Point guard speculation article - Russell hope

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, he is what he is - a PG that you want to replace from your starting lineup as soon as possible.

Correct. And that's all he's ever been except for perhaps that one season in Utah. The only reason I'd buy into him is to avoid paying Russell 30 million a year, I find that an alarming prospect. Even if it turns out to be our best move it's more than a little scary tying up that much money in our 2 guards.

 

[1Sun]

Here is the thing about Rubio - we are going to have to overpay him to sign him.

Why - because Indianapolis wants Rubio, and possibly Chicago.

He is clearly the next best PG after Beverley and Collison - and those 2 are not going to want to play for a bad team.

I really would rather just start Tyler Johnson - the numbers show he is almost as good as Rubio - and he is already under contract for a year. The upgrade is too small to justify a 3y 40 million dollar contract.

Personally I say throw our money at Russel or Brogdan, or don't spend any on a pg at all other than a minimum salary guy.

Johnson:

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

57 22 26.8 3.8 9.2 .413 1.6 4.6 .346 2.2 4.7 .477 .498 1.7 2.2 .748 0.6 2.4 3.0 2.9 0.9 0.5 1.4 1.7 10.9

270 68 26.8 4.0 9.2 .433 1.3 3.5 .364 2.7 5.6 .477 .504 1.8 2.3 .771 0.6 2.8 3.3 2.5 0.9 0.5 1.2 2.0 11.0

PER last year of 12.4, and Career PER of 13.8.

Rubio:

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

68 67 27.9 4.3 10.7 .404 1.2 3.7 .311 3.2 7.0 .454 .458 2.9 3.4 .855 0.5 3.1 3.6 6.1 1.3 0.1 2.6 2.6 12.7

498 477 30.9 3.6 9.2 .388 0.8 2.6 .322 2.7 6.6 .413 .433 3.1 3.7 .838 0.7 3.5 4.2 7.7 1.9 0.1 2.7 2.6 11.1

Per last year of 14.0, and career PER of 15.8.

Johnson is a better shooter from the field in terms of percentages, but Rubio is by far the better passer and more efficient player. That being said, the numbers bear out my perception: Johnson is too inefficient and too poor of a passer to play the point, while Rubio is not good enough of a shooter to play the point next to Booker.

 

[Proximo]

Correct. And that's all he's ever been except for perhaps that one season in Utah. The only reason I'd buy into him is to avoid paying Russell 30 million a year, I find that an alarming prospect. Even if it turns out to be our best move it's more than a little scary tying up that much money in our 2 guards.

You know I keep hearing Gambo say this stuff about too much money in your guards? What the hell does that mean?

How in today's NBA are guards not the 2 most important positions?

Instead of being concerned about having too much money invested in the backcourt, I would be more concerned having too much money tied up in my frontcourt.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You know I keep hearing Gambo say this stuff about too much money in your guards? What the hell does that mean?

How in today's NBA are guards not the 2 most important positions?

Instead of being concerned about having too much money invested in the backcourt, I would be more concerned having too much money tied up in my frontcourt.

Yeah, despite what I just said I feel the same way about the importance of guards in today's game. So I guess I'd be fine paying that much money for the right two guards but I just haven't seen max money in Russell's game. We didn't really see it in Devin's game when he signed his big deal either, just the potential, but I haven't even seen the potential in Russell's game. Maybe I just didn't see enough of him?

 

[Proximo]

Johnson:

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

57 22 26.8 3.8 9.2 .413 1.6 4.6 .346 2.2 4.7 .477 .498 1.7 2.2 .748 0.6 2.4 3.0 2.9 0.9 0.5 1.4 1.7 10.9

270 68 26.8 4.0 9.2 .433 1.3 3.5 .364 2.7 5.6 .477 .504 1.8 2.3 .771 0.6 2.8 3.3 2.5 0.9 0.5 1.2 2.0 11.0

PER last year of 12.4, and Career PER of 13.8.

Rubio:

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

68 67 27.9 4.3 10.7 .404 1.2 3.7 .311 3.2 7.0 .454 .458 2.9 3.4 .855 0.5 3.1 3.6 6.1 1.3 0.1 2.6 2.6 12.7

498 477 30.9 3.6 9.2 .388 0.8 2.6 .322 2.7 6.6 .413 .433 3.1 3.7 .838 0.7 3.5 4.2 7.7 1.9 0.1 2.7 2.6 11.1

Per last year of 14.0, and career PER of 15.8.

