Comparing a starter to bench guys is a pretty specious argument to me considering the wide gulf in minutes played between bench guys and starters. If you’re judging Ayton by his peers, his peers are starters. There he’s 6 of 16. That’s pretty average.
6 of 16 is average? I guess average is defined differently in this context.
Ok put it a different way. There are 16 starters in the playoffs and only 5 are doing it better. Two of those guys are way ahead of everyone else and the rest are clustered together. No matter how you slice it it's overly critical.
Really? That’s basically him ranked in the top 63.5% at his position. That is pretty average, IMO. It’s fine. But it’s nothing to write home about, especially considering his size and natural athletic talent.
When we’re getting crushed on the boards and his man in particular is one of those you noted is way ahead of the others, it’s not overly critical, IMO.
Finito I agree with you. Ayton is doing his job and until game 5 a lot of blame could be aimed at others players. But in this game 5 ...I hope things have changed for the Suns. The goal is to win the game not to measure the Stat sheet in rebounds. For the older guys here knows Bill Russell never could match rebounds ( Although Russell was a great rebounder)& scoring stats with Chamberlain but guess what Russell had 11 chips to Chamberlain's what 2 or 3 championships. There's a lot of crying and complaining about what Ayton doesn't do this or that but some of us know he's probably the best Center the Suns ever had and he's only 23 and will mature, improve, as he is not a finish product yet but has a high ceiling if he and the Suns staff put in the work. Just think where would the Suns be without Ayton? He is a vital part of this team makeup & success. Jonas isn't flawless. This series is not about Jonas vs. Ayton instead it is about the young upcoming Pelicans vs. the contending Phoenix Suns. As a ex high school varsity basketball coach & fan I want win the game not the stat sheet although the stats help win the game. End goal is the win and although the Suns have slumped a bit in this series their potential to win the championship is as good or better than any team left standing. Hand clap to the Pelicans as they are good young team and Willie Green has done a great job and they are giving us a game and series. But my money is on the Suns.
Payne’s minutes weren’t “cut”… he cut them himself with atrocious foul trouble. But it was nice to see our depth not only finally get used, but payoff.
It's the big man's dilemma, contest the shot or get the board. Rarely are they able to do both. Ayton is getting a fair amount of uncontested or lightly contest shots because JV is choosing to cheat for the rebound instead. At least that is my perception.
I get your point but have you looked at what the other centers and where they rank in every category? Jonas drops off the map in FG% and blocks. Gobert down in assists. Towns FG%. Embiid FG%. Ayton across the board is top 6 in most categories in the playoffs. Many of the others have drop off in other categories. Ayton is one of the most well rounded centers statistically in the playoffs bar none. However, some just nitpick the guy to death. I get frustrated with him too sometimes but then I have to take a step back to say he is one of the best period.
Rebounding is a team thing. Not just an Ayton thing. Pick your poison. You can't rotate out and trap guys and cover the paint at the same time. I completely disagree with your brother's assessment. Our Centers last night were rotating out and trapping guys all night outside the paint. You can't box out to rebound and do that at the same time. IMO, it worked not giving McCollum and Ingraham all these open looks. Plus the Suns were only outrebounded by 7. The TEAM stepped up and did better.
You’ve now offered a totally specious argument comparing Ayton to 32 other centers to inflate his rebounding numbers… against bench players and and now have moved the goalposts of the conversation where you’re talking about his overall game (where everyone agrees he’s one of the better centers in the league) when the discussion was actually about his rebounding.
Wrong. I was always talking about his overall game which includes rebounding. My first post was the perspective post and where he ranks. There was no moving the goalpost. I was making the point to nitpick his rebounding when compared to EVERY CENTER in the playoffs minus two who are dominating is overly critical. His only job isn't to rebound. So when assessing how Ayton is playing I am looking at his overall game. Nobody said there are night's he can't do better but everybody jumps on him about SOMETHING on almost any given night. It's like Ayton has to play the perfect game in every category not to get nitpicked. Even then I bet someone still does.
I agree with everything you said except Payne. On one end of the floor he had a flash but his STUPID decision making and playing out of control is on par with what we have seen him doing for over a month now. Maybe he can get that part of under control but I am not confident. I hope the Suns sake he can because he has been awful in that regard. When his shooting isn't going either? He is utterly useless. I hope Monty continues to give some of his minutes to Holiday.
Honestly looks like a pretty normal motion a player will make when they feel like there is contact. Plus he’s shooting a fadeaway which usually involves kicking that foot out.
I would say just overall team effort. Guys were hustling and really fighting for those 50/50 balls, which we haven't seen in some time. This NO team is scrappy and we just weren't matching their intensity, and I think it took the team by surprise. Also... hitting open shots helps tremendously. If we can be somewhat avg shooting we're a very hard team to beat.
There is no question Alvarado has looked better than Payne overall in this series. That's why nobody is complaining about what he brings to the table.
My question would be how often was he recovering to the paint in these scenarios. Because if he is recovering to the paint after Jonas already has established position down there it is going to be much more difficult for Ayton to get position for the rebound. I don’t doubt that he could be rebounding better, but I think it fair to suggest that because of how much he defends the perimeter it is going to put him out of position for some of these rebounds that are going to NO.
