Pace signed!

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
A few more of these situations like this, where the agent gets caught with his beans above his frank will make next years negotiations much smoother.

right on man! just like bryant's holdout costing him an effective year is making this year's players get in on time! riiiiiight...

 

[Sandan]

All he has to do is make it a 6 or 7 year deal like a lot of the high picks are getting this year.

And just for the more pedantic of us, I tried to find a list and failed, so I am saying that from memory. Geeze !

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan

We know nothing yet about the state of negotiations with BJ. They could be good/bad or disasterous now, the could have been good/bad or disasterous before. We don't know.

Nidan - ingoring the facts don't make them go away. The fact that BJ agent is thinking about filing a grievance doesn't send out hopes of bountiful negotiations. But of course, Len is probably making that up because he doesn't care about the Cardinals and would just like to bag on them for no reason. Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Stout
I'm not saying he won't get a better deal, man. Sorry if I sounded like that, but I've been reacting to the blind faith the fans here seem to have in Rod Graves.

It's possible he'll get a better deal, but Graves will have to become a cap genius and negotiate a deal with about 50 times more incentives than we've ever offered. Do you seriously think he will? I hope so, but I'm not so sure.

Stout,

Pace was signed in a reasonable amount of time IMO. He is a #1 pick and will be here for the necessary reps in camp. That is something I applaude RG for that is no doubt we needed the guy and he got it done. He deserves praise for accomplishing that task!

We know that he has less money to offer up front to Johnson, but that doesnt mean it is necessarily a bad thing IMO. Johnson can easily make it up in a contract that is somewhat backloaded epsecially if they make it guaranteed. This seems to me to be only a minor fould up in the general scheme of things.

If Johnson is still holding ou at the end of August then I will agree with you and probably be a little peeved. But as of now the team has showed progress and has got another 1/53 of the puzzle signed sealed and delivered!

 

[spanky]

There are many ways that Graves can go to get Johnson in sooner than later. Negotiate an extended contract (6-7 years) and then allow for it to void after year five (at Johnson's call, not managements). Throw more 2nd year "guarantees" his way.

Bottom line, if in three years he's a stud, renegotiate the whole enchalada then.

Man- oh-man, I can't believe how short term everyone's thinking has been about this. There is a solution and Graves knows what he's created and what lies ahead of him. What I find funny is that Graves gets super creative with Pace's contract, and has offered stuff that prior to this year was unheard of in a Cardinal contract, and everyone wants to highlite 'non-issue' negatives.

Johnson will be signed quickly......the last thing this team needs (and Graves is aware of this), is a contentious situation that hasn't a way to resolve itself quickly..........he'll get it done!

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Nidan - ingoring the facts don't make them go away. The fact that BJ agent is thinking about filing a grievance doesn't send out hopes of bountiful negotiations. But of course, Len is probably making that up because he doesn't care about the Cardinals and would just like to bag on them for no reason. Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

This is disinformation at it's finest...

I quote the article:

"There now is a chance that Johnson and his agent will consider filing a grievance against the Cardinals, whose bargaining tactics were at least dubious, and who thought enough of the wide receiver three months ago to pluck him before taking Pace off the board"

Nowhere does it say that Bryant Johnson's agent is considering filing a grievance. It merely states that there is a chance he will consider.

You are still ranting.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Shane H
Stout,

Pace was signed in a reasonable amount of time IMO. He is a #1 pick and will be here for the necessary reps in camp. That is something I applaude RG for that is no doubt we needed the guy and he got it done. He deserves praise for accomplishing that task!

We know that he has less money to offer up front to Johnson, but that doesnt mean it is necessarily a bad thing IMO. Johnson can easily make it up in a contract that is somewhat backloaded epsecially if they make it guaranteed. This seems to me to be only a minor fould up in the general scheme of things.

If Johnson is still holding ou at the end of August then I will agree with you and probably be a little peeved. But as of now the team has showed progress and has got another 1/53 of the puzzle signed sealed and delivered!

Shane I would agree with that post, expect, to me, it seems inevitable that Johnson wont be singed for a very long time. I doubt Johnsons agent talking about filing a grievance with the NFL will open up talks do you?

 

[Sandan]

Since when am I ignoring facts.

IMO (for the pedantic with us) the agent is probably kicking up a fuss because he is pissed. I agree and I've said that several times.

From my experience in closing business deals, IMO it seems likely that this is the agent "staking out" his ground. IMO he is now going to try a save face as IMO he screwed up.

I still think that the only problem with getting BJ signed to a fair/slotted deal is his agent being pissed. How pissed we will find out over the next few days.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Like I have said - and I know it probably got lost in my rants - I['m pysched that Pace is in camp - I'm pscyhed we actually used bells and whistles - I'm not psyched about how it went down - which could have a trickle down effect that negates the already horrednous trade we made on Draft day. That is not short term thinking - that's seeing the bigger picture. Pace signing is short term happiness - and I am happy about that - but time will tell whether this is gonna kill negotiations with BJ - and personally I'll side with history over Rod Graves. Come on Graves, prove me wrong - for once.

