Pick up games, training camp news

[JCSunsfan]

I hope Ayton has a lot of success but being better than Shaq is setting the bar way too high for him. Shaq dominated. It's a different game now. If he, Booker and JJ can get us deep into the playoffs from 2020 and on wards that is enough for me. Just get us respectable again. If we're suddenly as good as the KJ and Barkley team in Sir Charles' first year in the valley that would be unbelievable.

You need to stop with the coach speak and be a fan for a little while.

 

[Chaplin]

I hope Ayton has a lot of success but being better than Shaq is setting the bar way too high for him. Shaq dominated. It's a different game now. If he, Booker and JJ can get us deep into the playoffs from 2020 and on wards that is enough for me. Just get us respectable again. If we're suddenly as good as the KJ and Barkley team in Sir Charles' first year in the valley that would be unbelievable.

You're correct if we're talking EXPECTATIONS, but I see no problem whatsoever for Ayton to have it as a goal.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If he's not the star of Space Jam 3, he's a bust!

 

[leclerc]

You need to stop with the coach speak and be a fan for a little while.

LOL you're right. I'm being far too serious. Getting up there in age (soon mid forties).

 

[Hoop Head]

If Ayton can be the Miami Shaq, I'll be stoked. I don't know if he can be the LA version but that's fine. He did help Miami get a championship and I can live with that here. No need to be greedy and expect him to lead us to a 3-Peat.

 

[JCSunsfan]

7-1, built like Adonis, 44 inch vert (its on vid), 7-5.5 wingspan, runs like a deer, nimble and light on his feet, highly skilled.

Cmon guys. I know we have never had a #1 pick before, and never really had a young big man before, and its been a long time since the playoffs. But Ayton is the best prospect rookie the Suns have ever had in their history. We need to let ourselves get excited a bit and enjoy it. I know, some of you are waiting for a few games. But I am giddy.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am not as sold on Ayton as most people here seem to be, but I cannot recall another kid his age built like that.

 

[Hoop Head]

I am not as sold on Ayton as most people here seem to be, but I cannot recall another kid his age built like that.

Were you in the draft Doncic camp? I don't remember. I can understand not being that sold on Ayton but I'm curious about the reason you're not that sold on him. Is it because you wanted the Suns to take someone else, think he'll take a bit to develop, or don't think he'll end up being a future All-Star type of big?

I think he'll be great, in time, but don't have that high of hopes for him this season. If we had a Chris Paul type of PG to feed him the ball then I would probably be a bit more sold on him but that would be more of having a PG that knows how to set him up rather than what Ayton can actually do on his own. Similar to the leap Amare took when he was paired with Nash. He was a really good prospect before Nash but he didn't look like an All-NBA big until he was paired with Nash. He probably would have been an All-Star with time but Nash helped speed up his development and ascension to being one of the best bigs in the league rather than just being one of the best young bigs in the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Were you in the draft Doncic camp? I don't remember. I can understand not being that sold on Ayton but I'm curious about the reason you're not that sold on him. Is it because you wanted the Suns to take someone else, think he'll take a bit to develop, or don't think he'll end up being a future All-Star type of big?

I think he'll be great, in time, but don't have that high of hopes for him this season. If we had a Chris Paul type of PG to feed him the ball then I would probably be a bit more sold on him but that would be more of having a PG that knows how to set him up rather than what Ayton can actually do on his own. Similar to the leap Amare took when he was paired with Nash. He was a really good prospect before Nash but he didn't look like an All-NBA big until he was paired with Nash. He probably would have been an All-Star with time but Nash helped speed up his development and ascension to being one of the best bigs in the league rather than just being one of the best young bigs in the league.

Booker is going to feed him
Ariza is going to feed him the ball.
Bridges is going to feed him the ball.
JJ is going to feed him the ball.
Even Ryan freaking Anderson is going to feed him the ball.
Its not like point guards are the only players allowed to pass the ball. We don't even have any shoot first point guards on the roster right now.

And that will not include all the rebounds an put backs.

TJ probably wont feed him the ball much.

 

[SirStefan32]

Were you in the draft Doncic camp? I don't remember. I can understand not being that sold on Ayton but I'm curious about the reason you're not that sold on him. Is it because you wanted the Suns to take someone else, think he'll take a bit to develop, or don't think he'll end up being a future All-Star type of big?

I think he'll be great, in time, but don't have that high of hopes for him this season. If we had a Chris Paul type of PG to feed him the ball then I would probably be a bit more sold on him but that would be more of having a PG that knows how to set him up rather than what Ayton can actually do on his own. Similar to the leap Amare took when he was paired with Nash. He was a really good prospect before Nash but he didn't look like an All-NBA big until he was paired with Nash. He probably would have been an All-Star with time but Nash helped speed up his development and ascension to being one of the best bigs in the league rather than just being one of the best young bigs in the league.

No, I would have drafted Ayton with the number one pick as well. I was a defender of Doncic due to ridiculous arguments against him, but I was quite open about wanting Ayton with the number one pick.

My concerns with Ayton are his defense, and his drive/ motor. I am hoping to be very wrong on both of those issues.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No, I would have drafted Ayton with the number one pick as well. I was a defender of Doncic due to ridiculous arguments against him, but I was quite open about wanting Ayton with the number one pick.

My concerns with Ayton are his defense, and his drive/ motor. I am hoping to be very wrong on both of those issues.

Have you seen anything to confirm or allay those doubts?

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

If Ayton can be the Miami Shaq, I'll be stoked. I don't know if he can be the LA version but that's fine. He did help Miami get a championship and I can live with that here. No need to be greedy and expect him to lead us to a 3-Peat.