Johnson is a better shooter from the field in terms of percentages, but Rubio is by far the better passer and more efficient player. That being said, the numbers bear out my perception: Johnson is too inefficient and too poor of a passer to play the point, while Rubio is not good enough of a shooter to play the point next to Booker.

Yeah, I am familiar with all of this.

Like I said too me that is too small of an upgrade. Personally I value the shooting over the extra 3 assists a game.

 

[devilalum]

I'm not a Rubio fan at all but if I had to choose between paying him 10 to 12 per for 3 years or paying Russell almost 30 million per for 4 years, I think I'd lean towards Ricky.

The Suns aren't going to get anybody to come here unless they improve. They aren't going to improve unless they get more good players. Why are they saving the extra money?

 

[95pro]

If we role with Tyler this season, then we have to restart the process next season, while most coveted guards will be signed this summer.

 

[Proximo]

If we role with Tyler this season, then we have to restart the process next season, while most coveted guards will be signed this summer.

Like I have already said - if we don't get Brogdan or Russell this offseason, then I figured we have to get our long term PG in the draft next year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns aren't going to get anybody to come here unless they improve. They aren't going to improve unless they get more good players. Why are they saving the extra money?

I don't think they are trying to save the extra money but spending unwisely will just dig the hole deeper IMO. That's a general statement, not necessarily about any one player.

If they think Russell is worth close to 30 million, overspending by a few million a year is fine. I've missed on a lot of players when it comes to evaluating worth but I look at Russell and see a player that is worth a little more than half that amount and unless he has another level or two of growth in him, the gap between his playing value and a max contract seems too great to me. 20 per is the kind of overpay I had in mind when I was in favor of going after him, 30M just floors me.

 

[sinsay]

PG ROSE
SG BOOKER
SF BRIDGES
PF DARIO
C AYTON

That is best starting 5 suns have had in a while.

Bench

PG TY
SG CAM
SF JACKSON
PF OUBRE/BYNES
C BYNES


Bench needs work but all may be able to provide quality mins.

With salary, production, and experience Rose seems to be the best option.
Rose should get 15 to 20 pts a night with Booker and Ayton.

I don't see a PG available.
That can fill as many holes on this team for the salary they would pay Rose.

 

[sinsay]

Rubio is trash and he may commend more salary than rose will.
With him on the court, they will still double Booker.

If you double off Rose he will score 20 plus with a high FG%

Rose is by no means the PG of the future but I think he is the best PG suns can get for next season or two.

Malcolm and Russel for the right price are only two PG I think are worth long term deals with suns this offseason.

If suns don't get Rose, Malcolm Or Russel pay Johnson his 19 mill then draft a PG next season and build a bench though F/A next offseason after spending on a starting PF.

 

[Rab]

At the end of the day, if Brogdon or D Lo are off the table, I would welcome Rubio if it meant for sure keeping Oubre as well. Though it would be nice to have a PG that would keep defenses honest on the perimeter, he would be an upgrade from the PG’s we have been starting since Bledsoe left. He can run an offense and would be a stop gap PG I would welcome at this point. If you sign Rubio and keep Oubre, he doesn’t need to score as much as just penetrate and find the open guy. Hell, if he could make a simple entry pass to the post for Ayton, he would be a HUGE upgrade.


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[overseascardfan]

You know I keep hearing Gambo say this stuff about too much money in your guards? What the hell does that mean?

How in today's NBA are guards not the 2 most important positions?

Instead of being concerned about having too much money invested in the backcourt, I would be more concerned having too much money tied up in my frontcourt.

Yeah he makes no sense. If PHX is going to give a max contract out it should be to a PG like Russell. There may be some that don’t feel Russell is a max guy but he is pretty close particularly considering his age. Right now PHX needs to go after any star that wants to come here. Beggars can’t be choosers. Another thing Gambo said that made no sense is that PHX probably doesn’t want a PG who is a 20+ PPG scorer because PHX wants the scoring to come from Booker, Ayton & Oubre. You want 14 guys who can score on your roster if you can. What if Ayton or Oubre don’t become 20 ppg guys or have an off night? Someone has to be able to pick up the slack if necessary.

 

[Bufalay]

I’d like to see how much better the suns could be with a competent point guard like Rubio.

 

[Chaplin]

I’d like to see how much better the suns could be with a competent point guard like Rubio.

Better be careful, the way people are talking here today, Rubio is no better than Canaan.

 

[1Sun]

Better be careful, the way people are talking here today, Rubio is no better than Canaan.

