PFT on Kliff

[Solar7]

If it were only that easy...

I'd rather one win and 20 years of ineptitude, a la Diamondbacks. It is tremendously hard to be a team to have a short every single year.

In a way, I can agree, but not really. I made a poll last year about how much this team means to each poster, and I guess I need to keep reminding myself that for most people, life goes on when the team is bad, like me with ASU football. But I'm so embroiled in NFL football each weekend that it's wildly aggravating to sit there for a year with no realistic shot at winning.

Teams like the Packers and Steelers seem to constantly have a pretty good shot at things. Since I've been born, we really only have 2008, 2009, and 2015. Hopefully that changes for us since we have a pretty good young QB for the first time... ever.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Incredibly generous to describe anything at the end of the year as growth - we had a gilded path to the playoffs, and finish the home stretch 2-5, only needing to beat a broken 49ers team, or a QB who will likely never start another NFL game.





We agree here, it sure as hell better be.

You asked about growth from year 1 to 2, not just the end of the year. I didn't change the goalposts here...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

In a way, I can agree, but not really. I made a poll last year about how much this team means to each poster, and I guess I need to keep reminding myself that for most people, life goes on when the team is bad, like me with ASU football. But I'm so embroiled in NFL football each weekend that it's wildly aggravating to sit there for a year with no realistic shot at winning.

Teams like the Packers and Steelers seem to constantly have a pretty good shot at things. Since I've been born, we really only have 2008, 2009, and 2015. Hopefully that changes for us since we have a pretty good young QB for the first time... ever.

I hear ya. Except I don't think we could ever be one of those teams. The fanbase isn't big enough to demand it. Success breeds more success. You could argue that the Phoenix area has more fans of other teams than the Cards and that is part of the issue as well. I haven't even gotten into management yet.

 

[Yuma]

I hear ya. Except I don't think we could ever be one of those teams. The fanbase isn't big enough to demand it. Success breeds more success. You could argue that the Phoenix area has more fans of other teams than the Cards and that is part of the issue as well. I haven't even gotten into management yet.

I think based on the size of our Metroplitan area, if we could put a multi year playoff run stint together, we could get a lot of fans on the band wagon. Just look at the Suns this year. I see Suns jerseys everywhere now.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think based on the size of our Metroplitan area, if we could put a multi year playoff run stint together, we could get a lot of fans on the band wagon. Just look at the Suns this year. I see Suns jerseys everywhere now.

Sure, although Phx has ALWAYS been a SUNS town first and foremost. The Cards need at least a 4 of 5 year great stretch before they can convert enough fair weather/transplant fans.

 

[Stout]

Or to how Joseph has improved our defense. It isn't just personnel.

Plus, if you want to go the personnel reasoning for improvement, then Keim isn't as bad as we all think that he is.

We can't have it both ways...

Well, Keim had the #1 pick, so no credit there. Unless he gets credit for having a team bad enough to GET the pick to begin with lol

All credit due to Keim for taking advantage of a truly stupid Houston for the Hop trade.

 

[Yuma]

Sure, although Phx has ALWAYS been a SUNS town first and foremost. The Cards need at least a 4 of 5 year great stretch before they can convert enough fair weather/transplant fans.

I am betting we see way more Cards jerseys this year than Dbacks jerseys around the valley.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, Keim had the #1 pick, so no credit there. Unless he gets credit for having a team bad enough to GET the pick to begin with lol

All credit due to Keim for taking advantage of a truly stupid Houston for the Hop trade.

There should be some when there is still a sizable part of the fanbase that said he made the wrong pick...

 

[Yuma]

Well, Keim had the #1 pick, so no credit there. Unless he gets credit for having a team bad enough to GET the pick to begin with lol

All credit due to Keim for taking advantage of a truly stupid Houston for the Hop trade.

That should have been stopped by the commissioner! LOL! If it had been a fantasy league, all the players would have blocked that trade!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am betting we see way more Cards jerseys this year than Dbacks jerseys around the valley.

Sure, but the Diamondbacks are historically bad right now, so that makes sense.

 

[tnmike]

If I were a hopeless optimist for my entire time as a Cards fan, I'd have burned out looooooooooooong since--and I've only been a fan since the move to the desert. There's positivity and then there's reality. Pessimism with this team is normal; optimism is usually putting blinders on and plugging your ears while singing "lalalalalala" against the soul-crushing reality that the cards usually suck ***.

