Suns Off-season Thread

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t have a problem with his minutes. Sometimes he played 7-8 min over his game average and sometimes under. That’s how it works on a game to game basic during the season. In the 2nd half of game 2 he was the best player on the floor and during the first half of game 3 he was the worst player on the floor. So you’re either saying he got injured on his day off or regular season minutes caught up to him at that exact moment. CP3’s playoff sample size is 15 years long at this point. It is what it is.

Nah, I'm mostly making a comment without regards to what happened in the postseason. I see no justification for playing Chris Paul 35 plus minutes in 13 of his final 24 games.

 

[Matt L]

Here… we… go…
-

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Who is this guy? Does he have any credibility?

 

[GatorAZ]

Nah, I'm mostly making a comment without regards to what happened in the postseason. I see no justification for playing Chris Paul 35 plus minutes in 13 of his final 24 games.

After the injury when he came back they played a bunch teams in the playoffs or hunt to make it. Maybe it was just a barometer vs good competition before the playoffs.

 

[GatorAZ]

Who is this guy? Does he have any credibility?

Yes and no. Hope that helps.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes and no. Hope that helps.

I would have gone for, some say maybe some say hell no.

 

[WiscoBird]

Our lack of Rebounding killed us in the post season. Too many second chance looks. The way the team is constructed I'm not sure it's an easy fix. Saric coming back will help(if healthy) but Crowder can't be the teams starting 4 next year. We are looking at replacing our 4 and 5 next season. How you improve the interior defense while not hurting the spacing needed on offense is a challenge I'm not sure we can fix.

The only thing I know for sure is Ayton can't be extended. He just doesn't have it in him. The crap part of it is I don't think there is any way to make a deal that makes the team better next season. James Jones has his hands full.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don’t have a problem with his minutes. Sometimes he played 7-8 min over his game average and sometimes under. That’s how it works on a game to game basic during the season. In the 2nd half of game 2 he was the best player on the floor and during the first half of game 3 he was the worst player on the floor. So you’re either saying he got injured on his day off or regular season minutes caught up to him at that exact moment. CP3’s playoff sample size is 15 years long at this point. It is what it is.

I do. His sample size means less and less the older he gets. The season is an 82 game grind BEFORE the playoff grind. He hasn’t been 100% healthy in the playoffs for a very long time. With age it increases the chances.

Also, it’s not the occasional over or under that is the issue. It’s the cumulative toll over an entire season.

Need another starting PG so Monty can manage his minutes and keep them down. I don’t really care if Chris doesn’t like it. He likely isn’t going anywhere.

 

[GatorAZ]

I do. His sample size means less and less the older he gets. The season is an 82 game grind BEFORE the playoff grind. He hasn’t been 100% healthy in the playoffs for a very long time. With age it increases the chances.

Also, it’s not the occasional over or under that is the issue. It’s the cumulative toll over an entire season.

Need another starting PG so Monty can manage his minutes and keep them down. I don’t really care if Chris doesn’t like it. He likely isn’t going anywhere.

If 33 mpg and a month of to rest his lower body isn’t enough then we’re screwed anyway. If he never broke his thumb I guess he would’ve been unplayable for the entire postseason. The probably with minute restrictions is you can’t predict how every game will go. If you want to rest him it should be for full games so the game plan and rotations are clear from the start.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If 33 mpg and a month of to rest his lower body isn’t enough then we’re screwed anyway. If he never broke his thumb I guess he would’ve been unplayable for the entire postseason. The probably with minute restrictions is you can’t predict how every game will go. If you want to rest him it should be for full games so the game plan and rotations are clear from the start.

You don't think it takes longer for a 36 year old to recover from a 42 minute game. Or a bunch of games in the high 30's low 40's over a two or three week stretch? Chris got plenty of rest but you can't save up rest. I'd feel a lot better if those long games of his were spread out over the full season but they weren't.

