Suns @ Jazz Friday game thread 4-8-2022

[Chaplin]

The Suns clearly didn't play well their last 6-7 games but they still finished 8 games ahead of every other NBA team.

That's something to think about.

Exactly. If we played so badly how come nobody gained any ground on us?

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns clearly didn't play well their last 6-7 games but they still finished 8 games ahead of every other NBA team.

That's something to think about.

This right here. You can be critical of the things that didn't go well while still acknowledging what they did (including their record).

 

[Chaplin]

This right here. You can be critical of the things that didn't go well while still acknowledging what they did (including their record).

Sure, and nobody isn’t acknowledging their accomplishments. It’s when people start melting down, which is definitely what happened. The negativity takes over and assumptions begin to be made.

We can beat any team this year in a seven game series, and I believe no team can beat us in a seven game series.*

*barring injuries

 

[Mainstreet]

I love the fact we can just shut a team down when the game is critical but we are walking a tightrope with this approach. We think we can stand around and watch the other team rack up easy points and extra possessions (from rebounds and loose balls) and that we'll always be able to come back. That's dangerous.

It's not so much the Suns suddenly turn it on during the final minutes of a game although it may appear that way.

The Suns tend to grind teams down over the course of a game by playing a full 48 minutes of basketball. I've heard Monty refer to it as the "wear down effect."

Opponents have to play four full quarters of basketball against the Suns. Most teams don't and that is where the Suns get a lot of their wins. They grind teams down. Of course there is no better closer than Chris Paul.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not so much the Suns suddenly turn it on during the final minutes of a game although it may appear that way.

The Suns tend to grind teams down over the course of a game by playing a full 48 minutes of basketball. I've heard Monty refer to it as the "wear down effect."

Opponents have to play four full quarters of basketball against the Suns. Most teams don't and that is where the Suns get a lot of their wins. They grind teams down. Of course there is no better closer than Chris Paul.

That sounds great but I challenge you to re-read the game threads, the blow by blow write-ups there differ drastically from Monty's take.

I always read the game day threads (even when I don't post in them), usually during the half break or after the game and I can't tell you how many times I've seen you and other posters talk about how weak our defense is, how poor our rebounding efforts are and so on. And then, suddenly we turn it around. Maybe on occasion we've worn them down but as a routine, that isn't what's happening IMO.

Seriously, I can't think of more than a handful of games where we've actually come anywhere close to playing a full 48 minutes.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure, and nobody isn’t acknowledging their accomplishments. It’s when people start melting down, which is definitely what happened. The negativity takes over and assumptions begin to be made.

We can beat any team this year in a seven game series, and I believe no team can beat us in a seven game series.*

*barring injuries

Who melted down? Did I miss something? I didn’t see anybody melting down all of the sudden saying the Suns are not getting out of the first round.

 

[Mainstreet]

That sounds great but I challenge you to re-read the game threads, the blow by blow write-ups there differ drastically from Monty's take.

I always read the game day threads (even when I don't post in them), usually during the half break or after the game and I can't tell you how many times I've seen you and other posters talk about how weak our defense is, how poor our rebounding efforts are and so on. And then, suddenly we turn it around. Maybe on occasion we've worn them down but as a routine, that isn't what's happening IMO.

Seriously, I can't think of more than a handful of games where we've actually come anywhere close to playing a full 48 minutes.

It puzzles me a bit why you want me reread game threads when you know I am a participant.

I read the comments and often respond to some of them during and after the game. They reflect the fans reaction to the ebb and flow of the game. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we get it wrong but it's all part of the fan experience.

In most games I think the Suns wear down opponents over the course of 48 minutes. They are conditioned not to quit and they keep coming at an opponent. It's part of their .5 offense and their defensive mentality. I do believe in the "wear down effect" or as I often call it grinding down an opponent.

