Position by position evaluation

[JCSunsfan]

Pg

Depth chart: Nash, Dragic, Barbosa

With Dragics improvement at the end of the year and fairly decent showing in the summer leagues, this is a solid position. Even Barbosa serves well as a third string pg. The big question is whether Nash will be able to hold up to the strains of age. Solid on a scale of 1-10, overall the position is an 8.

Sg

Depth chart: Richardson, Barbosa, Hill

This position looks better than most Suns fans will admit. Richardson and Barbosa are both offensive forces and game changers. The gripe Suns have with Richardson is salary, but that doesn't matter in this evaluation. The big weakness here is defense. Both Richardson and Barbosa are capable of playing much better D and they must if this team is going to be successful. Nash simply cannot provide even average D at the pg position and we must make up for it here. 6

Sf

Depth Chart: Hill, Clark, Dudley

Interesting mix of age and youth at this position. It will be great fun to follow Clark's progress this year. He and Dudley will likely defend alot of 2's and 3's this year. This one is a big unknown, but there is also hope here. 6

Pf

Depth Chart: Amare, Clark, Frye, Amundsen

Lots of options and upside here. Of course, it all depends upon Amare's health. 8

C

Depth Chart: Lopez, Amare, Frye

I only listed Lopez 1 on the depth chart because I cannot list Amare at two starting positions. I don't see Lopez or Frye as NBA starters. In the end, I believe Amare will start at the 5, Clark at 4, and Hill at 3. But with the positions as I listed them, this is by far the weakest position on the team. Big surprise. The need is defense and rebounding. Frye is unlikely to provide either of those so I cannot see him starting. Lopez gets the starting position because there is no better option. Who knows, maybe he will develop. He has the tools, he is just spastic. He moves too much, does not play under control, moves before he catches the pass etc. Oh well. 3

 

[JS22]

Thought I'd throw in my take.

PG: Nash, Dragic, Barbosa / B+

Nash is aging, but still a top 10 PG. Dragic showed a few flashes toward the end of last season. I feel that he is actually somewhat underrated. Barbosa is not really a PG, but can play the position if needed.

SG: Richardson, Barbosa / B-

Richardson could have a breakout year. A full year in the Suns system should help him improve his numbers. He looks to be the primary scoring option behind Amare and possibly Nash. I wouldn't be surprised if he put up 20+ ppg next season. Barbosa is possibly the best 6th man in the league and can score points in bunches. Neither will play much defense, however.

SF: Hill, Dudley, Clark / C+

Hill is a solid vet who can still get it done if called upon. A perfect 4th option in any lineup. Dudley is a great option of the bench. Provides the "scrappy" quality that every team needs. Clark is unproven but seems to have a lot of potential. No true "stars" at this position. But very solid depth.

PF: Amare, Amundson / Clark, Frye / B

Amare is what he is. A fantastic scorer, who if healthy, could be one of the top scorers in the league next year. He can provide average help defense, but tends to get burned from time to time 1v1. His rebounding ability is average to slightly below average. Amundson is another scrappy player who is great in spurts. Leaving him in for an extended period of time (at this position) may hurt more than it helps. Clark may have a tougher time at PF than SF, so I think his minutes will be somewhat limited here. He'll get his 15-20 a game split between SF and PF. I don't see a "true" backup to Amare at PF. So Amundson and Clark will probably split the duty depending on the matchup.

C: Frye, Lopez, Amundson / D+

I think Frye will end up winning the job after Lopez proves that he's just not that good. Frye is a slightly below average player across the board, with a hint of potential if he could ever reach his rookie numbers again. But his ability to hit the jumper may be all the Suns need from him. This leaves the paint open for Amare to do his work. Lopez will have trouble staying in games after picking up fouls that he shouldn't be committing. Some nights he may provide you with a 10/10 performance, others he will completely disappear. Amundson may see more minutes here than expected when the Suns realize that Frye and Lopez aren't cutting it. Amundson can provide the Suns with everything they expect Lopez to be able to provide.

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

So your overall grade is 6.1. That doesn't sound too promising in the West where it takes a 6 or 7 to play at the final table. So you are saying the Suns are a borderline playoff team. Probably right on the money. Where would you rank the coaching staff?

