Random draft gurus tidbits 2021

[Solar7]

Except we’re not really deep at pass-rush & please do not group RB & CB together. We’ve been over this.

We're not necessarily deep at pass rush but we're adequate. We are well below league average at those positions.

 

[DVontel]

We're not necessarily deep at pass rush but we're adequate. We are well below league average at those positions.

Which I don’t mind going CB in round 1 then EDGE at round 2 in which Chop indicated. I’m not ignoring CB clearly.

 

[Chopper0080]

I really doubt we're trading down enough to net a 3rd and 4th while keeping a 1st rounder. 4th round is too late to go RB.


Aren't you the one talking about value? We can't afford to draft a guy in the top two rounds who is going to take less than 50% of the snaps. Young pass rush is important, but we still suck in coverage and our offense will sputter putting Edmonds out there.


Enjoy Andre Ellington 2.0 then.

I had no issue with Andre Ellington. 2 seasons of over 1000 combined yards rushing and receiving. Great value.

 

[BritCard]

A team stacked 8 deep at edge with garbage at RB and CB isn't going anywhere. Teams will work around the pass rush.

CJ 31. Last year of deal.
Watt 32. Short term deal.
Golden 30. Cheap and easily cut.

After that it's Gardeck and Fitts.

EDGE is still very much a need.

 

[Solar7]

I had no issue with Andre Ellington. 2 seasons of over 1000 combined yards rushing and receiving. Great value.

And the moment we got an RB with actual size and speed, the team started winning and producing a whole hell of a lot better than that.

Sure, Ellington was a fine complementary back, but the team was going nowhere with him as our starter because he couldn't hold up to a full season load.

That's the issue right now. Edmonds goes down (or plays subpar which I'm even more worried about), and who is really going to take the load? A 5th round rookie? Eno Benjamin? That's just daring to force Kyler to throw on every down and have to play hero ball.

Kyler needs more offensive weapons, not less.

 

[Chopper0080]

I really doubt we're trading down enough to net a 3rd and 4th while keeping a 1st rounder. 4th round is too late to go RB.


Aren't you the one talking about value? We can't afford to draft a guy in the top two rounds who is going to take less than 50% of the snaps. Young pass rush is important, but we still suck in coverage and our offense will sputter putting Edmonds out there.


Enjoy Andre Ellington 2.0 then.

Another thiing. The 8th highest paid RB averages 8mil per year. The 8th highest paid edge player averages 17 mil per year. One seems cheaper and easier to address than the other.

 

[Solar7]

CJ 31. Last year of deal.
Watt 32. Short term deal.
Golden 30. Cheap and easily cut.

After that it's Gardeck and Fitts.

EDGE is still very much a need.

CB:
Byron Murphy. Nickel CB. Deal expires after 2022.
No other CBs under contract for 2022.

RB:
Chase Edmonds. Mediocre. Last year of deal.
Eno Benjamin. Has never been active for a game.
Just Eno under contract for 2022.

WR:
DeAndre Hopkins.
Andy Isabella. Terrible. One of three WRs under contract for 2022.
KeeSean Johnson. Terrible. One of three WRs under contract for 2022.

TE:
Maxx Williams. Mediocre. Last year of deal.
No TEs under contract for 2022.

EDGE is literally 5th in terms of future needs.

 

[Solar7]

Another thiing. The 8th highest paid RB averages 8mil per year. The 8th highest paid edge player averages 17 mil per year. One seems cheaper and easier to address than the other.

We have good edge players though, we don't have good RBs.

 

[Chopper0080]

And the moment we got an RB with actual size and speed, the team started winning and producing a whole hell of a lot better than that.

Sure, Ellington was a fine complementary back, but the team was going nowhere with him as our starter because he couldn't hold up to a full season load.

That's the issue right now. Edmonds goes down (or plays subpar which I'm even more worried about), and who is really going to take the load? A 5th round rookie? Eno Benjamin? That's just daring to force Kyler to throw on every down and have to play hero ball.

Kyler needs more offensive weapons, not less.

Our last three seasons with a winning record had our running backs as one year FA Mendenhall w/ 6th round pick Ellington, then Ellington, and then 3rd round David Johnson w/ 2 mil dollar FA Chris Johnson.

I don't think this is a very good argument for you to be making if you are trying to assert how the RB position needs to be a priority.

 

[Chopper0080]

CB:
Byron Murphy. Nickel CB. Deal expires after 2022.
No other CBs under contract for 2022.

RB:
Chase Edmonds. Mediocre. Last year of deal.
Eno Benjamin. Has never been active for a game.
Just Eno under contract for 2022.

