Sean Kugler Fired

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BritCard

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Our former RB coach, James Saxon, assaulted a woman (in front of two young children) in May, wasn't placed on paid admin leave until August, and was allowed to resign in October (after pleading guilty to domestic battery).

Kugler allegedly groped a woman and was gone overnight.

One was in the offseason in his private life and was an accusation until proven otherwise.

The other happened on the teams dime with NFL cameras rolling nearby.

Apples and Oranges.
 

TRW

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Yes it is. Give me a break.

Making a drunken pass at an unwilling woman is gross, but it's not a crime.

It either has to be something so over the top that you can't send him out the next day (don't even know what this would be that I could post on this board) or it was someone so inappropriate that you have to take immediate action.

I'm not an MRA by any means, but if this is private behavior during off hours, the Cards' reaction is pretty extreme. That this is happening a night before a game is inexcusable and an indication of the lack of institutional control from the top down.
"A drunken pass"? Report is he groped a woman that is not just a pass, that is assault.
 

QuebecCard

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Yes it is. Give me a break.

Making a drunken pass at an unwilling woman is gross, but it's not a crime.

It either has to be something so over the top that you can't send him out the next day (don't even know what this would be that I could post on this board) or it was someone so inappropriate that you have to take immediate action.

I'm not an MRA by any means, but if this is private behavior during off hours, the Cards' reaction is pretty extreme. That this is happening a night before a game is inexcusable and an indication of the lack of institutional control from the top down.

Groping implies physical contact.

A drunken pass can be nothing more than inappropriate words.

There is a difference, and the first can be deemed an assault.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Get outa here with this assumptive nonsense
What assumptive nonsense? You asked if it was the HC's girlfriend. I asked you if it mattered who he groped? (Because it doesn't matter who he groped.)
"A drunken pass"? Report is he groped a woman that is not just a pass, that is assault.
This...he's very lucky the Mexican government went to the Cardinals and allowed him to leave the country. This would leave me to believe it was probably a tourist he groped, not a Mexican citizen.

And yes, groping can easily be a SA charge.
 

juza76

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"grope" is a nice way of saying he forced his way on someone sexually.

If you pulled that at my company i would fire you, that minute.
agree but..
DUI is even worse cause can kill someone, but in that case bidwill turned a blind eye
Rules must be for everyone to set an example
 

BigRedRage

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What assumptive nonsense? You asked if it was the HC's girlfriend. I asked you if it mattered who he groped? (Because it doesn't matter who he groped.)
This...he's very lucky the Mexican government went to the Cardinals and allowed him to leave the country. This would leave me to believe it was probably a tourist he groped, not a Mexican citizen.

And yes, groping can easily be a SA charge.
Assumptive nonsense, because yes, in the big picture it doesnt matter who he groped, but, you are assuming that the humor meant otherwise.
 

BritCard

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What assumptive nonsense? You asked if it was the HC's girlfriend. I asked you if it mattered who he groped? (Because it doesn't matter who he groped.)
This...he's very lucky the Mexican government went to the Cardinals and allowed him to leave the country. This would leave me to believe it was probably a tourist he groped, not a Mexican citizen.

And yes, groping can easily be a SA charge.

I don't believe the Card's left the hotel so it was most likely a maid, waitress etc. I'm not sure where this "drunken groping" idea comes from.

There would be no drinking. The team don't let coaches get drunk on game trips.
 

gimpy

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Making a drunken pass at an unwilling woman is gross, but it's not a crime.
Not sure what "groping" means here (touching? Physically forcing?, etc.). I think you should probably look up the definition of groping in state law statutes before making that statement.
 

kerouac9

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"A drunken pass"? Report is he groped a woman that is not just a pass, that is assault.
That, unfortunately, is the gray area in which the Cards Media Department has decided to play with this story.

By a legal definition, a lot of stuff is assault. There is no legal definition of "grope", but obviously the Crisis PR team understands that very well.
 

kerouac9

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I don't believe the Card's left the hotel so it was most likely a maid, waitress etc. I'm not sure where this "drunken groping" idea comes from.

There would be no drinking. The team don't let coaches get drunk on game trips.
You don't have any actual evidence to support any of this. Like, none of it.
 

BritCard

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You don't have any actual evidence to support any of this. Like, none of it.

About as much as your asertions.