 

[JCSunsfan]

So your overall grade is 6.1. That doesn't sound too promising in the West where it takes a 6 or 7 to play at the final table. So you are saying the Suns are a borderline playoff team. Probably right on the money. Where would you rank the coaching staff?

Yep. That's about right. The coaching staff is an incomplete at this point. It will probably be better than Porter.

 

[HooverDam]

Hm we have one grading system using numbers, the other letter grades. Lets all use different systems.

PG: Nash is still a top 5-10 PG in the league, Dragic showed good progress and LB can of course play PG in spot minutes. Theres very few teams in the league who Id trade the Suns PG situation for. Rating: Green.

SG: JRich didn't turn out to be quite what I think a lot of Suns fans thought they were getting, but he's still a good scorer, as is LB. Unfortunately neither are great defenders and the Suns lack a traditional cheap spot up shooter like an Eddie House type. Rating: Yellow

SF: Who knows if Hill can play 82 games, probably not. Dudley is a nice scrappy player, but if he's going to be relied on for starter type minutes I'm not sure if Im comfortable with that, he seems to lack horizontal quickness and some of the other skills Id like in a SF. I think Clark was a good pick, but we dont know what we have there yet. Rating: Purple

PF: Amare may not rebound or play enough D but he is a top PF, though who knows if his eyeball will fall out or his knee will explode. Frye is pretty good as a backup PF, though he doesn't make up for any of Amares weaknesses which would be preferred in that slot. Amundson is what he is, nothing to get excited about. Rating: Pink

C: The Suns do not have a center of starting caliber on a winning team, they are laughably bad at this position for now and the foreseeable future (Robin Lopez has the upside of Vern Troyer). Rating: Red

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are incredibly weak at the 4/5 unless Amare can dominate upfront. This is a lot to ask. IMO, this is not a playoff roster. Other teams can run with the Suns now and they are younger and deeper. Also the Suns have no defensive force inside.

Unless Kerr pulls a rabbit out of his hat and shores up the middle, other teams are going to make a freeway to the Suns basket.

 

[binkar]

Point Guards: I--------------I <- this big
Shooting Guards: I-----------I<- this big
Small Forwards: I---------I<-this big
Power Forwards: I------------I<-this big
Centers: I-------I<-this big

 

[mojorizen7]

Ok I'll give it a shot. I'm going to evaluate defense as just as important as offense because there are two ends of the floor in the NBA(thats the rumor anyway....).