Like I said before, I'm not suggesting his minutes had anything to do with his postseason disappearance. Most of those long games took place before he was out with the hand. I just think it's stupid to have him playing those kind of minutes at his age. And if we did it last season, I can't help being concerned that we will be just as stupid this next season.

 

[GatorAZ]

You don't think it takes longer for a 36 year old to recover from a 42 minute game. Or a bunch of games in the high 30's low 40's over a two or three week stretch? Chris got plenty of rest but you can't save up rest. I'd feel a lot better if those long games of his were spread out over the full season but they weren't.

Like I said before, I'm not suggesting his minutes had anything to do with his postseason disappearance. Most of those long games took place before he was out with the hand. I just think it's stupid to have him playing those kind of minutes at his age. And if we did it last season, I can't help being concerned that we will be just as stupid this next season.

Paul was tied for 60th in MPG. I guess it depends on how extreme you want to get with minute limitations.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Paul was tied for 60th in MPG. I guess it depends on how extreme you want to get with minute limitations.

Yeah his average was fine and he missed plenty of games. Maybe I'm making too much out of that stretch especially since I don't really believe it factored into our postseason debacle. But I do believe you're walking a tightrope when you play an older guy long minutes unless he can just mail it in on D like Lebron did.

 

[95pro]

I would have really liked to see cp3 subbed out around the 4 minute mark, rather than with 2 min left in the first. The same for Crowder, his energy and toughness can only provide so much. I would have like to see CJ run more with the starters, he'd come in for Crowder with 5/6 min left in the first.

Running cp3 for longer continuous minutes takes a toll, and the lack of timeouts also adds to that.

 

[Finito]

Yeah his average was fine and he missed plenty of games. Maybe I'm making too much out of that stretch especially since I don't really believe it factored into our postseason debacle. But I do believe you're walking a tightrope when you play an older guy long minutes unless he can just mail it in on D like Lebron did.

It’s not a minutes thing with Paul. Payne played as much as any backup PG in the league and Paul sat for a month at the end of the year

Bottom line is he’s just old.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s not a minutes thing with Paul. Payne played as much as any backup PG in the league and Paul sat for a month at the end of the year

Bottom line is he’s just old.

Yes he is. And he has a well established injury history in the postseason. But to me, those are just two very good reasons to seriously manage his minutes during the regular season. I think restricted minutes most of the time is far more important than days off, except for maybe back to backs.

 

[elindholm]

It’s not a minutes thing with Paul. Payne played as much as any backup PG in the league and Paul sat for a month at the end of the year

Bottom line is he’s just old.

Or scared. His history of choking away big playoff leads goes back many years. It's not necessarily an age thing.

 

[how_sweet_it_is]

What I have, personally, wanted to avoid doing is forming opinions on what to do with the roster as opposed to the coach. The only things that seem very clear are that Chris Paul was injured and played when he should not have played, and Monty Williams is at least ultimately (and possibly directly) responsible for that. But the players, esp. DeAndre Ayton, are more of a mystery. Unless there's some news I haven't seen, I have no idea why he allegedly "quit on [the team]."

I just am not eager to see Ayton dumped. Why not? Because drafting a homegrown center who was even somewhat better than average took the Suns franchise [approximately] fifty years and a couple of years of hard tanking, during which they sold the dignity that Jerry Colangelo had earned for the franchise. They gave up so much to get Ayton. I'm sorry he is a mentally weak finesse player, but he's still obviously the best center the Suns ever drafted. Get rid of him, and there may never be another one. Besides, to dump him this summer would be selling low--very low. It would probably be like Charles Barkley's 1996 exit trade.

 

[Covert Rain]

If 33 mpg and a month of to rest his lower body isn’t enough then we’re screwed anyway. If he never broke his thumb I guess he would’ve been unplayable for the entire postseason. The probably with minute restrictions is you can’t predict how every game will go. If you want to rest him it should be for full games so the game plan and rotations are clear from the start.

