Should Ayton be Traded?

Should the Suns trade Ayton?

  • Yes, trade him ASAP

  • Maybe, depends on who is hired as coach

  • No, let's see what he can do without Monty


Results are only viewable after voting.
OP
OP
Hoop Head

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,227
Reaction score
11,239
Location
Tempe, AZ
You didn't offer a "trade him if you can get a decent return" option which would be my preference. So I'll have to vote to keep him.

Thought that fell under "maybe" since it's a bit of both, shop him but don't commit to a decision unless a decent return is available. Probably should have left the coach part off of maybe.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
Trade DeAndre Simmons - like pronto - and hope everybody hasn't already figured it out
Every sports personality has been talking about his obvious deficiencies, some of them for a few years now. If it's still a secret to anyone they aren't from this solar system.
 
OP
OP
Hoop Head

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,227
Reaction score
11,239
Location
Tempe, AZ
Every sports personality has been talking about it, some of them for a few years now. If it's still a secret to anyone they aren't from this solar system.

They have been talking but there's also been a lot of chatter about how he could realize his potential without Monty going forward so I think we need to sell high on that. If he stinks, which he will at some point even if he does start well, then his value will really plummet and the Suns can't afford to take that risk.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
They have been talking but there's also been a lot of chatter about how he could realize his potential without Monty going forward so I think we need to sell high on that. If he stinks, which he will at some point even if he does start well, then his value will really plummet and the Suns can't afford to take that risk.
The only people I've heard that from are the fans that were still in his corner until just recently. Are you seeing it elsewhere, from non UA or Ayton fans?

Keep in mind, I fall in that group that thinks he could possibly realize his potential without Monty. But that's only when weighed against what I think we can get for him. I think we all we can get are bad contracts and end of bench players. And I think trying to turn him into what he should be is likely to fail, it just has a slightly better chance of paying off over the other one IMO.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Hoop Head

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,227
Reaction score
11,239
Location
Tempe, AZ
The only people I've heard that from are the fans that were still in his corner until just recently. Are you seeing it elsewhere, from non UA or Ayton fans?

Keep in mind, I fall in that group that thinks he could possibly realize his potential without Monty. But that's only when weighed against what I think we can get for him. I think we all we can get are bad contracts and end of bench players. And I think trying to turn him into what he should be is likely to fail, it just has a slightly better chance of paying off over the other one IMO.

I've seen it all over Twitter and Reddit among NBA fans in general. I don't think they're biased but I haven't heard it from any talking heads yet.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,451
Reaction score
784
Location
Gilbert, AZ
The guys that killed me are like Kendrick Perkins who droned on and on about how the Phoenix Suns should just pay the Man because he had earned his maximum contract. I didn't want to lose him for nothing over the summer so I was fine with matching.

Unless they can get a decent return for him I would like to see what a different coaching staff can do with him. Dude needs a curfew and a boatload of melatonin so he gets eight solid hours of sleep and then a big shot of bull testosterone. He's just so timid and afraid of contact with opponents and the basket. He really is a physical specimen, but he has a teddy bear personality. Like a Winnie the Pooh personality. We need a grizzly bear… Not Morant waving a pistol grizzly bear, but someone aggressive.

Joe
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
The guys that killed me are like Kendrick Perkins who droned on and on about how the Phoenix Suns should just pay the Man because he had earned his maximum contract. I didn't want to lose him for nothing over the summer so I was fine with matching.

Unless they can get a decent return for him I would like to see what a different coaching staff can do with him. Dude needs a curfew and a boatload of melatonin so he gets eight solid hours of sleep and then a big shot of bull testosterone. He's just so timid and afraid of contact with opponents and the basket. He really is a physical specimen, but he has a teddy bear personality. Like a Winnie the Pooh personality. We need a grizzly bear… Not Morant waving a pistol grizzly bear, but someone aggressive.

Joe
I was looking for the plus 100 button for all of this. And yes, we were crucified by the mouthy so-called experts like Perkins when we didn't rush to pay him the max. He wasn't the only one but he was one of the more adamant. He's certainly done a full 180 but not once have I ever heard him say "wow, I was way wrong on this guy".
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,241
Reaction score
3,829
This is a tough one for me because I want him gone for his lack of effort and heart. Physical gifts aren’t the issue.