PG- Steve Nash has to still be considered a top notch PG in terms of decision making,shooting,distributing and leading by example,however he is a major liability on defense and will easily get caught out of position and/or simply get overmatched. His age should be a concern down the stretch.
Dragic has shown the ability to make good decisions in transition as well as knock down the mid to long range jumper. His issues and struggles are directly related to his confidence issues. He needs more minutes in order to grow IMO. His defense has been very average with some upside. I like his ability to crowd his man and get deflections etc..
Barbosa.....a very nice combo guard to have who can come in,run the offense well enough so it doesn't completely fall apart....although he will always look to score first. His defense has improved in terms of playing with a little more discipline and becoming more aggresive when getting screened......still very average though.
Grade B-
---------------------------------------------
SG- Jason Richardson can score from everywhere.....inside,outside,in transistion,in the half court.....but I don't believe he's the guy you want taking big shots in the clutch. He's shown the propensity to be very good when playing with a lead,getting hot from the perimeter or flying down the court for uncontested dunks etc...but i don't like his "touch" around the rim in traffic, or his stop and pop in transition. Defensively i can't figure out why he looks so slow to recover when he's obviously got good foot speed and athletic ability. He should be much better on D but he's very average. I think he's anti-clutch but we could do much worse at the 2 than JRich.
Barbosa is an instant diference maker offensively where at times he's unguardable. He brings energy, 3 pt shooting and can get the opposition frustrated at times. His poor defense has improved noticably since the departure of D'Antoni and IMO he can still improve there a bit.
Grade B
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SF- Grant Hill is easily the most complete player on this roster. He brings a veteran IQ, the ability to score in many ways including in the half court. He will play tough, high effort hard nosed defense too. His shooting range is the only area that limits him IMO. Age is a concern.
Jared Dudley(like Barbosa) will bring instant energy off the bench...except he'll bring it in terms of defense. Duds will guard people,go and get rebounds and providing some complimentary scoring. IMO he deserves more minutes.
Earl Clark. Unknown as yet because you don't know how a rookie is going to respond to NBA competion. He should be able to provide some defense, inside scoring and rebounding....
Grade B+
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PF- Amare if healthy can go get 27 ppg just about every night....he can also go get you 10 rebounds and a couple of blocks.....problem is all you can count on is the scoring. Stat is a very one-dimension player, but he's also very valuable due to his ability (at 6'10") to score inside and out. Health is a concern.
Louie Lou Amundsen. Nice role player of the bench who brings high effort, high energy,some shot blocking, a little post defense and some rebounding.He'll get a few garbage points but is a liability offensively and at the FT line , where he does get some oppourtunities.
Channing Frye at PF is a poor man's Amare Stoudemire IMO. His defense has been poor but he can provide some scoring and he has some range.
Grade C+
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Center- Robin Lopez hasn't shown much of anything yet. Slow footspeed,poor positioning when rebounding,slow to react defensively,lack of lower body strength. IMO he does have upside but will require alot of coaching attention. Offensively....again poor footwork,not playing to his strength(which is his 7' frame),zero range,poor awareness in traffic.
Frye at center is only going to benefit on the offensive end of the floor IMO. He can step out and shoot but he will get brutalized on the other end by opposing big men working in the post. He's not strong enough,nor quick enough to compete on the glass at center either IMO.
Grade F+ (I thought i'd be nice and add in the plus+)
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Overall i'd give the SUNS a C+
A dynamic offensive team that will get lit up nightly.....probably just good enough to get an 8 seed and likely get swept by the #1 seed.

 

[leclerc]

We're back to playing small ball so I sure hope we're fast and have a much improved team defense this year!

This is how I see the depth chart:

PG: Nash, Dragic - B
SG: J-Rich, Barbosa, Tucker - B
SF: Hill, Dudley - B/C
PF: Frye, Lou, Clark - C
C: Amare, Lopez - B

I hope Dragic, Dudley and Clark get a lot of minutes this year...


Update

I had a different grading system when I was young so here's take two:

PG: Nash, Dragic - B
SG: J-Rich, Barbosa, Tucker - C
SF: Hill, Dudley - C
PF: Frye, Lou, Clark - D
C: Amare, Lopez - B

 

[da_suns_fan]

I think some people dont seem to understand that "C" means "average".

There is no way Fyre, Lou and Clark are anything better than "D".

But according to Steve Kerr, we have lots of depth.

 

[Covert Rain]

Here it goes. I too like mojorizen7 will look at this from both sides of the court.

PG- Steve Nash is still one of the best offensive PG in the NBA. His ability to get your team easy shots makes everyone's job easier. He is also a great shooter and has a tendency to hit big shots. He is also at the same time the teams biggest defensive liability. The same way he makes guys around him better on offense, he makes the guys around him worse on defense. He has almost zero lateral quickness and can't keep guys in front of him. This results in the team chasing guys all over the court in bad rotations or gets our FC in foul trouble. When matched with a 2 guard on defense, he can be shot over at will. He gave up alot of easy buckets on the other end last year because of turnovers. In the past Nash's offense made up for his defense. I no longer think that is the case. Those days are behind him.

Barbosa.....is more of a SG then a PG. Although he logs minutes at the Point I don't like him handling the ball. He becomes a little predictable because if he has the ball in his hands he is going to the bucket. Having said that, very few guys can keep in front of him and he is a streaky shooter. He is an average defender but showed some improvement last year.

Dragic has been below average with flashes of what he can do. He has not impressed in the summer league. Dragic simply might not have what it takes. This year will be very important. If he doesn't show marked improvement, he will probably not pan out.

Summary: We still IMO don't have a true backup PG and so far, since the day Steve has gotten here, we are still waiting for one to emerge. As good as Steve is offensively, defense wins titles. We lack that in abundance at this position.