It was already too late. You can't erase the toll of the regular season and playoffs after the fact.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Try to trade him to Charlotte for Bridges. At least he plays hard every game

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns should keep Ayton unless they get near equal value in return. That's the bottom line.

It should include at least one young player that could develop into a star. Otherwise the Suns should match any offers and keep him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns should keep Ayton unless they get near equal value in return. That's the bottom line.

It should include at least one young player that could develop into a star. Otherwise the Suns should match any offers and keep him.

Yep. Trade Paul to the Lakers for Anthony Davis, re-sign Ayton and trade multiple picks to move up and draft TyTy or JD Davison. Make DA a more integral part of the offense and cross your fingers that more opportunities will help him learn to focus on incoming passes.

 

[how_sweet_it_is]

Yep. Trade Paul to the Lakers for Anthony Davis, re-sign Ayton and trade multiple picks to move up and draft TyTy or JD Davison. Make DA a more integral part of the offense and cross your fingers that more opportunities will help him learn to focus on incoming passes.

Why assume the Lakers (or any team with players you prefer) want to take your unwanted players? Yeah, sure I would like the Suns to use the Lakers to dump their garbage. I just don't think it would usually work.

I, personally, tried years ago to stop playing GM because it becane too much of an embarrassment to me. For the same reason, I told myself to stop opining on who the Suns should draft, because all the busts gradually provoked me to realize that I knew nothing (and felt stupid pretending otherwise).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. Trade Paul to the Lakers for Anthony Davis, re-sign Ayton and trade multiple picks to move up and draft TyTy or JD Davison. Make DA a more integral part of the offense and cross your fingers that more opportunities will help him learn to focus on incoming passes.

I’d be onboard this but I doubt we could pry AD away from lakers with just Paul (though if there were ever any factors that could get this done it would be AD being injured constantly, lebrons buddy buddy with Paul and Paul being infinitely better than Westbrook, and - well - the lakers).

Also we can’t trade “up” as we don’t have any picks this year. We’d have to sign a temp pg like a Rubio again and hope we can land a PGOTF with future picks or FA signing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why assume the Lakers (or any team with players you prefer) want to take your unwanted players? Yeah, sure I would like the Suns to use the Lakers to dump their garbage. I just don't think it would usually work.

I, personally, tried years ago to stop playing GM because it becane too much of an embarrassment to me. For the same reason, I told myself to stop opining on who the Suns should draft, because all the busts gradually provoked me to realize that I knew nothing (and felt stupid pretending otherwise).

Lebron and Chris Paul are close friends. The Lakers are on the hook for more than a 120M over the next 3 seasons for a player that gets injured a lot. Rumors (no idea if there is any merit to them) are they've each soured on the other and Lebron wants another championship badly. Given the money differences, you could easily make a case that it's the Lakers that would be dumping their garbage not us.

All that said, no it almost definitely won't happen. It's just the best scenario I can come up with that isn't beyond the realm of possibility. And it doesn't fix either team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here's another reason why a Paul-to-Lakers trade idea is suspicious. Since lebron james has established a pattern of going to another team and dragging random other superstars along, whenever he doesn't feel like doing his own work to bring his team a championship, haven't you ever wondered why james has never played alongside Chris Paul? Don't assume it was contract restrictions; it's just as likely that Paul and james never wanted to be teammates.

I doubt this. There was a ton of discussion of Paul to lakers last offseason. Don’t think they work together? Not perfectly. But transcendent players often find ways to make it work if they want to. Lebron and Wade were both ball dominant players before teaming up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’d be onboard this but I doubt we could pry AD away from lakers with just Paul (though if there were ever any factors that could get this done it would be AD being injured constantly, lebrons buddy buddy with Paul and Paul being infinitely better than Westbrook, and - well - the lakers).

Also we can’t trade “up” as we don’t have any picks this year. We’d have to sign a temp pg like a Rubio again and hope we can land a PGOTF with future picks or FA signing.

You're right I should have worded that differently. Trade 3 future unprotected picks to move into position to draft one of the highly regarded PG's.