How many winning seasons have we had since the move to the desert?

There is help available for those who feel traumatized. Reach out to your local agencies and they can help you address the lalalalala syndrome you seem to be experiencing. Remember the 1st step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem

 

[BritCard]

It is easy to find an article superb when you agree with every word of it...

I don't even agree with the title of the thread, but I can at least see that KK isn't even a good coach at this time. That doesn't mean he can't improve quite a bit this year.

Yet he isn't the biggest problem on the team; he probably isn't top 3.

We'll have to disagree on Kliff. Nothing else matters if you have a bad HC.

Not that I'm saying he's bad. He's just not good. A great deal of emperors new clothes going on and people are starting to see it.

 

[Stout]

There is help available for those who feel traumatized. Reach out to your local agencies and they can help you address the lalalalala syndrome you seem to be experiencing. Remember the 1st step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem

I mean, it's like tinnitus, but schizophrenic too.

 

[BritCard]

I hear ya. Except I don't think we could ever be one of those teams. The fanbase isn't big enough to demand it. Success breeds more success. You could argue that the Phoenix area has more fans of other teams than the Cards and that is part of the issue as well. I haven't even gotten into management yet.

Surely this is a chicken and egg thing? The teams that have large nation wide fan bases do so because of historic spells of long term success right?

I don't see how fanbase matters. Various sites monitor this by tracking social media profiles. The biggest teams are those mentioned. Steelers, Packers, Patriots, Cowboys.

The Chiefs are only slightly ahead of the Cards. The Bucs are behind us as are the Brown's, Titans, Bills and Rams.

Fans have nothing to do with success. Success has everything to do with fans.

The biggest indicator of sustained success I can see is ownership. I like Mike. He's a good guy. But he's not a good owner and his father was 10x worse.

 

[football karma]

my argument that the 2020 Cardinals overachieved relative to their roster talent:


First: this is PFT's take AFTER they beat SF in week 1:

You must be registered for see images attach

nearly all outside observers in the pre season put this team in the 6-7-8 win range. Most Vegas lines had their win over/under at 7.5. All this was before losing their best defensive player early in week 5.

2020 offseason key addition contributions:

Hopkins -- yes!
Jordan Philips: hurt, played only 266 snaps. 94th overall ranked interior DL
DeVondre Campbell: 59th ranked LB with a 49 (below average) grade
Devon Kennard: 60th ranked edge. 55 grade

so, D Hop came as advertised, but after that, the other three "big" additions didnt do much for the team.

i think expectations got out of whack after they went 4-2 over the first six games vs. teams that ended up with a .322 winning percentage and then finally beating Seattle at home. After that game, they played teams with a .562 winning percentage.

there is no doubt the Kliff needs to be better, but if you want attribution on "why did the Cards miss the playoffs in 2020" - its 80% Keim / 20% Kliff

 

[slanidrac16]

My concern is that it's really mostly the addition of Kyler and Hopkins that are responsible for most of the perceived "growth." This roster isn't built for long term success right now. I'm not necessarily blaming Kliff or Keim for the weird way free agency worked this year, but with so many one year deals and so many older players, we're going to have to practically rebuild from the ground up again next year.

That's probably what frustrates me the most, I just want to be one of those teams that seems to have a shot every single year.

Absolutely correct. And the reason? KIEM CAN’T DRAFT!

 

[slanidrac16]

I’ll

my argument that the 2020 Cardinals overachieved relative to their roster talent:


First: this is PFT's take AFTER they beat SF in week 1:

You must be registered for see images attach

nearly all outside observers in the pre season put this team in the 6-7-8 win range. Most Vegas lines had their win over/under at 7.5. All this was before losing their best defensive player early in week 5.

2020 offseason key addition contributions:

Hopkins -- yes!
Jordan Philips: hurt, played only 266 snaps. 94th overall ranked interior DL
DeVondre Campbell: 59th ranked LB with a 49 (below average) grade
Devon Kennard: 60th ranked edge. 55 grade

so, D Hop came as advertised, but after that, the other three "big" additions didnt do much for the team.

i think expectations got out of whack after they went 4-2 over the first six games vs. teams that ended up with a .322 winning percentage and then finally beating Seattle at home. After that game, they played teams with a .562 winning percentage.

there is no doubt the Kliff needs to be better, but if you want attribution on "why did the Cards miss the playoffs in 2020" - its 80% Keim / 20% Kliff

I’ll take the under….