Grade C+
---------------------------------------------

SG- Jason Richardson is probably the best SG we have had on this team since Joe but offensively more athletic and a better shooter. The problem is does he fit with this team? Can they use him correctly? I don't remember the last time I have seen a player with his offensive talent misused on a basketball team. Much the like the coaches trying to get guys with no defensive skills to play defense, the Suns have not played to Richardson strengths IMO. He has not been as clutch as I thought he would be but he brings some above the rim play that we have been really missing with the exit of Marion. He is an average defender and should be better which is the biggest disappointment for me. He has the tools but it just doesn't click.

Barbosa is huge off the bench. One of the best bench players in the NBA IMO and with a great contract to boot. He brings instant offense and when he turns it on driving to the hoop, teams don't seem to have an answer for him. Again, Barbosa is an average defender and becomes a liability when his offense isn't going for him.

Summary: The SG position should have been better last year. However, there are other positions on this team I am more concerned about. I would have given a higher grade except again, the average defense at this position hurts us here at times but not as much as the PG spot.

Grade B-
------------------------------------------------------------

SF- Grant Hill is easily one of the best defenders on this team. That is a compliment and scary at the same time considering his age. He is a very smart player and brings the type of veteran leadership you need on a title contending team. Unfortunately, I think having Grant on this team hinders a team that is in transition more then it helps if he starts. If Grant was simply a role player or bench player I am all for it. However, I think Grant starts again next season which is a mistake IMO. Age catches up with everyone. The fact that Grant Hill has been healthy is great but something tells me when age catches up to Hill it won't be a very pleasant "tag your it".

Jared Dudley I didn't expect anything out of him. I have liked what I have seen out of Dudley. He brings energy on both ends of the court. He is not a great offensive player but brings the kind of focus on defense this team has been missing. I would like Dudley to start to see what giving him extended minutes would do in place of starting Grant. I could easily see Dudley being a defensive anchor in your starting 5 if you don't need his offense night in and night out.

Earl Clark Not only unknown but I for some reason doubt he will be the teams long term SF. They are saying he his versatile enough to play SF. However, unlike Marion, his skill set is more of a PF versus SF. Basically on the opposite side of the Forward spectrum then Marion was. It might be a huge mistake to play him here and I don't think this experiment will last long and you will see Clark backing up the PF position.

Summary: This is the one position we are in decent shape from IMO if your looking at things from a this year perspective or from the perspective that Dudley could be your long term guy. One of our best defended positions on the floor.

Grade B+
---------------------------------------------------------------

PF- Amare is a conundrum. He is a legit 20+ Point Power Forward in the NBA and as talented as they come on offense. The problem is that Amare will get you 18 rebounds one night and 5 the next. Stat also is a below average defender. If stat ever figured out how to be more consistent with rebounds and at the very least become a competent defender, this guy would be the best PF in the game bar none. Unfortunately, I think Stat is low IQ player who will never probably put it all together. He has shown some improvement in certain parts of his game but not his overall game.

Lou Amundsen Good role player off the bench. Brings energy and is the best rebounding forward we have on the team right now. He is a huge liability at the FT line and is really more of a garbage offensive player. He is exactly what the Suns need off the bench.

Earl Clark If he fulfills his potential, Amare is gone IMO. I think the Suns drafted this guy as the future PF of this team. This is his natural position. Even if Amare stays, I think the Suns will play him at PF and slide Amare to Center. They might even do the opposite. I think his future is at this position and not the SF position. I think the Suns might have drafted another diamond outside the first 10 picks in the draft again. Unfortunately, for Lou, Clark might over take him in the rotation by seasons end. Much like the SF position, I like the future potential.

Summary: I think we are OK at the PF position when looking at it from a committee. As much as I hate how Amare plays sometimes on the other end I also like what we have on the bench and believe Clark might be the future if he ever pans out. Unlike Nash, Amare has the tools and when he does play on both ends of the court, the Suns have looked unstoppable....just not consistently so.

Grade B
------------------------------------------------------

Center-Frye is our starting center IMO or at least he should be. He is the best player at that position on our roster. Trying to play him at PF is a huge mistake. Frye has struggled against teams playing small ball and asking him to guard NBA PF's in the West is asking to much. He is a better pick and roll defender but that is overrated IMO and not the reason the Suns struggled defensively IMO. He is a huge downgrade to an All-Star Center like Shaq. My hope is that Frye turns into one of those guys that just needed the right opportunity.

