Suns @ Hawks Thursday game thread 2-9-2023

clyde2tw

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Last 2min in the 3rd, they went away from their winning recipe of going through Saben and Okogie on offense, and to Damion for 3 bad shots and each time quick transition points by Hawks. Starting 4th, back to Saben and O, good things happen again.
DA doesn't know to box out for rebounds and always outjumped by athletic rebounders.
 

BirdGangThing

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Still better than what I expected tonight, making the Hawks and Tray Young work for it
 

leclerc

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So who's up next? When are we getting TJ and Bazely in?
 
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Mainstreet

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So who's up next? When are we getting TJ and Bazely in?

Suns play the Pacers on Friday. Afterwards, their next game is at home on February 14th against the Kings.

Hopefully reinforcement arrive soon.
 
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Mainstreet

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I miss the twins.

Ayton had 23 points but it would be nice if he could get more thn 2 rebounds in 30 minutes.
 
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Mainstreet

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I had a guy here tell me rebounds weren’t an indicator of effort. Not to praise him when he gets a lot of rebounds but I bet he’s gonna be criticizing him when he doesn’t rebound lol

I think a lot of rebounds are simply a matter of being in the right position on a play. It's hard to be an inside player and not get more rebounds.
 

TJ

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I didnt watch, but there's absolutely no reason that DA should end a game with 2 rebounds if he plays a full game, especially when he's been getting double-doubles w/ 15 boads at a torrid clip lately. 23 points is good and shows that he's still a focal point in the office, but come on son.
 

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I think a lot of rebounds are simply a matter of being in the right position on a play. It's hard to be an inside player and not get more rebounds.

One issue with today's NBA is that there are far more threes shot in a game and misses tend to carrum further from the basket. Still, 2 boards is dumb
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I had a guy here tell me rebounds weren’t an indicator of effort. Not to praise him when he gets a lot of rebounds but I bet he’s gonna be criticizing him when he doesn’t rebound lol
Garbage post. What we said was you can grab a bunch of rebounds and still lack effort in between those individual plays. Just because you grabbed a rebound one time down the court doesn’t mean you didn’t sit back and watch the next play - which was exactly what had happened that entire game. The only person that bases effort-related arguments solely on numbers would be someone who either didn’t watch the game or has a bias they need to defend.

For instance, last night’s game could’ve been a game where Ayton exerted great effort (it wasn’t) but just couldn’t keep up with capella and onkongwu with no help, but you wouldn’t know it from just looking at the box score. Now, as someone who watched the game I can tell you that wasn’t the case as he repeatedly gave up easy rebound position to capella, but he still could have battled and just lost all night but you wouldn’t know it by his 2 rebounds.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I didnt watch, but there's absolutely no reason that DA should end a game with 2 rebounds if he plays a full game, especially when he's been getting double-doubles w/ 15 boads at a torrid clip lately. 23 points is good and shows that he's still a focal point in the office, but come on son.
He was kinda laughing and free spirited all night. Kinda seemed like he had just chalked up the night as an L and was just going through the motions. He seemed engaged on offense, but that was it. Note he only played 30 minutes and though at times the lead was at 18-20 the suns kept pulling back to within 8-12 keeping it a game.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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One issue with today's NBA is that there are far more threes shot in a game and misses tend to carrum further from the basket. Still, 2 boards is dumb
Again, as someone that watched, that wasn’t the case. Capella and okongwu combined for 28 rebounds. I believe they said there was one possession where capella grabbed four offensive boards. And he wasn’t playing paddycake on the board, each was after a legitimate shot by a teammate of his.
 

Chris_Sanders

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I didnt watch, but there's absolutely no reason that DA should end a game with 2 rebounds if he plays a full game, especially when he's been getting double-doubles w/ 15 boads at a torrid clip lately. 23 points is good and shows that he's still a focal point in the office, but come on son.

I did watch the game and there was a real mix of issues with that rebounding game.

#1. Guys were getting by their men and Ayton had to help, which would put him in poor position for rebounds.
#2. This got so commonplace that at times Ayton was busy watching the person with the ball rather than focusing on Capella.
#3. Capella was going over the back at LOT and getting away with it.