Oh, Rubio is significantly better than Canaan, and significantly better than Tyler Johnson in my opinion. He just isn't everything we need at the point guard position, namely someone with good enough of an outside shot to keep opposing defenses honest, so they don't just converge on Booker, Ayton and our spot-up shooters while daring our point guard to shoot.

 

[devilalum]

Everybody just needs to take a breath and prepare to be underwhelmed.


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[Covert Rain]

Better be careful, the way people are talking here today, Rubio is no better than Canaan.

I don't get the Rubio hate either. He isn't going to light you up shooting but he is almost a career 11 point, 8 assist guy, good FT shooter, averages about 4 RB per game as a guard, averages 2 steals. He is #13 among point guards in points allowed per 100 possessions and middle of the pack for plus minus. He is only 28.

Seriously that is light years ahead of anything we have had in recent memory and far from "trash".

I will take Rubio all day long. He improves our assists, rebounding and defense for sure. It's a good fit because he is NOT a shoot first PG that has to have the ball to get his shots.

 

[1Sun]

I don't get the Rubio hate either. He isn't going to light you up shooting but he is almost a career 11 point, 8 assist guy, good FT shooter, averages about 4 RB per game as a guard, averages 2 steals. He is #13 among point guards in points allowed per 100 possessions and middle of the pack for plus minus. He is only 28.

Seriously that is light years ahead of anything we have had in recent memory and far from "trash".

I will take Rubio all day long. He improves our assists, rebounding and defense for sure. It's a good fit because he is NOT a shoot first PG that has to have the ball to get his shots.

I get all of that, which is why I could be talked into Rubio at the right price, but what would prevent opposing defenses from just backing off of Rubio, daring him to shoot, and crowding Booker, Ayton and the two spot-up shooters that round out our line-up?

 

[Covert Rain]

I get all of that, which is why I could be talked into Rubio at the right price, but what would prevent opposing defenses from just backing off of Rubio, daring him to shoot, and crowding Booker, Ayton and the two spot-up shooters that round out our line-up?

Nothing. Teams have tried that since he entered the league and yet still averaged what he did, got to the free throw line when he did and it didn't stop people from trying to collapse on him while getting 8 assists per game. Rubio his entire career has compensating or that by driving to the basket.

What are teams going to do to him they have not already?

By the way only Russell Westbrook had a higher percentage of drives with assists to teammates. 52% of Rubio’s assists this season have been converted at the rim.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What a frenzy. The emotions and speculation on this board is flopping all over the place.

 

[Yuma]

It all depends on which theory of Championship team you ascribe to. Lately most teams have won with the three superstar theory. Which D'Angelo Russell would definitely bring the Suns. The other teams like Cleveland and Toronto have the theory of one or two superstars with a bunch of very good players. So in theory we have Booker and Ayton, and then you surround them with as many good to very good players as possible. So I think the argument about bring D'Lo here is do you ascribe to theory one and go with three superstars, or do we go with theory two and surround Booker and Ayton with as many good pieces as possible?

 

[SirStefan32]

I have never been a fan of Rubio, but he gets a lot of crap he doesn't deserve. It's not like he is Shaq from the three-point line. He is a 32.2% career shooter from three. Not good, but it's not bad enough for teams to just leave him open consistently. He defends and he can run an offense effectively. Eric Bledsoe is a 33.6% shooter from three for his career.

 

[Hoop Head]

Look at the teammates Rubio has had also. He didn't get a lot of open looks until he got to Utah. He took advantage of that in his first year but Utah's offense fell apart without Igor there this last season. You only had to watch 1 or 2 games to see how much they struggled. Donovan Mitchell went from being a pleasant surprise to someone with expectations and he struggled to live up to those. He proved he needed the ball in his hands more than his rookie year because teams were looking for him to make his move. Rubio suffered because of Mitchell's progression but he is still just 28 years old and has averaged 8 or more assists with a lot less talent around him than the Suns currently have.

Rubio won't have the ball in his hands as much as he did in Minnesota but he will have it more than he did in Utah last year. They tried running a 2 PG set similar to what Dragic and Bledsoe did in year 1 under Hornacek but Mitchell played the Bledsoe role while Rubio was forced off the ball much more.

 

[elindholm]

I have never been a fan of Rubio, but he gets a lot of crap he doesn't deserve. It's not like he is Shaq from the three-point line. He is a 32.2% career shooter from three. Not good, but it's not bad enough for teams to just leave him open consistently. He defends and he can run an offense effectively. Eric Bledsoe is a 33.6% shooter from three for his career.

And let us not forget that Booker is only 35.4% for his career, and was 32.6% last year.