Now if you want to say the Suns didn't play well during a certain part of the game, that can be true as well but I'm looking at overall effort. I think a big part of the Suns winning is putting out more effort than the other team over the course of the game.

As I previously mentioned, it doesn't hurt to have Chris Paul close out games either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It puzzles me a bit why you want me reread game threads when you know I am a participant.

I read the comments and often respond to some of them during and after the game. They reflect the fans reaction to the ebb and flow of the game. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we get it wrong but it's all part of the fan experience.

In most games I think the Suns wear down opponents over the course of 48 minutes. They are conditioned not to quit and they keep coming at an opponent. It's part of their .5 offense and their defensive mentality. I do believe in the "wear down effect" or as I often call it grinding down an opponent.

Now if you want to say the Suns didn't play well during a certain part of the game, that can be true as well but I'm looking at overall effort. I think a big part of the Suns winning is putting out more effort than the other team over the course of the game.

As I previously mentioned, it doesn't hurt to have Chris Paul close out games either.

How many times this season have you looked at the Suns trailing in the first half and thought "wow, we're really making them work and it will pay dividends in the second half"? For me, to the best of my recollection, the answer is zero. A few times this season I've just written off a poor first half to facing a hot team but more often than not when we're trailing in the first half I'm disappointed in our effort. And we trail in the first half far too often for our record.

 

[Phrazbit]

How many times this season have you looked at the Suns trailing in the first half and thought "wow, we're really making them work and it will pay dividends in the second half"? For me, to the best of my recollection, the answer is zero. A few times this season I've just written off a poor first half to facing a hot team but more often than not when we're trailing in the first half I'm disappointed in our effort. And we trail in the first half far too often for our record.

I usually feel it's the execution, not the effort. In the first half we will have guys taking shots they shouldn't, making passes that are way too cute and stuff like McGee trying to lead a break or Elfrid Payton being on the court for more than a few minutes. In the 2nd half they tend to clean up what plagued them in the first, they play sharper, they adjust their defensive rotations and grind teams down.

I am in the "not worried" group. Sure, I'd be happy if we were heading into the playoffs with 68 wins, but this team didn't really taper off until that long winning streak ended AND we'd locked up everything. I am far more happy they we're entering the playoffs with everyone in good physical shape (assuming Cam Payne's knee thing was an abundance of precaution).

These guys take losing personal, I really doubt that a couple weeks of basically exhibition basketball has tempered their edge.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I usually feel it's the execution, not the effort. In the first half we will have guys taking shots they shouldn't, making passes that are way too cute and stuff like McGee trying to lead a break or Elfrid Payton being on the court for more than a few minutes. In the 2nd half they tend to clean up what plagued them in the first, they play sharper, they adjust their defensive rotations and grind teams down.

I am in the "not worried" group. Sure, I'd be happy if we were heading into the playoffs with 68 wins, but this team didn't really taper off until that long winning streak ended AND we'd locked up everything. I am far more happy they we're entering the playoffs with everyone in good physical shape (assuming Cam Payne's knee thing was an abundance of precaution).

These guys take losing personal, I really doubt that a couple weeks of basically exhibition basketball has tempered their edge.

Same.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I usually feel it's the execution, not the effort. In the first half we will have guys taking shots they shouldn't, making passes that are way too cute and stuff like McGee trying to lead a break or Elfrid Payton being on the court for more than a few minutes. In the 2nd half they tend to clean up what plagued them in the first, they play sharper, they adjust their defensive rotations and grind teams down.

I am in the "not worried" group. Sure, I'd be happy if we were heading into the playoffs with 68 wins, but this team didn't really taper off until that long winning streak ended AND we'd locked up everything. I am far more happy they we're entering the playoffs with everyone in good physical shape (assuming Cam Payne's knee thing was an abundance of precaution).

These guys take losing personal, I really doubt that a couple weeks of basically exhibition basketball has tempered their edge.

