Suns @ Lakers Tuesday game thread 3-2-2021

[WhyAlwaysMe]

My guess is that the bitching actually puts you in a worse light with relation to respect to the officials.

I haven't seen any mention of it, but I hope Devin went out of his way to apologize to the team and to the coaches for getting tossed.

Superstars for decades saying the opposite says otherwise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can be firey and have an edge - but none of that can be directed at the officials - that's just stupid.

Exactly. My pops was a really good basketball player in his 30s. Played in a competitive rec league. But, like cheese and I, had a very competitive temper. I recall him getting tossed. His teammates bitched him out bc he put them at a disadvantage in the game as a result. Be fiery but channel the aggression. Don’t let it be your undoing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Idk. Feel like all the greats rode refs hard. Even coaches like Pop are well known for it.

But the greats also always seemed to have professional relationships with the refs. I recall seeing Jordan and magic laughing with refs before games. Don’t see a lot of that respect these days.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not to excuse Booker but I believe that Covid rules and Lebron factored into Booker getting thrown out. How would you like to be a ref in last night's game with Lebron chirping at you from the tip-off in a fairly empty arena where you can hear every word these guys say? You know quite well the heat you'll take for ejecting Lebron so it's easier to just fire away at this upstart Devin. And most nights, the first ref would be walking away and the other ref would be telling Devin to cool off before he get tossed.

We all know Lebron cries a lot in games, but we don’t know what he says. There’s a world of difference about whining that you didn’t get a call and being disrespectful about what you say.

you can likely get away with “cmon ref you blew that call!” fifty times in a game, but “you’re a bitch” is a world of difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

THT was getting DRAGGED on Lakers’ Twitter. I didn’t really notice it, but apparently he was Amare-level on defense in the 2nd half.

I hadn’t noticed it either. He was still torching us at the other end.

 

[Chaplin]

True. But that new and improved defense allowed Horton-tucker double his typical output against us like he did in the two preseason games. Some players just elevate against certain teams.

In the first half. He wasn't a factor in the 2nd.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Exactly. My pops was a really good basketball player in his 30s. Played in a competitive rec league. But, like cheese and I, had a very competitive temper. I recall him getting tossed. His teammates bitched him out bc he put them at a disadvantage in the game as a result. Be fiery but channel the aggression. Don’t let it be your undoing.

yeah. I got into fights a bunch in soccer and lots of techs in basketball. Even got ejected from one game in high school and one game in college intramurals. Shocking, I know. High school, coach was PISSED at me. I was the captain of the JV team at the time and got kicked out in a close game over a call that was not only BS, but the ref was misapplying the rule awarding FTs. I got booted and stewed in the locker room and had no idea what happened until the team ran in having won in OT. Coach calmed everyone down and then said congrats and singled me out and asked if I had anything to say? My response:

“Did they end up changing that call I got kicked out for?”

Coach hung his head... that wasn’t what he wanted to hear. Especially when one of my teammates said “Yeah, they did.” And I stupidly felt vindicated. On the bus ride home, Coach made it a point to let me know he expected me to apologize to the team... not find out if I was right or not.

The intramural one was pretty funny... I had to go before the intramural sports board and ask for forgiveness (and lie) in order to be allowed to play in the playoffs. That was a really “hearing”. I was a bit of a hothead. Again, shocking, I’m sure.

But my techs were never just for complaint. They were always for making the comment personal to the refs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We all know Lebron cries a lot in games, but we don’t know what he says. There’s a world of difference about whining that you didn’t get a call and being disrespectful about what you say.

you can likely get away with “cmon ref you blew that call!” fifty times in a game, but “you’re a bitch” is a world of difference.

There is but refs get called a lot of names out there and in that kind of situation it's not unusual for them to just walk away and pretend they didn't hear it. Anyway, if he'd called him a bitch for the first T, I could understand a short fuse resulting in a quick second technical but that doesn't appear to be what happened. As I recall the refs writeup said he'd been complaining a lot which earned that first T, yet Lebron was complaining a hell of a lot more to that point.