WR:
DeAndre Hopkins.
Andy Isabella. Terrible. One of three WRs under contract for 2022.
KeeSean Johnson. Terrible. One of three WRs under contract for 2022.

TE:
Maxx Williams. Mediocre. Last year of deal.
No TEs under contract for 2022.

EDGE is literally 5th in terms of future needs.

Chase Edmonds and Todd Gurley would be fine and would match the quality of RBs we had over our last three winning seasons.

CB
EDGE
WR

RB
TE
OL
ILB
S

 

[DVontel]

And the moment we got an RB with actual size and speed, the team started winning and producing a whole hell of a lot better than that.

Sure, Ellington was a fine complementary back, but the team was going nowhere with him as our starter because he couldn't hold up to a full season load.

That's the issue right now. Edmonds goes down (or plays subpar which I'm even more worried about), and who is really going to take the load? A 5th round rookie? Eno Benjamin? That's just daring to force Kyler to throw on every down and have to play hero ball.

Kyler needs more offensive weapons, not less.

I mean, we were winning without the RB you’re speaking of before our QB1 tore his ACL.

Not really helping yourself out here.

 

[Chopper0080]

In terms of roster

QB

OL
WR
EDGE
CB

S
DL
TE
ILB

RB

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It absolutely does.

You cannot write off a WR being 5’7 like it’s nothing.

Yep the success rate of 5'8" and less at WR isn't high. That's 3" shorter than Steve Smith, who would be a similar style player

 

[Solar7]

Our last three seasons with a winning record had our running backs as one year FA Mendenhall w/ 6th round pick Ellington, then Ellington, and then 3rd round David Johnson w/ 2 mil dollar FA Chris Johnson.

I don't think this is a very good argument for you to be making if you are trying to assert how the RB position needs to be a priority.

Mendenhall wasn't some afterthought signing at the end of free agency, we at least brought someone in to be a starter. Sure, Ellington was a pleasant surprise. There's nothing wrong with him as a 2nd back, just like there isn't a problem with Edmonds as a 2nd back. As far as the David Johnson argument goes, Ellington still began that season as the starter, but we brought in a 3rd rounder and Johnson as insurance. That's what I want, is insurance. But we don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick to utilize, so 1st and 2nd are the only viable spots to pick up a useful player.

I mean, we were winning without the RB you’re speaking of before our QB1 tore his ACL.

Not really helping yourself out here.

Ellington's 3.28 YPC and 5 TDs is not why that team was winning. He was holding us back, and it's why the next year we invested in players to make him our 3rd option.

Chase Edmonds and Todd Gurley would be fine and would match the quality of RBs we had over our last three winning seasons.

Todd Gurley is absolutely cooked. He shouldn't even be on a roster in 2021.

 

[DVontel]

Mendenhall wasn't some afterthought signing at the end of free agency, we at least brought someone in to be a starter. Sure, Ellington was a pleasant surprise. There's nothing wrong with him as a 2nd back, just like there isn't a problem with Edmonds as a 2nd back. As far as the David Johnson argument goes, Ellington still began that season as the starter, but we brought in a 3rd rounder and Johnson as insurance. That's what I want, is insurance. But we don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick to utilize, so 1st and 2nd are the only viable spots to pick up a useful player.


Ellington's 3.28 YPC and 5 TDs is not why that team was winning. He was holding us back, and it's why the next year we invested in players to make him our 3rd option.


Todd Gurley is absolutely cooked. He shouldn't even be on a roster in 2021.

This is not helping your point man.


Despite those horrendous RB stats, we STILL went 9-1 before QB1 tore his ACL.

 

[DVontel]

In terms of roster

QB

OL
WR
EDGE
CB

S
DL
TE
ILB

RB

I’d flip WR & CB, but this is accurate otherwise.

 

[Solar7]

This is not helping your point man.


Despite those horrendous RB stats, we STILL went 9-1 before QB1 tore his ACL.

We went 8-1 before the injury (just looked at an article), but splitting hairs. This team doesn't have prime Larry Fitzgerald, prime Patrick Peterson, a stout defense, or most importantly, good coaching.

 

[DVontel]

We went 8-1 before the injury (just looked at an article), but splitting hairs. This team doesn't have prime Larry Fitzgerald, prime Patrick Peterson, a stout defense, or most importantly, good coaching.

Peterson was getting burnt relentlessly in 2014.

Fitz didn’t even have 800 yards in 2014. Meh.

Defense was disciplined, but had no semblance of a pass-rush.

Coaching, I’m with you there.

Funny though, a UDFA RB by the name of Kerwynn Williams damn near single handily carried the offense to a victory against a Chiefs team that made the playoffs.

