hoop". Take guys one on one, he passes up on open catch and shoot 3 opportunities in favor of trying to beat a guy off the dribble or with a fadeaway. His ability to make tough shots is supposed to be a safety blanket when the offense can't make a play but he uses it as his primary option.

Also, and this has been discussed here plenty, that Booker used to get pissed about loses has totally changed with the subtraction of Paul and the addition of Durant. Durant has rubbed off on him in all the wrong ways.

Sounds like a Flex Bomb, basically, as far as stating the obvious. Not doubting someone told you this but seems like what we've been saying for months here. I would have asked the person if they also had an uncle who worked for Nintendo.

This team needs blown up. I'm not sure what sort of return we can get for KD but he needs shopped. There are teams who will he dumb enough to offer some value for him. If we can get 2 starters and a pick or more, do it. The bandaid needs ripped off. No use trying to wait and draw it out. His value will tank even more.
 

Chaplin

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Sounds like a Flex Bomb, basically, as far as stating the obvious. Not doubting someone told you this but seems like what we've been saying for months here. I would have asked the person if they also had an uncle who worked for Nintendo.

This team needs blown up. I'm not sure what sort of return we can get for KD but he needs shopped. There are teams who will he dumb enough to offer some value for him. If we can get 2 starters and a pick or more, do it. The bandaid needs ripped off. No use trying to wait and draw it out. His value will tank even more.
Kd isn't going to be traded. Period. He cam be shopped till the cows come home, he won't be traded.
 

Covert Rain

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Kd isn't going to be traded. Period. He cam be shopped till the cows come home, he won't be traded.
It would be difficult. Have to match salary within 10%. Someone is going to have to want to pay an old Durant that kind of money and be willing to give up talent in return. That is going to be a really short list.
 
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Hoop Head

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Kd isn't going to be traded. Period. He cam be shopped till the cows come home, he won't be traded.

Source? A 37 year old KD doesn't help us improve on the court next season. He needs to be dealt. Saying it won't happen based on a hunch holds no more water than me saying he will be traded.
 

BirdGangThing

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Source? A 37 year old KD doesn't help us improve on the court next season. He needs to be dealt. Saying it won't happen based on a hunch holds no more water than me saying he will be traded.
kd isn't going anywhere for 2 reasons

1) i think our starting 5 will want to run it back once vogel gets axed - and teams can massively improve from year 1 to year 2 - luka and kyrie were so bad together they tanked and avoided the playoffs altogether - exactly one year later and they're freakin besties

2) that contract - his age - and the new rules
 
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Hoop Head

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kd isn't going anywhere for 2 reasons

1) i think our starting 5 will want to run it back once vogel gets axed - and teams can massively improve from year 1 to year 2 - luka and kyrie were so bad together they tanked and avoided the playoffs altogether - exactly one year later and they're freakin besties

2) that contract - his age - and the new rules

Kyrie was hurt last year and Dallas deliberately tanked to retain their own pick, which was either lottery protected or top 12 protected, so it was in their best interest to retain that pick and add a quality youngster. They're not a great example of a team improving given the deliberate tanking and the moves they made this deadline to become a legit dark horse contender.

It won't be easy to trade KD but it can be done. CP3 was called untradable and Houston moved him to OKC, OKC moved him again to us, and we moved him to Washington who flipped him to Oakland. Players can always be moved. There will be fewer takers with the luxury tax/apron rules but there will be takers.
 

nashman

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Kyrie was hurt last year and Dallas deliberately tanked to retain their own pick, which was either lottery protected or top 12 protected, so it was in their best interest to retain that pick and add a quality youngster. They're not a great example of a team improving given the deliberate tanking and the moves they made this deadline to become a legit dark horse contender.

It won't be easy to trade KD but it can be done. CP3 was called untradable and Houston moved him to OKC, OKC moved him again to us, and we moved him to Washington who flipped him to Oakland. Players can always be moved. There will be fewer takers with the luxury tax/apron rules but there will be takers.
I would more use the Twolves as an example of takes some time to come together. Their big three was like 40-42 last year. Conley helped stabilize that group for tie best record in the west a year later with injuries! If towns isn’t out extended time they likely the 1 seed. We need a good coach and a pg this team could still be nasty if they assembled it better!
 

Phrazbit

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It would be difficult. Have to match salary within 10%. Someone is going to have to want to pay an old Durant that kind of money and be willing to give up talent in return. That is going to be a really short list.
Source? A 37 year old KD doesn't help us improve on the court next season. He needs to be dealt. Saying it won't happen based on a hunch holds no more water than me saying he will be traded.

I agree with Chaplin, he basically is untradeable.

No one over the 2nd apron will be allowed to trade for him... it's not a 10% flexibility it is to the exact dollar for those teams and it has to be a 1 for 1 trade. Impossible. That rules out a ton of the league's contenders.

From what is left you gotta find a team that either has the space to absorb his salary straight up (there are zero), or a team in contention and with the contracts to maybe piece something together.

As far as I can tell, that leaves only the Kings or Thunder. That's it. I don't see how either team can put together a trade without ruining their rosters.
 

Hoop Head

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I agree with Chaplin, he basically is untradeable.

No one over the 2nd apron will be allowed to trade for him... it's not a 10% flexibility it is to the exact dollar for those teams and it has to be a 1 for 1 trade. Impossible. That rules out a ton of the league's contenders.