Amare - All indications are this team is going to give Amare time at the center position again. My guess is that when Frye goes to the bench Amare slides to center with Lou or Clark playing PF. It's a huge huge mistake. When looking at the numbers the Suns paint defense is non-existent when Amare plays center. It's like layup drills for opposing defenses. Unfortunately, Frye is the closest thing to a center we have on this roster and that is not saying much.

Robin Lopez is horrible. He was not a good rebounder in college and he doesn't appear to be changing that trend in the NBA. Show me an underachieving center on the boards in the NBA and I will show you a nobody center. He doesn't have the strength to push people around, he doesn't have a polished offensive game and for a guy that was suppose to defend...he has not shown much except for the occasional block. I said on draft day the Suns reached for Lopez and I predicted a bust. Aside from some miracle intervention...I think that is coming true.

Summary: If it wasn't for the Frye signing this would easily be an F. Amare playing Center hurts more on defense that it helps on offense. Losing Shaq is a huge blow to the Suns paint. Mark it down now. The Suns probably will have one of the worst paints in the NBA bar none.

Grade D
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FINAL GRADE = C

This team is an average team at best. You will see nights where they look like world beaters and nights that this team looks like they couldn't beat the worst team in the NBA. They might squeak into the playoffs only to be bounced in the first round. This is not a title contending team nor is it a team that can do any damage in the playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this team doesn't make the playoffs and is blown apart come trade deadline this coming season.

This team needs a enema in the worst way and needs to rebuild with a solid defensive foundation.

 

[mojorizen7]

^ Good post SteelDog.....we're pretty much on the same page it seems judging by our breakdowns.

 

[Sovereignz]

He is a better pick and roll defender but that is overrated IMO and not the reason the Suns struggled defensively IMO.

I agree with most of your post, but I am definitely of the opposite mind set on this.. watching teams who had strong pick and roll options against us, and then watching them again against other teams was night and day (at least to me). Our defensive field goal % has historically been not even close to as bad as our defensive reputation would suggest.. but teams know they can go to the well and get buckets when they need them. I've never been as frustrated as a fan as I have been the last few years knowing every time at the end of a close game, the Spurs are going to come down and run a pick and roll and either get something at the rim or a wide, wide open outside shot.

Seriously, what's our combined record against the Jazz, Hornets, and Spurs (the three deadliest pick and roll teams along with us IMO) the last few years? Watching Deron Williams pick and roll us made me want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon. And if I even start thinking about Parker I may spontaneously combust, although most of his damage is done to Nash directly..

 

[mojorizen7]

For me the frustration and eyesore defensive weakness of these SUNS teams have just been all the easy buckets we give up....which includes the P&R's.
Uncontested layups,wide open three's,blown assignments,and overall cushy soft resistance to the opposition.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with most of your post, but I am definitely of the opposite mind set on this.. watching teams who had strong pick and roll options against us, and then watching them again against other teams was night and day (at least to me). Our defensive field goal % has historically been not even close to as bad as our defensive reputation would suggest.. but teams know they can go to the well and get buckets when they need them. I've never been as frustrated as a fan as I have been the last few years knowing every time at the end of a close game, the Spurs are going to come down and run a pick and roll and either get something at the rim or a wide, wide open outside shot.

Seriously, what's our combined record against the Jazz, Hornets, and Spurs (the three deadliest pick and roll teams along with us IMO) the last few years? Watching Deron Williams pick and roll us made me want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon. And if I even start thinking about Parker I may spontaneously combust, although most of his damage is done to Nash directly..

For me the frustration and eyesore defensive weakness of these SUNS teams have just been all the easy buckets we give up....which includes the P&R's.
Uncontested layups,wide open three's,blown assignments,and overall cushy soft resistance to the opposition.