But Monty is gone. If Monty has several issues with other players then I’m going to put this more on Monty than Ayton.

Monty is the problem for several guys too. He didn’t get the twins in a good situation to show improvement despite them being older players and good people. He didn’t have sets for Booker or Durant to work through as well.

Last ayton just doesn’t have the trade value to net is anything good in return, we probably have to settle for a couple of bench contributors and be left with a hole to fill at center.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
This is a tough one for me because I want him gone for his lack of effort and heart. Physical gifts aren’t the issue.

But Monty is gone. If Monty has several issues with other players then I’m going to put this more on Monty than Ayton.

Monty is the problem for several guys too. He didn’t get the twins in a good situation to show improvement despite them being older players and good people. He didn’t have sets for Booker or Durant to work through as well.

Last ayton just doesn’t have the trade value to net is anything good in return, we probably have to settle for a couple of bench contributors and be left with a hole to fill at center.
If I had to bet I'd lean towards it being more on Ayton than Monty. But our best chance to get decent value out of DA is if it turns out that Monty was the wrong coach and someone else can move him closer to stardom.

Personally, I'd attach a monitor on him and every time he fails to get a good night's sleep I'd shock the hell out of him. You can't be physically and mentally exhausted before you even step on the court (practice or game) and still be at your best.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
I'm fairly certain some would be against that trade due to Embiid's injury history despite missing less games than Durant the last few years.
With Embiid it's not just the games he misses but the 4th quarters he runs out of gas in because he can't get and stay in shape due to his injuries. I know he gives you more in a quarter than DA gives you in a whole game but I am on the never trade for or sign an injury prone basketball player bandwagon so I'd pass.

I would have passed if the deal had been offered 4 or 5 years ago and hindsight makes that decision look extremely foolish. But as a Suns fan, I know two things. Embiid wouldn't get away with the crap he pulls if he were wearing a Suns uniform. And if we'd traded for him his leg would have fallen off within a month or two. Just say no to the oft-injured.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
12,419
Reaction score
16,021
Location
Arcadia
Again, it wasn't just Monty. Nobody on the team could get Ayton's balls to drop

DeAndre Ayton is a peter pan never growing up toys r us kid type kind of cat - singing "Forever Young" at karaoke - because he'd rather just be happy.

That's okay tho we've seen some incredibly happy and incredibly successful players in this League - Magic Johnson comes to mind. But Magic Johnson's happy ass came into the league ready to compete. Never pouted at the end of the bench or refused to play. Never went deaf.

24 years old - and he's still a fixer upper? Do we really want to see Devin Booker's heart crushed in the playoffs again because Ayton doesn't have any heart in the playoffs again?

And don't get me started on the money. Between Ayton and CP3 I'm surprised James Jones still has a job - but back to frustrAyton - he's just gotta go
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,930
Reaction score
62,026
Again, it wasn't just Monty. Nobody on the team could get Ayton's balls to drop

DeAndre Ayton is a peter pan never growing up toys r us kid type kind of cat - singing "Forever Young" at karaoke - because he'd rather just be happy.

That's okay tho we've seen some incredibly happy and incredibly successful players in this League - Magic Johnson comes to mind. But Magic Johnson's happy ass came into the league ready to compete. Never pouted at the end of the bench or refused to play. Never went deaf.

24 years old - and he's still a fixer upper? Do we really want to see Devin Booker's heart crushed in the playoffs again because Ayton doesn't have any heart in the playoffs again?

And don't get me started on the money. Between Ayton and CP3 I'm surprised James Jones still has a job - but back to frustrAyton - he's just gotta go
Yeah… gotta agree.

Look, I believe Monty held back Bridges and Cam’s development so maybe there’s credence to the fact that he held back Ayton. But that didn’t keep Bridges and Cam from always playing REALLY hard. They at least had that in them even if they were frustrated with their lack of roles on the team.