I'm not too far away from this but I will say for a lot of players there's a fine line between not giving effort and not executing - for example, settling for a shot when they could work a little harder to get a better shot, fighting for position and so on can easily look like poor execution.

I love the fact that this team seems to really value each possession in crunch time, I'd just like to see them do it more in the first half.

 

[Chaplin]

Who melted down? Did I miss something? I didn’t see anybody melting down all of the sudden saying the Suns are not getting out of the first round.

You were one of them. It's not a big deal really. We've been conditioned to always think the worst. I'm more confident than you are, but that doesn't mean I haven't had those worries creep up on me.

And it's not because we're Suns fans, it's because internet sports culture has conditioned us this way. I'm sure you see the same types of personalities on other sports message boards for other teams.

 

[Chaplin]

I usually feel it's the execution, not the effort. In the first half we will have guys taking shots they shouldn't, making passes that are way too cute and stuff like McGee trying to lead a break or Elfrid Payton being on the court for more than a few minutes. In the 2nd half they tend to clean up what plagued them in the first, they play sharper, they adjust their defensive rotations and grind teams down.

I am in the "not worried" group. Sure, I'd be happy if we were heading into the playoffs with 68 wins, but this team didn't really taper off until that long winning streak ended AND we'd locked up everything. I am far more happy they we're entering the playoffs with everyone in good physical shape (assuming Cam Payne's knee thing was an abundance of precaution).

These guys take losing personal, I really doubt that a couple weeks of basically exhibition basketball has tempered their edge.

Yep.

 

[Mainstreet]

How many times this season have you looked at the Suns trailing in the first half and thought "wow, we're really making them work and it will pay dividends in the second half"? For me, to the best of my recollection, the answer is zero. A few times this season I've just written off a poor first half to facing a hot team but more often than not when we're trailing in the first half I'm disappointed in our effort. And we trail in the first half far too often for our record.

I really have thought something similar to "we're really making them work and it will pay dividends in the second half."
Maybe not in those particular words but more like if the Suns keep playing their game and play hard, they will usually have a chance to win at the end.

The idea is to stay close and never give up. This is where I think there is a wear down effect on the opponent. They can have a great first half or play three good quarters but the Suns are usually right there in the 4th quarter. In this respect, sometimes the Suns remind of the past Spurs teams that were really good. The Suns just keep coming at you, grinding away.

For me effort and execution go hand-in-hand. While there can be effort without good execution, it takes effort, commitment to coaching and hard work for players to stay with a game plan. The effort always has to be there for it to happen. I really think we are talking about different pieces to the same puzzle.

 

[Covert Rain]

You were one of them. It's not a big deal really. We've been conditioned to always think the worst. I'm more confident than you are, but that doesn't mean I haven't had those worries creep up on me.

And it's not because we're Suns fans, it's because internet sports culture has conditioned us this way. I'm sure you see the same types of personalities on other sports message boards for other teams.

I melted down? No I didn't. You are being overly sensitive and defensive about the team. That's where this "conditioning" comes in. The team has failed so many times people get defensive at the slightest critical thing said. I get it. I have suffered through the lack of winning a title too but it's actually the opposite for me. I can still be critical and recognize the team's success.

Melting down would be acting like the sky is falling and the team is going to fail. Which at no point did I do that. Seriously, that is your definition of melting down? Calling out facts and critiquing is melting down?

JEEBUS. This board sometimes.

 

[Chaplin]

I melted down? No I didn't. You are being overly sensitive and defensive about the team. That's where this "conditioning" comes in. The team has failed so many times people get defensive at the slightest critical thing said. I get it. I have suffered through the lack of winning a title too but it's actually the opposite for me. I can still be critical and recognize the team's success.

Melting down would be acting like the sky is falling and the team is going to fail. Which at no point did I do that. Seriously, that is your definition of melting down? Calling out facts and critiquing is melting down?

JEEBUS. This board sometimes.

LOL -- quite a diatribe you had there. Maybe you should read your reactions.