 

[cardpa]

Not that hard to understand. It relates to the fierce competition to attract/recruit players in Texas, and as a result, his teams suffered particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

The standard excuse for Kliff. Funny how a guy like Matt Rhule could turn out winning teams at Temple who certainly isn't a hot spot for top recruits and then win with a Baylor team in a similar situation. It's just that, an excuse. It's pretty well known Kliff didn't like spending time recruiting (see attached link) so the excuse of not being able to get good talent is his own fault. The bottom line is Kliff doesn't like to spend time on the areas of responsibility as a HC are they require. This is why he failed in college and it's why he will fail in the NFL if he doesn't take on the full responsibilities of the HC position.

https://wreckemred.com/2019/07/14/t...ff-kingsbury-admits-he-didnt-like-recruiting/

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Not only is Kliff bad, the staff he assembled is bad. The Cards have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.
People are all over Vance Joseph but he’s probably the best, most accomplished coach on the staff.

 

[QuebecCard]

The standard excuse for Kliff. Funny how a guy like Matt Rhule could turn out winning teams at Temple who certainly isn't a hot spot for top recruits and then win with a Baylor team in a similar situation. It's just that, an excuse. It's pretty well known Kliff didn't like spending time recruiting (see attached link) so the excuse of not being able to get good talent is his own fault. The bottom line is Kliff doesn't like to spend time on the areas of responsibility as a HC are they require. This is why he failed in college and it's why he will fail in the NFL if he doesn't take on the full responsibilities of the HC position.

https://wreckemred.com/2019/07/14/t...ff-kingsbury-admits-he-didnt-like-recruiting/

His weakness as a recruiter in College is irrelevant to his role in NFL and no one on this board knows how well he handles his present responsiblities.

 

[QuebecCard]

Not only is Kliff bad, the staff he assembled is bad. The Cards have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.
People are all over Vance Joseph but he’s probably the best, most accomplished coach on the staff.

Who says they are collectively bad besides fans not in the know?. I've read the CV's and they look solid to me.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

my argument that the 2020 Cardinals overachieved relative to their roster talent:


First: this is PFT's take AFTER they beat SF in week 1:

You must be registered for see images attach

nearly all outside observers in the pre season put this team in the 6-7-8 win range. Most Vegas lines had their win over/under at 7.5. All this was before losing their best defensive player early in week 5.

2020 offseason key addition contributions:

Hopkins -- yes!
Jordan Philips: hurt, played only 266 snaps. 94th overall ranked interior DL
DeVondre Campbell: 59th ranked LB with a 49 (below average) grade
Devon Kennard: 60th ranked edge. 55 grade

so, D Hop came as advertised, but after that, the other three "big" additions didnt do much for the team.

i think expectations got out of whack after they went 4-2 over the first six games vs. teams that ended up with a .322 winning percentage and then finally beating Seattle at home. After that game, they played teams with a .562 winning percentage.

there is no doubt the Kliff needs to be better, but if you want attribution on "why did the Cards miss the playoffs in 2020" - its 80% Keim / 20% Kliff

Exactly. This is the counter-argument to the 'KK is the worst part about the AZ Cardinals right now' that I don't have much time to articulate.

 

[DVontel]

Not only is Kliff bad, the staff he assembled is bad. The Cards have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.
People are all over Vance Joseph but he’s probably the best, most accomplished coach on the staff.

Is this supposed to mean anything at all

 

[cardncubfan]

Not only is Kliff bad, the staff he assembled is bad. The Cards have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.
People are all over Vance Joseph but he’s probably the best, most accomplished coach on the staff.

This is absolutely not true. Kugler, Saxon, & Sullivan are some of the very best at their positions. You can probably include Rodgers. You can also add Jim Dray just for K9.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We'll have to disagree on Kliff. Nothing else matters if you have a bad HC.

Not that I'm saying he's bad. He's just not good. A great deal of emperors new clothes going on and people are starting to see it.

I think a bad QB is worse than having a bad coach. You could argue a bad GM is worse than a coach as well.