Status of the defensive line and the draft

[MadCardDisease]

It does feel like no man's land for the Cardinals.

Yeah there really isn't much of a reason to stay put if they can land a guy they want 5-10 spots later in the draft. I think there will be a team desperate enough to move up for a TE, WR or Edge that they covet. Might as well move down and grab extra picks.

I don't see the Cardinals moving up to grab someone. Maybe if Membou drops past 10 for some strange reason but I highly doubt it seeing as so many teams need help at OT.

 

[oaken1]

Just to play devil's advocate, if there is not a player available at 16 that Monti ranks as worthy of a top 16 selection, would you rather he stay and reach for a player, or move back and add a pick?

I say this because I do think it is a possibility. Also why I hope he considers trading up.

I think there are a bunch of guys that fit different systems...but only a couple guys of each type...there should be guys available that fit our system.
But if not. Trade back...but, I would not risk missing out on a guy just to move back 4 spots. The salary savings isn't worth it so the pick compensation would have to be stellar

 

[Chopper0080]

I think the biggest disappointment for many of us is that all signs pointed to him being NFL ready to hit the ground running, and he mostly played like a rookie. In addition, he was definitely not the dog that I thought he would be in terms of physicality/fighting for the ball/coming down with contested catches.

I still expect him to be a very good WR, just not sure he has it in him to be a Larry Fitz type HOF player.

Well...Larry is arguably a top 5 WR of all time so he statistically is unlikely to be as good as him. Maybe settle for top 30 all time. lol

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah there really isn't much of a reason to stay put if they can land a guy they want 5-10 spots later in the draft. I think there will be a team desperate enough to move up for a TE, WR or Edge that they covet. Might as well move down and grab extra picks.

I don't see the Cardinals moving up to grab someone. Maybe if Membou drops past 10 for some strange reason but I highly doubt it seeing as so many teams need help at OT.

Obviously it comes down to cost, but I am willing to give up a 3rd rounder to get player with an actual 1st round grade. I know the trade value chart puts that at roughly 1200 and 10 is 1300, but if it is a buyer's market, why not. The roster doesn't need more Clayton Tune's, Owen Pappoe and Xavier Thomas.

 

[kerouac9]

ranks as worthy of a top 16 selection

This is not really a thing

 

[kerouac9]

The roster doesn't need more Clayton Tune's, Owen Pappoe and Xavier Thomas.

It’s “Claytons Tune. Owens Pappoe, and Xavier’s Thomas.” Thank yew.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Obviously it comes down to cost, but I am willing to give up a 3rd rounder to get player with an actual 1st round grade. I know the trade value chart puts that at roughly 1200 and 10 is 1300, but if it is a buyer's market, why not. The roster doesn't need more Clayton Tune's, Owen Pappoe and Xavier Thomas.

Yeah I don't have a problem moving up with a 3rd rounder if someone the Cardinals are high on drops in the 10-13 range. However I just don't see anyone dropping there that they would make the move for. But then again it's the draft and stranger things have happened. I'm not holding my breath that Carter or Graham drop to anywhere close to #10 overall. I don't even think that Membou gets anywhere close to 10. Those are the guys that I might consider moving up for if I'm the Cardinals

 

[Chopper0080]

This is not really a thing

How about "Ranks in Monti's top tier" or "Monti has a 1st round grade on"?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Another DT I like is the guy from Toledo.
Would probably have to get him round 2, which might be a touch early for him. Probably gone before the 3rd round pick would roll around.

Don’t sleep on Tyliek Williams from OSU in round two either.

 

[Harry]

This is my point. You're arguing for drafting a "stud DT" when nobody in this class stands out as a stud DT. There's no Jalen Carter or Quinnen Williams. I don't think Mason Graham is even guaranteed to be a stud.

Kenneth Grant has some good highlights, but when you watch his normal tape there's some bad stuff in there too.