Agreed mojorizen. P&R account for very very low percentage of overall points in a game. If your game comes down to the wire and you lose on a P&R sure it would be nice to have. However, you are not addressing the main problem. All the easy buckets and lack of defense throughout the game is what caused the game to be close at all. If the Suns had shored up the rest of this teams defensive deficiencies, nobody would be mentioning Shaq's P&R Defense. The Lakers & Miami didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I am a bit surprised by some of the evaluations posted above.

Steve Nash, playing a fast break style basketball, is the best PG in the league... offensively. If I believe that to be true, how can I grade that anything less than an A? If he is a top 5 PG overall... how can that be anything less than an A-?

I mostly agree with the rest, but tend to error on the positive. The problem the Suns have is you can't be an B or B+ team in the West; there are too many B+ and above teams.

The Suns are going to struggle a bit. If Nash/Hill can remain healthy and Frye/Clark/Dudley/Loser Lopez come to play hard, they could crack a top 4 seed. That is assuming Amare is trying to prove he isn't tradeable. A BIG IF.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am a bit surprised by some of the evaluations posted above.

Steve Nash, playing a fast break style basketball, is the best PG in the league... offensively. If I believe that to be true, how can I grade that anything less than an A? If he is a top 5 PG overall... how can that be anything less than an A-?

Simply put, Nash is also one of the worst defending PG in the entire NBA. I for one acknowledge offensively he is tops but to ignore the fact that he is one of the worst on the other end of the court cannot be ignored. I think for the most part what I have read, people do acknowledge his offensive contribution. Let's not also forget that Nash turnovers have been a huge problem. It's usually overshadowed by his gaudy assists totals but that also cannot be overlooked considering the Suns were near the top of the league at giving up points off of turnovers. Considering Nash led the entire NBA amongst guards in turn overs for most of the season....that says something.

If the topic of the thread was review this team from an Offensive perspective only then I would agree.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Simply put, Nash is also one of the worst defending PG in the entire NBA. I for one acknowledge offensively he is tops but to ignore the fact that he is one of the worst on the other end of the court cannot be ignored. I think for the most part what I have read, people do acknowledge his offensive contribution. Let's not also forget that Nash turnovers have been a huge problem. It's usually overshadowed by his gaudy assists totals but that also cannot be overlooked considering the Suns were near the top of the league at giving up points off of turnovers. Considering Nash led the entire NBA amongst guards in turn overs for most of the season....that says something.

If the topic of the thread was review this team from an Offensive perspective only then I would agree.

Thus I label him as a top 5 PG, considering his defense (or lack thereof).

Turnovers could be traced to new teammates and a new system. I think that will dramatically improve this season.

 

[Gaddabout]

But according to Steve Kerr, we have lots of depth.

The Suns do! You just have to look at it from the right perspective. The second five isn't terribly worse than the starting five, it's just that the starting five isn't half as good as it was three years ago.

This is called flexibility.

BTW, the one good thing about Richardson is he can guard a three about as well as he can guard a two (ole!), so he and Hill can switch on defense.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm curious to see who people think are SIGNIFICANTLY better defensively at the PG position than Steve Nash? I know he's not a good defender, but it's not like the other 29 teams in the league have stellar defenders at the position either. Tony Parker, for example, is better, but not by much. The short list of much better defenders might just start and end with Deron Williams and maybe Chris Paul.

And then I'd like to see people's list of point guards OVERALL. It's as if people here justify saying Steve Nash is simply an average player because of his defense. But maybe it would be a surprise to many of those fans, not many GMs would call Steve Nash "average".

 

[Gaddabout]

I'm curious to see who people think are SIGNIFICANTLY better defensively at the PG position than Steve Nash? I know he's not a good defender, but it's not like the other 29 teams in the league have stellar defenders at the position either. Tony Parker, for example, is better, but not by much. The short list of much better defenders might just start and end with Deron Williams and maybe Chris Paul.

And then I'd like to see people's list of point guards OVERALL. It's as if people here justify saying Steve Nash is simply an average player because of his defense. But maybe it would be a surprise to many of those fans, not many GMs would call Steve Nash "average".

Hey, I already made this point in another thread! I think there are a lot of better defenders at PG, but maybe all but the two you mentioned have any signs of offensive skills. For the most part, defensive point guards are specialists. And if they start at the position, the offense is usually designed to hide their limitations (such as the situation in LA).