No teams allow coaches to get drunk of game trips. There were no media reports of the Cardinals doing anything outside the hotel. Had they done some charity or NFL promotional thing it would have been reported.
 

Brian in Mesa

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One was in the offseason in his private life and was an accusation until proven otherwise.

The other happened on the teams dime with NFL cameras rolling nearby.

Apples and Oranges.
What happened with Kugler is legally just an accusation until proven otherwise. Was he charged with an offense? Clearly not if he was allowed to leave the country. Just strange how quickly he was fired rather than just sent home for disciplinary reasons to be dealt with at a later date. Again, we do not know all the facts. Typical with this organization.
 

kerouac9

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About as much as your asertions.

No teams allow coaches to get drunk of game trips. There were no media reports of the Cardinals doing anything outside the hotel. Had they done some charity or NFL promotional thing it would have been reported.
This is entirely speculation on your part again. It's silly.
 

Chopper0080

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Uh, maybe he didn't claim it, but most of this board sure convinced themselves early on that he was going to come in here and make a major NFL impact with his offense.

Also, let's not pretend Kyler Murray was in our plans for #1 overall until Kliff was hired. He was brought here to hopefully fix Rosen, the comments about KK saying he'd take Kyler #1 overall surfaced in the media again, and then Keim and co. talked themselves into it (or changed their evaluation, which is fine, but it's not like Kyler was being talked about as a surefire bet to go at 1).

Anyways, on to Kugler, I wish we knew what happened here. But I think he was a little overrated when we got him. People were convinced we had the best OL coach in the league.
Yes, 4 years ago people had hope that Kingsbury would work. Just like 4 years ago people had hope that Kyler was going to a top NFL QB. 4 years later, nobody is claiming either of this things are true that I can see. If people were still spouting this nonsense I get why it would be mentioned in every thread but nobody is and it shouldn't be.
 

BurqueCardFan

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I don't believe the Card's left the hotel so it was most likely a maid, waitress etc. I'm not sure where this "drunken groping" idea comes from.

There would be no drinking. The team don't let coaches get drunk on game trips.
LOL. To suggest drinking doesn't take place by the staff at road games is funny. How naïve of you.
 

BurqueCardFan

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I just saw that Kugler went to college and coached at UTEP.
He must have forgot he wasn't in Juarez. Mexico City is much too sophisticated for that kind of stuff. In Juarez, this stuff is another day at the office.
 

BritCard

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LOL. To suggest drinking doesn't take place by the staff at road games is funny. How naïve of you.

I didn't say they didn't drink. I said they do not get drunk.

They might have a beer or two. There is no freaking way coaches are allowed to get drunk on game trips. Insane to think otherwise. Teams hold coaches to the same standards as players. As they should.
 

Brian in Mesa

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So theoretically we just need a woman (or two women) to accuse Keim and Kingsbury of allegedly groping them…then the team can simply fire them with no investigation or anything. Solves some of our problems right there.
 

BritCard

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So theoretically we just need a woman (or two women) to accuse Keim and Kingsbury of allegedly groping them…then the team can simply fire them with no investigation or anything. Solves some of our problems right there.

How do you know there was no investigation?

It's just as likely the police looked into it, decided it was valid, but as the guy was a tourist and flying out in 2 days they decided it was not worth their time and instead reported it to the Cardinals.
 

oaken1

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How do you know there was no investigation?

It's just as likely the police looked into it, decided it was valid, but as the guy was a tourist and flying out in 2 days they decided it was not worth their time and instead reported it to the Cardinals.
you think they took up a pool among coaches to pay the fine??

everyone I know who has ever had a run in with police in mexico got fined the exact same amount... How much cash you have with you... 500 quid or 3500 quid...whatever you got, thats the fine... otherwise it is time to go rot in a mexican jail where you might not see a judge for 5 years.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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It doesn't have to be a crime.

It just has to be behavior that the organisation finds unacceptable. Especially on a road trip to a country the NFL hasn't played in for some time with NFL cameras recording.

Considering they flew in pretty late and never left the hotel this can only be a maid, waitress etc and it would have to be pretty bad for them to contact police because they get that **** all the time.

They flew in on Saturday afternoon and the game was Monday night. Never left the hotel? Can only be this or that? Why make stuff up when you have no idea?
 
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