From what is left you gotta find a team that either has the space to absorb his salary straight up (there are zero), or a team in contention and with the contracts to maybe piece something together.

As far as I can tell, that leaves only the Kings or Thunder. That's it. I don't see how either team can put together a trade without ruining their rosters.

The Sixers will have cap space.

It doesn't need to be a 1 for 1 trade unless the other team is also over the 2nd apron. We can trade KD elsewhere for up to his salary in return plus 10%. A team could package multiple players to make it work. This whole idea it needs to be 1 for 1 only applies to second apron teams and there are only a handful, with us being 1.
 

Phrazbit

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The Sixers will have cap space.

It doesn't need to be a 1 for 1 trade unless the other team is also over the 2nd apron. We can trade KD elsewhere for up to his salary in return plus 10%. A team could package multiple players to make it work. This whole idea it needs to be 1 for 1 only applies to second apron teams and there are only a handful, with us being 1.

I know, that is what I said, anyone over the 2nd apron. Between the teams that already are over it and the teams who will have cap holds on players they want to keep, it's going to be nearly impossible to trade him to most teams that are even remotely in contention.

Sixers will only have the space if they renounce the rights to Harris and Hield, I don't see that happening.
 

Covert Rain

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I know, that is what I said, anyone over the 2nd apron. Between the teams that already are over it and the teams who will have cap holds on players they want to keep, it's going to be nearly impossible to trade him to most teams that are even remotely in contention.

Sixers will only have the space if they renounce the rights to Harris and Hield, I don't see that happening.
I didn’t research but I figured it was a short list which basically means it’s not happening. I think the Suns only hope would be to get under the 2nd Apron to give them more flexibility.
 

Phrazbit

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I didn’t research but I figured it was a short list which basically means it’s not happening. I think the Suns only hope would be to get under the 2nd Apron to give them more flexibility.

Maybe they can find someone to take Nurk.

I like the guy, I like his attitude, he gives effort all the time, but he's pretty brutal out there. Terrible under the basket and a total liability on defense.
 

Covert Rain

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Maybe they can find someone to take Nurk.

I like the guy, I like his attitude, he gives effort all the time, but he's pretty brutal out there. Terrible under the basket and a total liability on defense.
Yeah we have to shed 17.5 million to get under the 2nd Apron. That leaves Beal, Book, Nurk or Grayson plus a bench player.
 

Hoop Head

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I know, that is what I said, anyone over the 2nd apron. Between the teams that already are over it and the teams who will have cap holds on players they want to keep, it's going to be nearly impossible to trade him to most teams that are even remotely in contention.

Sixers will only have the space if they renounce the rights to Harris and Hield, I don't see that happening.

Why do we need to send him to a contender? He's not our problem.

There are plenty of teams not over the apron also. Philly won't be, Memphis won't be, Golden State won't be. Plus more than half of the playoff teams won't be over that apron.

Point being, KD has done nothing to deserve to be sent to a team of his choosing. He doesn't have a no trade clause.
 

BirdGangThing

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Why do we need to send him to a contender? He's not our problem.

There are plenty of teams not over the apron also. Philly won't be, Memphis won't be, Golden State won't be. Plus more than half of the playoff teams won't be over that apron.

Point being, KD has done nothing to deserve to be sent to a team of his choosing. He doesn't have a no trade clause.
did you just say golden state bro?
 

Chaplin

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Why do we need to send him to a contender? He's not our problem.

There are plenty of teams not over the apron also. Philly won't be, Memphis won't be, Golden State won't be. Plus more than half of the playoff teams won't be over that apron.

Point being, KD has done nothing to deserve to be sent to a team of his choosing. He doesn't have a no trade clause.
He makes almost 60 MILLION DOLLARS! I don't know if you are deliberately ignoring that or not.
 

Cheesebeef

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I know, that is what I said, anyone over the 2nd apron. Between the teams that already are over it and the teams who will have cap holds on players they want to keep, it's going to be nearly impossible to trade him to most teams that are even remotely in contention.

Sixers will only have the space if they renounce the rights to Harris and Hield, I don't see that happening.
I do. Those guys aren’t long for that club and they’re going to try and max out as much cap space as humanly possible. They’re the perfect team to trade him to.

They probably think they’re only one player away, and it’s getting to now or never time with Embiid because they know they’re on borrowed time with his knees.
 

Hoop Head

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He makes almost 60 MILLION DOLLARS! I don't know if you are deliberately ignoring that or not.

And? That doesn't automatically push teams over the 2nd apron, having 3 players make north of $50 million does. Our big 3 makes more than Orlando's entire roster. We can find a team that can take on his contract without sending them over the 2nd apron.
 

Chaplin

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And? That doesn't automatically push teams over the 2nd apron, having 3 players make north of $50 million does. Our big 3 makes more than Orlando's entire roster. We can find a team that can take on his contract without sending them over the 2nd apron.
Lol which team has either cap room or players to take Kevin Durant? That would actually want him at that price?

I just know you'll come up with some fantasy team. This ain't NBA 2K.
 

Cheesebeef

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Lol which team has either cap room or players to take Kevin Durant? That would actually want him at that price?

I just know you'll come up with some fantasy team. This ain't NBA 2K.
The Sixers will and they are just the kind of team who might take that kind of swing.
 

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