I'd be fine with drafting iDL, it's just silly to say we HAVE to. We don't have to any more than any other position. And at the same time, I think it's highly unlikely considering we already have 7 guys the team seems to like, 5 of which are absolutely locked in.

What position ever offers guaranteed studs?

 

[BACH]

What position ever offers guaranteed studs?

ZERO..

Some position have better track records than other, but never any garantees

 

[BACH]

It does feel like no man's land for the Cardinals.

I do not share this believe.

Just means that all options are open.

In all likelihood someone higher rated will drop. Monti can then hand in the card or listen to trade calls.

If nobody drops, then you still get a very good player at one of your positions of need or you can trade down.

 

[Gandhi]

I like Mike Green a lot (character issues aside) and I really like Jalon Walker a lot too. Walker has played well on the Edge and at off the ball. His traits suggest he could be a lot better if you find a spot and just stick him there. After hearing about Shemar Stewart's run grades, I wouldn't touch him with a fifty foot pole if you also consider the paltry 4.5 sacks.

Krang, what do you see in Walker? I am asking because I am very confused myself. In one way, he is too small for an edge rusher, and I am just not a fan of that. On the other, he is a great player, and in many ways meet the criteria for a “Gannon player.” I heard a theory the other day that nowadays open space tackles might be equally important for an edge rusher than winning one-on-ones because of the evolution in QB-play where all of them run around to an extent. I don’t think I agree with that theory, but at least Walker is a wonderful sort of QB spy. Further, he could be a great scheme fit as the SAM in their Penny defense, but at the same time might not need to ever come of the field because he also covers Kyzir White’s role in base-defense.

I don’t know. I am in doubt, but what I do know that I think is that he is one of a few players that many could be tempted to trade up for, and if Ossenfort and Gannon see him as a great fit, I could see them consider a trade up as well.

 

[Gandhi]

Don’t sleep on Tyliek Williams from OSU in round two either.

Might be the best scheme fit of any player in the entire draft. I would be highly excited if they got him in the second round (obviously depending on what they do in the first).

 

[Stout]

Just to play devil's advocate, if there is not a player available at 16 that Monti ranks as worthy of a top 16 selection, would you rather he stay and reach for a player, or move back and add a pick?

I say this because I do think it is a possibility. Also why I hope he considers trading up.

If he hasn't adequately read the draft and traded up to get his guy, stick and pick. None of the "Aw, we traded back but then our guy got taken" nonsense. I don't want to see another 2024 draft Rd 2 situation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Krang, what do you see in Walker? I am asking because I am very confused myself. In one way, he is too small for an edge rusher, and I am just not a fan of that. On the other, he is a great player, and in many ways meet the criteria for a “Gannon player.” I heard a theory the other day that nowadays open space tackles might be equally important for an edge rusher than winning one-on-ones because of the evolution in QB-play where all of them run around to an extent. I don’t think I agree with that theory, but at least Walker is a wonderful sort of QB spy. Further, he could be a great scheme fit as the SAM in their Penny defense, but at the same time might not need to ever come of the field because he also covers Kyzir White’s role in base-defense.

I see a guy with crazy burst. He would instantly be probably the most athletic guy on the Cardinals defense. Yes he's undersized, but he's a natural football player and he takes on blocks really well for a smaller guy. He's the type of guy who is going to have games where he just overwhelms a lesser tackle.

All accounts, he was a big time leader for the Georgia D. While I don't think he's going to be a guy you feature, I very much think he can be a chess piece that you move around and he can exploit match ups with his movement skills and ability to attack blockers. He's an extremely smart football player and you can see that on tape.

I don’t know. I am in doubt, but what I do know that I think is that he is one of a few players that many could be tempted to trade up for, and if Ossenfort and Gannon see him as a great fit, I could see them consider a trade up as well.

I don't think you trade up for him. I don't think the Cardinals should trade up for anyone in this draft. To me, this draft has few blue chip players, but a lot of red chip players.

 

[BritCard]

just not sure he has it in him to be a Larry Fitz type HOF player.