IMO this was the kind of situation that would normally not result in a player's exit but that's not the same thing as saying that Devin didn't earn it. He crossed a line and he has no room to bitch about the result but as fans, I think we do have that right. We see worse often and the double standard is difficult to accept when it's staring you so clearly in the face.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is but refs get called a lot of names out there and in that kind of situation it's not unusual for them to just walk away and pretend they didn't hear it. Anyway, if he'd called him a bitch for the first T, I could understand a short fuse resulting in a quick second technical but that doesn't appear to be what happened. As I recall the refs writeup said he'd been complaining a lot which earned that first T, yet Lebron was complaining a hell of a lot more to that point.

IMO this was the kind of situation that would normally not result in a player's exit but that's not the same thing as saying that Devin didn't earn it. He crossed a line and he has no room to bitch about the result but as fans, I think we do have that right. We see worse often and the double standard is difficult to accept when it's staring you so clearly in the face.

See I don’t think this is accurate. As fans we almost never know what’s actually said or how it’s said. We see something being said and demonstrative hand motions, but that’s about it. We know frequency but we don’t know actual words. I guarantee you a ref is going to take 10 “cmon, that’s a foul” whines a lot differently than 10 “make a f****** call, *****” comments. We don’t know those things.

 

[Raze]

Hmm, we are deeper than I can recall any suns team since the 93 era, but I don’t know what you say is true.

Which is deeper:

Dario
Cam
Frank/crowder (one of them starts so you can only count one of them)
Payne
Nader
Etwaun
Galloway

kuzma
Harrell
Caldwell-Pope
Wes Matthews
Markieff
Caruso
Horton-tucker

I honestly don't think we are "deeper" in the sense that we have better players. I believe Monty gets more out of his players than most NBA coaches which makes us appear deep (reminiscent of Pop). I mean Frank and Payne were literally cast off by poor teams. Dario and Nader weren't highly sought after, and we were mocked for drafting Cam too high. And yet, we're considered deep (which we of course are).

There is something extremely rare going on here: that is, the whole is greater than the parts.

The truth is that:
James Jones is GMOTY and Monty is HCOTY for taking a broken franchise and instantly making them contenders.
Projected total wins the last two years is 93 (in 82 game seasons)
Won only 87 total games in the prior 4(!!!) years.

The players deserve tons of credit for having humbly and wisely bought in and are reaping the benefits of their selflessness. However, I continually lay the credit at the feet of JJ and Monty for their genius.

And yes, Robert Sarver hired JJ... so I have to give him credit too.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I honestly don't think we are "deeper" in the sense that we have better players. I believe Monty gets more out of his players than most NBA coaches which makes us appear deep (reminiscent of Pop). I mean Frank and Payne were literally cast off by poor teams. Dario and Nader weren't highly sought after, and we were mocked for drafting Cam too high. And yet, we're considered deep (which we of course are).

There is something extremely rare going on here: that is, the whole is greater than the parts.

The truth is that:
James Jones is GMOTY and Monty is HCOTY for taking a broken franchise and instantly making them contenders.
Projected total wins the last two years is 93 (in 82 game seasons)
Won only 87 total games in the prior 4(!!!) years.

The players deserve tons of credit for having humbly and wisely bought in and are reaping the benefits of their selflessness. However, I continually lay the credit at the feet of JJ and Monty for their genius.

And yes, Robert Sarver hired JJ... so I have to give him credit too.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I honestly don't think we are "deeper" in the sense that we have better players. I believe Monty gets more out of his players than most NBA coaches which makes us appear deep (reminiscent of Pop). I mean Frank and Payne were literally cast off by poor teams. Dario and Nader weren't highly sought after, and we were mocked for drafting Cam too high. And yet, we're considered deep (which we of course are).

There is something extremely rare going on here: that is, the whole is greater than the parts.