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm curious to see who people think are SIGNIFICANTLY better defensively at the PG position than Steve Nash? I know he's not a good defender, but it's not like the other 29 teams in the league have stellar defenders at the position either. Tony Parker, for example, is better, but not by much. The short list of much better defenders might just start and end with Deron Williams and maybe Chris Paul.

And then I'd like to see people's list of point guards OVERALL. It's as if people here justify saying Steve Nash is simply an average player because of his defense. But maybe it would be a surprise to many of those fans, not many GMs would call Steve Nash "average".

Hey, I already made this point in another thread! I think there are a lot of better defenders at PG, but maybe all but the two you mentioned have any signs of offensive skills. For the most part, defensive point guards are specialists. And if they start at the position, the offense is usually designed to hide their limitations (such as the situation in LA).

There are only 2 teams in the entire NBA that gave up more points from the PG position. The Suns ranked 10th worst in the NBA at the Point PG position per 48. The Suns allowed 43% shooting from that position from the 2 and 36% from the 3. Steve floor time stats say he gave up 17.8 PPG per 48 which would put him in the 10 worst in the NBA.

You can try and spin that anyway you want but that is bad. So, If I had to guess without doing a deep dive into every single starting PG in the NBA, I would say there is probably about 20 PG who play better defense.

 

[mojorizen7]

Significantly better defensively:
C.Paul
D.Williams
C. Billups
R.Rondo
T.Parker
D.Harris
J.Kidd

Just better:
I don't see the point. It would be easier to name any point guards that are worse than Nash defensively.
Here goes:
....
....
....
Nash probably ranks a millinotch below Jose Calderon .
Why debate Nash's obvious weakness?
If Steve could even be mediocre on Defense he'd still be the best overall PG in the league IMO....but he's awful on "D" so he gets bumped down several notches for me.

 

[Chaplin]

Significantly better defensively:
C.Paul
D.Williams
C. Billups
R.Rondo
T.Parker
D.Harris
J.Kidd

Just better:
I don't see the point. It would be easier to name any point guards that are worse than Nash defensively.
Here goes:
....
....
....
Nash probably ranks a millinotch below Jose Calderon .
Why debate Nash's obvious weakness?
If Steve could even be mediocre on Defense he'd still be the best overall PG in the league IMO....but he's awful on "D" so he gets bumped down several notches for me.

And? Are you saying all those point guards are better than Steve Nash overall? Nash is better offensively than most if not ALL of those guys.

Steeldog loves his "gives up more points from the point guard position" stat, but of course he ignores where most of those PG points come from. Right at the basket. Any perimeter defender has to rely on the guys behind him. That stat Steeldog brings up tells me more than anything, Nash had NO help from his bigs behind him.

Watch the games, Nash's individual man-to-man defense is not good at all, but his team d is solid. Not spectacular, but good. And don't forget, the number of charges the guy takes are amazing. Do you think it's blind luck that he's at the right place at the right time?

What happens most of the time is that he's just not able to defend quick first steps (like Tony Parker), so they get by him. Unfortunately, Shaq and Amare aren't good defenders either, and Parker scores freely with a layup. There's your "points from the PG position".

And I know you're going to accuse me of being a homer, but I admit freely that Nash is a poor perimeter defender. But his genius on offense overshadows that. If it didn't, he wouldn't be a starter, let alone in the NBA in the first place. Any GM would love to have him. Any one of them.

 

[mojorizen7]

And? Are you saying all those point guards are better than Steve Nash overall? Nash is better offensively than most if not ALL of those guys.

I'm saying that these guys are significantly better than Nash on D:
C.Paul
D.Williams
C. Billups
R.Rondo
T.Parker
D.Harris
J.Kidd

You said you were curious as to what other PG's besides Paul & Williams others(like myself)thought were significantly better than Nash on D. These are the guys. I further went on to give my opinion that there are very few(if any) other PG's in the league worse than Nash on D.
Personally, i would take most of these guys over Nash if I was trying to win a title tomorrow....thats debatable though. What is not debatable is that Nash is one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

I'd be very curious as to what your comprehensive breakdown by position would be Chap....you seem to have all the answers in terms of critiquing and debating the posts of others.