Dude, Larry had a 780-yard rookie season

 

[BritCard]

What position ever offers guaranteed studs?

No position offers guarantees, but there are players where you'd be surprised if they were a bust or weren't great. There's far less of them in this class than normal at the top.

 

[BritCard]

I see a guy with crazy burst. He would instantly be probably the most athletic guy on the Cardinals defense. Yes he's undersized, but he's a natural football player and he takes on blocks really well for a smaller guy. He's the type of guy who is going to have games where he just overwhelms a lesser tackle.

All accounts, he was a big time leader for the Georgia D. While I don't think he's going to be a guy you feature, I very much think he can be a chess piece that you move around and he can exploit match ups with his movement skills and ability to attack blockers. He's an extremely smart football player and you can see that on tape.


I don't think you trade up for him. I don't think the Cardinals should trade up for anyone in this draft. To me, this draft has few blue chip players, but a lot of red chip players.

I just get Isaiah Simmons vibes with Jalon Walker. That similar tweener type who looks great in college against future insurance salesman. Find it a whole different game when you get to the NFL.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I just get Isaiah Simmons vibes with Jalon Walker. That similar tweener type who looks great in college against future insurance salesman. Find it a whole different game when you get to the NFL.

Naw he was used around the line of scrimmage exclusively. None of this safety or nickel crap. Jalon was also a leader and has some dog in him, while Simmons is very soft spoken and more of a pretty boy.

 

[BACH]

If he hasn't adequately read the draft and traded up to get his guy, stick and pick. None of the "Aw, we traded back but then our guy got taken" nonsense. I don't want to see another 2024 draft Rd 2 situation.

The problem with that argument is that YOUR guy got taken. We do not know if Monti's and Gannon's guy got taken. The fact that Monti made the trade suggest that they had the same grade on Melton as the rest

 

[Krangodnzr]

Again, all of this for WR, CB and OL.

Tet looks more like another Mike Williams.

Matthew Golden looks like Marquise Brown or maybe Jordan Addison but not at 1 or 1B WR.

Is Will Johnson Eric Stokes or Marshon Lattimore? I don't really know.

Is Kevin Banks more Alex Leatherwood or Elijah Vera Tucker? He looks like it to me.

And if all of these positions are a toss up, I would rather gamble on a defensive front player than a RT or WR2. Those are much easier to find year over year IMO.

This comment can be said about almost every 1st round pick. I was initially excited about this crop but the more I look at them, the less I like this class.

Even Abdul Carter isn't complete. Dude is on the ground way too often and he just essentially beats everyone with his bend and burst. Not a sophisticated rusher with an assortment of moves. The hype doesn't meet the tape. Good player and worthy of going high on traits alone, but he just doesn't scream immediate franchise defensive player. I think he can get there during his rookie contract but I'm extremely skeptical that he will do it in year one.

The only guy that I think could be really good immediately is Travis Hunter because he's such a smart football player, he's an elite athlete, and he's extremely versatile.

I really like Membou for sure and would consider moving up to get him.

 

[TruColor]

It’s “Claytons Tune. Owens Pappoe, and Xavier’s Thomas.” Thank yew.

I think "Clayton's Tune" was one of Benny Goodman's hits in the '40s.

 

[Gandhi]

I see a guy with crazy burst. He would instantly be probably the most athletic guy on the Cardinals defense. Yes he's undersized, but he's a natural football player and he takes on blocks really well for a smaller guy. He's the type of guy who is going to have games where he just overwhelms a lesser tackle.

Then we see the same. Hence, a "Gannon player".

I don't think you trade up for him. I don't think the Cardinals should trade up for anyone in this draft. To me, this draft has few blue chip players, but a lot of red chip players.

No, I didn't say that. I would not trade up for him, but that is not the same as what I think might happen.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Then we see the same. Hence, a "Gannon player".


No, I didn't say that. I would not trade up for him, but that is not the same as what I think might happen.

I see Walker's athletic profile as being similar to Haason Reddick.