The truth is that:
James Jones is GMOTY and Monty is HCOTY for taking a broken franchise and instantly making them contenders.
Projected total wins the last two years is 93 (in 82 game seasons)
Won only 87 total games in the prior 4(!!!) years.

The players deserve tons of credit for having humbly and wisely bought in and are reaping the benefits of their selflessness. However, I continually lay the credit at the feet of JJ and Monty for their genius.

And yes, Robert Sarver hired JJ... so I have to give him credit too.

and he spent money this off-season to not only keep the key pieces together but to add as well. Previous years I think we would have had either Dario OR Crowder, not both.

 

[taz02]

I honestly don't think we are "deeper" in the sense that we have better players. I believe Monty gets more out of his players than most NBA coaches which makes us appear deep (reminiscent of Pop). I mean Frank and Payne were literally cast off by poor teams. Dario and Nader weren't highly sought after, and we were mocked for drafting Cam too high. And yet, we're considered deep (which we of course are).

There is something extremely rare going on here: that is, the whole is greater than the parts.

The truth is that:
James Jones is GMOTY and Monty is HCOTY for taking a broken franchise and instantly making them contenders.
Projected total wins the last two years is 93 (in 82 game seasons)
Won only 87 total games in the prior 4(!!!) years.

The players deserve tons of credit for having humbly and wisely bought in and are reaping the benefits of their selflessness. However, I continually lay the credit at the feet of JJ and Monty for their genius.

And yes, Robert Sarver hired JJ... so I have to give him credit too.

Yes, This sums it up pretty well. Monty's leadership is the key element that had been missing. Everything seems to be falling into place, even the disturbing pick of Sarver wearing DA's bling is a positive sign that everyone is clicking. Staying healthy and DA's continued improvement is really all that is needed, a far cry from the past decade. Of course a stud PF would be nice but lets not get greedy....

 

[JCSunsfan]

See I don’t think this is accurate. As fans we almost never know what’s actually said or how it’s said. We see something being said and demonstrative hand motions, but that’s about it. We know frequency but we don’t know actual words. I guarantee you a ref is going to take 10 “cmon, that’s a foul” whines a lot differently than 10 “make a f****** call, *****” comments. We don’t know those things.

The fact that the Suns are not defending Book a day later is telling. It seemed to be quick to me, but you are right about not knowing exactly what he said. I would guess that calling someone a name is one thing, but making any comment that can be interpreted as threatening is another —as in “make you my. . .” Just as an example. It seems Book crossed a recognized line.

Book learned a few things about himself and the character of the team he plays with.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The fact that the Suns are not defending Book a day later is telling. It seemed to be quick to me, but you are right about not knowing exactly what he said. I would guess that calling someone a name is one thing, but making any comment that can be interpreted as threatening is another —as in “make you my. . .” Just as an example. It seems Book crossed a recognized line.

Book learned a few things about himself and the character of the team he plays with.

my worry in Book’s statement after the W is that he didn’t seem to learn anything about himself. He didn’t take responsibility for getting kicked out. He said he’s never seen anything like that in a close game and he’s just moving on. Really didn’t like that attitude. He’s third in the league in technical fouls so far this year. That’s problematic for a guy who is supposed to be one of the leaders of the team, IMO.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

my worry in Book’s statement after the W is that he didn’t seem to learn anything about himself. He didn’t take responsibility for getting kicked out. He said he’s never seen anything like that in a close game and he’s just moving on. Really didn’t like that attitude. He’s third in the league in technical fouls so far this year. That’s problematic for a guy who is supposed to be one of the leaders of the team, IMO.

Wow. Didn’t know that. Realized he’s a bit of a hot head, but that’s a real negative in imo. It speaks to either a lack of self-control or how he’s perceived by refs. In either case it’s not a positive for the team.

at least he’s in reasonable company (lol at josh Jackson - who does he think he is???).
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/fouls-technical?rate=season-totals

 

[AzStevenCal]

See I don’t think this is accurate. As fans we almost never know what’s actually said or how it’s said. We see something being said and demonstrative hand motions, but that’s about it. We know frequency but we don’t know actual words. I guarantee you a ref is going to take 10 “cmon, that’s a foul” whines a lot differently than 10 “make a f****** call, *****” comments. We don’t know those things.