 

[Covert Rain]

LOL -- quite a diatribe you had there. Maybe you should read your reactions.

You mean after your "splaining" of this original comment?

"Getting into bad habits is hard to break. If you look at the last several weeks, giving up second chance points and turnovers is a pretty big concern. The good news is the team is entering the playoffs healthy and deeper than they have ever been."



OMG.....this is sooooo melting down. Maybe you shouldn't be so sensitive and defensive?

 

[Chaplin]

You mean after your "splaining" of this original comment?

"Getting into bad habits is hard to break. If you look at the last several weeks, giving up second chance points and turnovers is a pretty big concern. The good news is the team is entering the playoffs healthy and deeper than they have ever been."



OMG.....this is sooooo melting down. Maybe you shouldn't be so sensitive and defensive?

People who attack others as being "sensitive" should probably look in the mirror themselves.

You melted down, own it. Nobody said you went full dark side, this isn't the Cardinals board after all.

 

[Covert Rain]

People who attack others as being "sensitive" should probably look in the mirror themselves.

You melted down, own it. Nobody said you went full dark side, this isn't the Cardinals board after all.

You are so dramatic and are way overexaggerating "melting down". Own that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

LOL -- quite a diatribe you had there. Maybe you should read your reactions.

A) I can’t believe this conversation is still going on. It’s going to (hopefully) make me more introspective about some of my conversations in the future; and

B) I don’t think there’s been anything approaching a meltdown. Criticisms or concerns are a legitimate point of discussion. As good as we are, winning a championship isn’t a forgone conclusion. I mean the 73 win warriors didn’t win it all (sorry Russ). As I define a “meltdown” it includes losing all hope and being irrationally emotionally unhinged. I would think most parents would only use that term to describe an outta control, crying or raging child - not a child who is worried about something or discussing rational concerns or observations.

 

[Chaplin]

A) I can’t believe this conversation is still going on. It’s going to (hopefully) make me more introspective about some of my conversations in the future; and

B) I don’t think there’s been anything approaching a meltdown. Criticisms or concerns are a legitimate point of discussion. As good as we are, winning a championship isn’t a forgone conclusion. I mean the 73 win warriors didn’t win it all (sorry Russ). As I define a “meltdown” it includes losing all hope and being irrationally emotionally unhinged. I would think most parents would only use that term to describe an outta control, crying or raging child - not a child who is worried about something or discussing rational concerns or observations.

Haha call it whatever you want. A meltdown on a message board is not the same as a meltdown, you know, in reality. I thought that was inherently understood. I guess not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah… I didn’t see a large meltdown. I saw one or two posters state they think we won’t win the title now after the end of season stretch (a statement which was a major stretch to me), but otherwise, I saw some concern about picking up bad habits. But that was it.

 

[Covert Rain]

A) I can’t believe this conversation is still going on. It’s going to (hopefully) make me more introspective about some of my conversations in the future; and

B) I don’t think there’s been anything approaching a meltdown. Criticisms or concerns are a legitimate point of discussion. As good as we are, winning a championship isn’t a forgone conclusion. I mean the 73 win warriors didn’t win it all (sorry Russ). As I define a “meltdown” it includes losing all hope and being irrationally emotionally unhinged. I would think most parents would only use that term to describe an outta control, crying or raging child - not a child who is worried about something or discussing rational concerns or observations.

Thank you. Logical reasoning still exists.

Yeah… I didn’t see a large meltdown. I saw one or two posters state they think we won’t win the title now after the end of season stretch (a statement which was a major stretch to me), but otherwise, I saw some concern about picking up bad habits. But that was it.

Bingo. That's all it was.

 

[Chaplin]

Thank you. Logical reasoning still exists.

Thanks pal. Way to get personal.

You've got all the guys that either hate me or ignore me on your side, so not sure why you had to imply I'm not logical.

 

[Covert Rain]

Thanks pal.

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