Ayton just doesn’t have that playing really hard work ethic in him. That’s not an issue a coach can correct, IMO. It’s maybe something a different coach can improve for a period of time, but a player either has that heart in them or they don’t. And no title team is ever gonna win with their third highest player who just doesn’t have a hunger to win.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,453
Location
Arizona
They have to trade Ayton for two reasons. One all the reasons people put above. Two because how else are the Suns going to get enough pieces around Booker/Durant to win a title? The teams hands will be tied.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
They have to trade Ayton for two reasons. One all the reasons people put above. Two because how else are the Suns going to get enough pieces around Booker/Durant to win a title? The teams hands will be tied.
The team's hands are tied. But if Ayton has enough value to get us the kind of pieces we want to put around Booker and KD, I suspect he will be traded. I just don't have any idea why he'd bring us back anything but bad contracts, and/or marginal players/cancers? To me, he is earning far more than he is worth and with 5 years of history, it's not like the rest of the league is ignorant of his lackadaisical approach to the game.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,453
Location
Arizona
The team's hands are tied. But if Ayton has enough value to get us the kind of pieces we want to put around Booker and KD, I suspect he will be traded. I just don't have any idea why he'd bring us back anything but bad contracts, and/or marginal players/cancers? To me, he is earning far more than he is worth and with 5 years of history, it's not like the rest of the league is ignorant of his lackadaisical approach to the game.
Because there is allegedly sentiment around the league that Monty mishandled Ayton. There are also always teams out there every year that will feel that they can do a better job with someone else's players. Ayton is still young. I was listening to national radio since we got bounced and multiple media guys repeated the same sentiment multiple times. Have no idea how true that is I sure hope it is.
 
Last edited:

Dan H

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
5,073
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Circle City, IN
Because there is allegedly sentiment around the league that Monty mishandled Ayton. There are also always teams out there every year that will feel that they can do a better job with someone else's players. Ayton is still young. I was listening to national radio since we got bounced and multiple media guys repeated the same sentiment multiple times. Haven no idea how true that is I sure hope it is.
It’s just like girls dating the guys with rap sheets because “I can fix him.”
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
Because there is allegedly sentiment around the league that Monty mishandled Ayton. There are also always teams out there every year that will feel that they can do a better job with someone else's players. Ayton is still young. I was listening to national radio since we got bounced and multiple media guys repeated the same sentiment multiple times. Haven no idea how true that is I sure hope it is.
We'll see. I think there are some GMs out there that might be willing to gamble they can get a little more out of him and would be willing to take on his contract. So maybe they give us some expiring contracts, a Bazley clone and a second round pick but I just don't see why any team would give us what we need in return. Hope I'm wrong.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,084
Reaction score
14,967
Shama Charania in his interview on Arizona sports today thinks Deandre Ayton holds significant value.
I'd like to see what he means by significant value. I doubt it means giving us back 33 million dollars worth of real assets. Maybe a GM thinks he's worth 2/3rds of his contract but I don't get why he'd absorb the upside down part and still give us two rotation players or a solid starter for him. But that's probably why I'm not a GM.

But I'd wager that one of the sources that's trying to punp up DA's value comes from our front office or from DA's agent.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,501
Reaction score
12,453
Location
Arizona
I'd like to see what he means by significant value. I doubt it means giving us back 33 million dollars worth of real assets. Maybe a GM thinks he's worth 2/3rds of his contract but I don't get why he'd absorb the upside down part and still give us two rotation players or a solid starter for him. But that's probably why I'm not a GM.

But I'd wager that one of the sources that's trying to punp up DA's value comes from our front office or from DA's agent.
Yeah....Shams repeated it as well. I have to imagine these guys have their ears to the ground. It's seems to be a growing sentiment in the media across the league not just local. I hope that is the case because IMO, Ayton is our best bet to move money around and get pieces this team needs for a title. I just don't see what other choices we have. We could make minor adjustments to the bench and hope a new coach with a pedigree can push us over the top. I just don't see Isbia as a "run it back" type dude.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,291
Reaction score
52,921
I'd like to see what he means by significant value. I doubt it means giving us back 33 million dollars worth of real assets. Maybe a GM thinks he's worth 2/3rds of his contract but I don't get why he'd absorb the upside down part and still give us two rotation players or a solid starter for him. But that's probably why I'm not a GM.

It is vague but I'm glad to hear someone reputable from the national media say this who has access to multiple sources.

My guess, other coaches might have different ideas on how to use Ayton.
 
Top