 

[Chopper0080]

Mendenhall wasn't some afterthought signing at the end of free agency, we at least brought someone in to be a starter. Sure, Ellington was a pleasant surprise. There's nothing wrong with him as a 2nd back, just like there isn't a problem with Edmonds as a 2nd back. As far as the David Johnson argument goes, Ellington still began that season as the starter, but we brought in a 3rd rounder and Johnson as insurance. That's what I want, is insurance. But we don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick to utilize, so 1st and 2nd are the only viable spots to pick up a useful player.


Ellington's 3.28 YPC and 5 TDs is not why that team was winning. He was holding us back, and it's why the next year we invested in players to make him our 3rd option.


Todd Gurley is absolutely cooked. He shouldn't even be on a roster in 2021.

That is what they said about Edge and Rashard Mendenhall and Chris Johnson. Put a capable but average running back on a good offensive roster and crazy how they suddenly aren't cooked.

Gurley. Lev Bell. Conner. Gore. Gallman. Duke. McKinnon.

We could go with the Chris Evans and Elijah Mitchell double dip. Maybe a Larry Roundtree in round 5. Kylin Hill isn't my favorite but would be worth a 6th rounder.

So many options.

 

[Chopper0080]

I’d flip WR & CB, but this is accurate otherwise.

I just meant to group them not really putting the groups in order.

 

[Solar7]

Peterson was getting burnt relentlessly in 2014.

Fitz didn’t even have 800 yards in 2014. Meh.

Defense was disciplined, but had no semblance of a pass-rush.

Coaching, I’m with you there.

Funny though, a UDFA RB by the name of Kerwynn Williams damn near single handily carried the offense to a victory against a Chiefs team that made the playoffs.

Man, you have hated Patrick Peterson relentlessly for a really long time, haven't you? Did he break up with your sister or something?

Would you have trusted Kerwynn Williams to be your starter for a full season?

I don't doubt players of all levels can have surprisingly great games occasionally, but it's about consistency for me.

Gurley. Lev Bell. Conner. Gore. Gallman. Duke. McKinnon.

Did you watch any of these guys play? Outside of McKinnon, none of them could outrun my grandfather.

(Also as I write this the cops are in an armed standoff with the crazy guy in the neighborhood we have a restraining order on for threatening to murder us. What a day.)

 

[football karma]

i think there is a giant difference between:

a RB taken in the fifth round turned out to be a good starter

and

RBs taken in the 5th round will be good starters

 

[DVontel]

Man, you have hated Patrick Peterson relentlessly for a really long time, haven't you? Did he break up with your sister or something?

Would you have trusted Kerwynn Williams to be your starter for a full season?

I don't doubt players of all levels can have surprisingly great games occasionally, but it's about consistency for me.


Did you watch any of these guys play? Outside of McKinnon, none of them could outrun my grandfather.

(Also as I write this the cops are in an armed standoff with the crazy guy in the neighborhood we have a restraining order on for threatening to murder us. What a day.)

Yea, you didn’t watch Patrick Peterson in 2014. I actually question if you even watched the team at all. Is Patrick Peterson paying you? Are you in love with him or something? Are YOU Patrick Peterson?


That’s not the point. The point is that a team did & can be successful with RB being the least prioritized position on offense. We were stronger in other positions that mattered a lot more.

 

[BritCard]

That is what they said about Edge and Rashard Mendenhall and Chris Johnson. Put a capable but average running back on a good offensive roster and crazy how they suddenly aren't cooked.

Gurley. Lev Bell. Conner. Gore. Gallman. Duke. McKinnon.

We could go with the Chris Evans and Elijah Mitchell double dip. Maybe a Larry Roundtree in round 5. Kylin Hill isn't my favorite but would be worth a 6th rounder.

So many options.

I like Gallman. He had 4.6 yards per carry last year. I had him in FF so I watched him quite a bit and he's a good back. Bigger dude and different style too so would compliment Edmonds.

 

[Solar7]

Yea, you didn’t watch Patrick Peterson in 2014. I actually question if you even watched the team at all. Is Patrick Peterson paying you? Are you in love with him or something? Are YOU Patrick Peterson?


That’s not the point. The point is that a team did & can be successful with RB being the least prioritized position on offense. We were stronger in other positions that mattered a lot more.

I don't want to keep derailing the thread, so fine, whatever. But we'll see how successful this team is in 2021 if Edmonds is averaging 3.28 yards a carry like Ellington did. Because I'm going to guess that the answer will be that we're doing very poorly.

I like Gallman. He had 4.6 yards per carry last year. I had him in FF so I watched him quite a bit and he's a good back. Bigger dude and different style too so would compliment Edmonds.

Man, we must have been watching two different Wayne Gallmans. Outside of the Seattle game, he was bad. NYG couldn't get anything going all season.