I agree but as I mentioned earlier, his first foul was called due to excessive complaining. They say nothing about foul or abusive language in their report which they would if that were the case:

Spoiler

Referee crew chief Marc Davis announced afterward that Booker received his first "T" for excessive complaining, then got his second for profanity.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree but as I mentioned earlier, his first foul was called due to excessive complaining. They say nothing about foul or abusive language in their report which they would if that were the case:

Spoiler

Referee crew chief Marc Davis announced afterward that Booker received his first "T" for excessive complaining, then got his second for profanity.

Again there are different ways to complain. I look no further than my own two boys.

 

[95pro]

its not like he was quiet all game then said a few words to get a T. Booker has a negative reputation when it comes to him and the refs.

What i've been waiting on all year is for him to get called for stepping in over the 3 point line during a free throw. They called it in a Lakers game while LeBron was shooting a free throw, idr who their opponent was.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think an NBA is good based on the number of GOOD players they have.

Sure you can win with 5 great starters and a few good reserves, but this current Suns team runs like 11 deep. That's a hard out for a lot of teams since the Suns can just beat you with depth. I think Jones understands this concept, and Monty is fairly good at managing this kind of team.

Mike D'Antoni would have a losing record with this team...

 

[elindholm]

Hint at Booker's magic word to referees.

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I remember Pam Postema, baseball's first female umpire to get as high as AAA, said that any player who called her the c-word got tossed automatically. But you'd think that male NBA officials could afford some thicker skins.

 

[Adrian]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I remember Pam Postema, baseball's first female umpire to get as high as AAA, said that any player who called her the c-word got tossed automatically. But you'd think that male NBA officials could afford some thicker skins.

I don’t understand why people think it’s just okay for athletes to direct expletives at refs. I get angry at work but I don’t cuss at people or call them names. Is there a reason we allow such lower expectations for athletes? Trash talk other players? Fine. That’s competition. But the refs aren’t the competition (despite what many of you seem to believe).

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

The fact that the Suns are not defending Book a day later is telling. It seemed to be quick to me, but you are right about not knowing exactly what he said. I would guess that calling someone a name is one thing, but making any comment that can be interpreted as threatening is another —as in “make you my. . .” Just as an example. It seems Book crossed a recognized line.

Book learned a few things about himself and the character of the team he plays with.

it is telling, but it’s easier to be hard on Book when we still won the game.

 

[elindholm]

I don’t understand why people think it’s just okay for athletes to direct expletives at refs. I get angry at work but I don’t cuss at people or call them names. Is there a reason we allow such lower expectations for athletes? Trash talk other players? Fine. That’s competition. But the refs aren’t the competition (despite what many of you seem to believe).

Anyone who has competed knows that, to do your best, you have to be emotionally invested in the outcome. So if you are emotionally invested, that means you're going to have an emotional reaction when something doesn't go your way. It's not "okay" to bark at the officials, but that's what technical fouls are for.

Ejections are rare and are supposed to be reserved for really egregious violations of sportsmanship. To me, calling an official a "bitch" after a bad call does not rise to that level.

If a work superior criticizes something you've done, you can usually count on the decision having been made thoughtfully, and if it's going to impact your career, you'll get some sort of opportunity to respond. So it's really not an equivalent situation. In the NBA, officials make tons of mistakes, partly because they have to make their decisions instantly and without complete information. The players involved are going to be the first ones to know when a call is wrong, it's going to make them angry, and knowing that they have no opportunity to appeal makes them angrier. Of course it doesn't help to lash out, but it's an understandable reaction. Considering all of the transgressions that happen regularly on an NBA court and don't attract attention, I fail to understand how this particular incident rose to the level of being ejection-worthy.