This play below really shows the entire issue. It starts with three guys trying to stop Trey who then dumps it off on Landale's guy

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Ayton plays excellent defense and stops the drive without fouling. Landale recovers but now we have 3 guys in the paint and then for whatever reason Damian Lee decides to go into the paint as well allowing the kick out pass. If he just stays home the defense wins here. Instead the kick out happens and Landale for whatever reason goes to Capella instead of staying with #20.

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Now Lee is beat off the dribble, Ayton has to cover the paint again AND Landale's guy at the 3 point line and he somehow does it.


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Look at the Suns all packed in the paint here before Ayton realizes nobody is covering the shooter and closes space. Everyone is just standing around except Landale who redeems his prior errors by already boxing out Capella

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Right here Landale has position and has Capella locked down. It's 4 Suns versus 2 Hawks

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Capella pushes Landale out of the way no foul and gets the offensive rebound. Ayton is as far from the ball as possible after playing outstanding defense 3 times in a row. 3 other guys watching the ball instead of trying to get it. This is what the box score didn't tell you.


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Despite the 2 rebounds Ayton was not the problem last night. Lee was AWFUL on offense and defense.
 

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95pro

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I'm beginning to think Ayton just isn't smart, he doesn't understand how the ball will come off the rim. This is an extreme example, but Rodman studied a lot of film to see how different shots come off the rim. Ayton's just been about his physical gifts and does nothing to become greater than that.

And we know mentally he's a midget. Look at who he got the 15 rebounds on, the Nets and Pistons, who have centers ranked probably in the 25-30th spot for starting centers.That's the only time he lights up when he plays guys well inferior. Anytime he goes up against a well know center he usually underperforms and just flat out doesn't try harder.
 

TJ

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I'm beginning to think Ayton just isn't smart, he doesn't understand how the ball will come off the rim. This is an extreme example, but Rodman studied a lot of film to see how different shots come off the rim. Ayton's just been about his physical gifts and does nothing to become greater than that.

And we know mentally he's a midget. Look at who he got the 15 rebounds on, the Nets and Pistons, who have centers ranked probably in the 25-30th spot for starting centers.That's the only time he lights up when he plays guys well inferior. Anytime he goes up against a well know center he usually underperforms and just flat out doesn't try harder.
Ayton's not a basketball savant, but he's not stupid. He certainly has to work on things like spacing and boxing out. His issues continue to be assertiveness.

The only elite center he consistently struggles against is Embiid. I cant think of one game against Philly where he played like a top-5 center. He plays his best against Jokic, where Jokic shoots some of his lowest percentage.
 

TJ

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I did watch the game and there was a real mix of issues with that rebounding game.

#1. Guys were getting by their men and Ayton had to help, which would put him in poor position for rebounds.
#2. This got so commonplace that at times Ayton was busy watching the person with the ball rather than focusing on Capella.
#3. Capella was going over the back at LOT and getting away with it.

This play below really shows the entire issue. It starts with three guys trying to stop Trey who then dumps it off on Landale's guy

You must be registered for see images attach


Ayton plays excellent defense and stops the drive without fouling. Landale recovers but now we have 3 guys in the paint and then for whatever reason Damian Lee decides to go into the paint as well allowing the kick out pass. If he just stays home the defense wins here. Instead the kick out happens and Landale for whatever reason goes to Capella instead of staying with #20.

You must be registered for see images attach


Now Lee is beat off the dribble, Ayton has to cover the paint again AND Landale's guy at the 3 point line and he somehow does it.


You must be registered for see images attach


Look at the Suns all packed in the paint here before Ayton realizes nobody is covering the shooter and closes space. Everyone is just standing around except Landale who redeems his prior errors by already boxing out Capella

You must be registered for see images attach


Right here Landale has position and has Capella locked down. It's 4 Suns versus 2 Hawks

You must be registered for see images attach


Capella pushes Landale out of the way no foul and gets the offensive rebound. Ayton is as far from the ball as possible after playing outstanding defense 3 times in a row. 3 other guys watching the ball instead of trying to get it. This is what the box score didn't tell you.


You must be registered for see images attach


Despite the 2 rebounds Ayton was not the problem last night. Lee was AWFUL on offense and defense.

Thx for these photos. Explains why he wasnt in position for some rebounds. Maybe it's lazy analysis on my part and box scores, but Ayton at least has to be under the basket for offensive boards and should be more aggressive recovering after shots. Games that he has something like 7 boards is understandable. 2 just doesnt make sense unless he's hurt
 

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