What if he is the Orlando Shaq?

 

[Hoop Head]

Booker is going to feed him
Ariza is going to feed him the ball.
Bridges is going to feed him the ball.
JJ is going to feed him the ball.
Even Ryan freaking Anderson is going to feed him the ball.
Its not like point guards are the only players allowed to pass the ball. We don't even have any shoot first point guards on the roster right now.

And that will not include all the rebounds an put backs.

TJ probably wont feed him the ball much.

I know he'll get the ball but being fed by Ariza and Bridges is a lot different than being fed by experienced playmakers. If we the Suns had someone that fit that bill, I would have more faith in Ayton being monster right out of the gate. As is, he'll need to do more for himself and that's ok. He won't post as good of numbers as he might be able to with a good PG but that shouldn't stop him from having a good season. It will probably help him more in the long run because he's going to need to learn to get his own shot off. I think the lack of a quality playmaker is one of the reasons that Kokoskov has assigned him the defensive coordinator type of role. That will give him something to focus on that he can do with to little no help. By the time he's a bit more mature and grows into the game some more then we should have a PG that will help him take the next step offensively.

 

[Hoop Head]

What if he is the Orlando Shaq?

I can live with that but I'd like to see him as more of a team player. Shaq in Orlando was really good but he wasn't a great team player. There was talent around him but he didn't seem to take his game to the next level until he went to LA. He won in Orlando because he was too talented to lose. He won in LA because he was ready to be a team player and help put his team over the top and listen to his coach.

 

[SirStefan32]

Have you seen anything to confirm or allay those doubts?

Overall, nothing significant either way. I thought he was bad defensively, and he wasn't really taking up space, posting up, and demanding the ball in the summer league, which is not really that concerning. He is young, he is raw, and I don't have high expectations for his first year or two. It's really hard to see anything until I see him play a few real games. I like what I've seen from him in a few interviews I've seen, thought very disappointed with the Embiid drawing thing a while back. I did like how he handled the last question about the Embiid thing. Shut up and play, young fellow. You haven't done anything yet. Keep your mouth shut and then dunk on Embid's ass five times and hold him scoreless in the game.

EDIT: To make sure I am clear... I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[Yuma]

In Summer League a lot of the analysts, some of whom were ex coaches and players, were saying Ayton had not mastered how to set up the lob pass. Knowing we had Corliss Williamson as a coach, a couple of them said he would know how after working with Corliss.

 

[Yuma]

https://apple.news/Aa8lRtTygQ3SaTXDDjDEPHw

This is perhaps the best Evan Sidery article ever. Good info on Ayton and Bridges. Perhaps explains why the Suns wanted Bridges so much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Have you seen anything to confirm or allay those doubts?

Kinda difficult to answer that before he plays his first pro game, isn’t it?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can live with that but I'd like to see him as more of a team player. Shaq in Orlando was really good but he wasn't a great team player. There was talent around him but he didn't seem to take his game to the next level until he went to LA. He won in Orlando because he was too talented to lose. He won in LA because he was ready to be a team player and help put his team over the top and listen to his coach.

I don’t agree with this. As a youngster he took that Orlando team to the finals. He lost to a more mature Hakeem Olajuwon.

 

[Chaplin]

https://apple.news/Aa8lRtTygQ3SaTXDDjDEPHw

This is perhaps the best Evan Sidery article ever. Good info on Ayton and Bridges. Perhaps explains why the Suns wanted Bridges so much.

Decent article, but he really needs to proofread his stuff. No professional journalist organization is going to take him seriously with all the mistakes in his writing.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t agree with this. As a youngster he took that Orlando team to the finals. He lost to a more mature Hakeem Olajuwon.

I remember that finals and Hakeem took Shaq to school in that series. The LA version of Shaq would have realized there wasn't any getting past him on his own and would have passed more to find a way to beat the Rockets as a team rather than individually beat Hakeem himself. Maybe that was more Phil Jackson's coaching and the triangle than Shaq himself but Shaq seemed to work in the team environment much better in LA than Orlando from what I remember.

 

[Hoop Head]

We are talking about Ayton being comparable to Shaq though. So long as it's not just the Big Shaqtus version of Shaq then I think we'll all be happy if Ayton ends up being mentioned in the same breath as far as how much he dominates the game as Shaq.

 

[GatorAZ]

I remember that finals and Hakeem took Shaq to school in that series. The LA version of Shaq would have realized there wasn't any getting past him on his own and would have passed more to find a way to beat the Rockets as a team rather than individually beat Hakeem himself. Maybe that was more Phil Jackson's coaching and the triangle than Shaq himself but Shaq seemed to work in the team environment much better in LA than Orlando from what I remember.

Hakeem and Shaq took eachother to school in the finals. Shaq was no doubt a top-5 player in the league back then. I thought Orlando Shaq > Laker Pre-Phil Shaq

 

[Hoop Head]

Hakeem and Shaq took eachother to school in the finals. Shaq was no doubt a top-5 player in the league back then. I thought Orlando Shaq > Laker Pre-Phil Shaq

I think he was more of a Russell Westbrook type of player in Orlando. He was a top player, for sure, but being in a weak Eastern conference without MJ helped him reach the finals so quickly. He put up big numbers and was ridiculously dominate for such a young player but until he went to LA he didn't help bring about championships for his team and work in the team concept so the numbers he put up were more to help push his team past their opponents rather than just putting up great stats and winning because the team had more talent. In LA the teams had talent but they also played up to their potential while Orlando the teams had talent, didn't always play to their potential, and would lose out in the playoffs because of that.