 

[Pariah]

Another thought:

While this off-season seems to have been riddled with potential blunders (Boston's non-tag, Johnson's holdout, failure to nab Holliday or Colvin), at least the organization is making moves. Graves seems to be committed to change--in personel and philosophy. He's picked a direction, for good or bad, and run with it.

To make a football analogy: Thomas Jones danced around the hole and didn't seem to have a clear sense where he was going when Jake gave him the rock. As a result, he wasn't a very effective running back. Shipp, on the other hand, picks a hole a hits it. Sometimes he got stuffed because it didn't develop and he had already committed himself to a direction; other times he found himself in space with nothing but green between he and the endzone. We all know how that comparison ended up.

Moral of the story: It's better pick a direction and give it 100% than to pussyfoot around and be indecisive.

 

[pinnacle]

based on my training camp observations..one of the biggest problems now is getting approximately 8 -9 new receivers (to the cardinals or new to the nfl) a chance to do something..basically all 13 guys need reps and experience..and there is only so many training camp drills, 7 on 7 and preseason game snaps...as it stands now..all of the receivers are getting a shot - and not all will get enough reps to prove themselves.

I would way more have pace right now over johnson..our dline is not looking very good in my opinion...but some of the receivers are stepping up. Unfortunately, the thinking may have been: if johnson holds out - we could have him in late in camp - when we will be down to like 8 receivers - we can then focus more on getting johnson his reps...mcaddley and gilmore are probably going to be our starters anyway..and they will be backed up by some combination of kasper, boldin, foster, etc...

Not this this is ideal - but in my opinion our bigger need right now is clearly a pass rusher and d lineman..

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Shane I would agree with that post, expect, to me, it seems inevitable that Johnson wont be singed for a very long time. I doubt Johnsons agent talking about filing a grievance with the NFL will open up talks do you?

I dont take Len Pasquerelli as the gospel. I highly doubt he spoke with Johnsons agent and really knows what he plans on doing IMO its all assumptions and no point in me getting upset over an assumption ya know bro!

The Cardinals could come in with an offer that is acceptable in the next few days and everything will be hunky dory.

I certainly wasnt expecting them both to sign at the same time anyways. HONESTLY WERE YOU?

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by Stout
Did I say the offer was always larger than Johnson's? Did I? I said they upped Pace's offer but not Johnson's. They did.

Once again, But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace, after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly.

How can this be Johnson's agent dragging his feet? How? Are you immune to logic? Johnson's agent wasn't OFFERED this deal, so how can he be dragging his feet on a deal that he WASN'T OFFERED?

Oh and another tidbit, Even when they succeed in reaching an agreement, it seems, the Cardinals still manage to bobble the ball.

Dude, seriously, Chill out. Here's how I can see it as dragging his feet. JOhnson, contract A. Pace, contract B. Johnson's agent rejects the contract, wanting much more than Pace (let's guess they were close to equal as PAsqurelli says). Pace's agent rejects but says we are close. Card's go after Pace, get the deal done, and it effects Johnson's rookie number because his agent let all of the other rookies sign and dictate his numbers.

Sound logical to you? It does to me, and has happened in the NFL before.

Would you rather have pace in camp or neither right now? If the above scenario happened would you delay BOTH signings until Johnson was happy?

Relax, man. I'm not angry, no need to imply I am an idiot. I'm just saying WE DON'T KNOW and it is likely Johnson's agent wanted a better deal than Pace, maybe more than just a little better. Heck, Somers said Pace today, Johnson next week.

If Arizona switched to Pace because Johnson was nowhere close to signing what would you do?

 

[Alan]

The sky really hasn't fallen. Sure, there isn't a ton of money left in the rookie pool, but it shouldn't prevent anything. Without getting too creative, the Cardinals can still give him a five-year deal with a $3.75 signing bonus (bigger bonus than Trufant got at #11), with him making the rookie minimum in year one (which is very common). Then in year two and up, his base salary increases to whatever they want it to be. This isn't a big deal.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
thank goodness we signed pace (see, starting with a positive).

stout's right.

thank goodness we signed pace (see, ending with a positive).

I dont agree with "stouts right" but that sure was funny Ouchie!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Alan
Give me a break, guys. The Cardinals have been in serious negotiations with both players. They had a pretty good idea what the contracts would be for both players. They wouldn't sign Pace if it would prevent them from signing Johnson.

that's true, but they did, according to article (the only source of info we have to go on right now), sign pace in a manner that has johnson's agent talking of filing a grievance. that's not good.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Shane H
I dont take Len Pasquerelli as the gospel. I highly doubt he spoke with Johnsons agent and really knows what he plans on doing IMO its all assumptions and no point in me getting upset over an assumption ya know bro!

The Cardinals could come in with an offer that is acceptable in the next few days and everything will be hunky dory.

I certainly wasnt expecting them both to sign at the same time anyways. HONESTLY WERE YOU?

No I didint (Although it would have been nice) but what I am concerned about is Johnsons ability to get a fare contract and not holding out. I just dont see it.

Sure they can do guaranteed money, they can do two-tiered bonuses, but I just dont see it-Hope I am wrong.

We will see!

 

[PDXChris]

To me the big thing is if we would have waited to make both happy and make it fair for both we may have had 2 players holding out until October. Instead we only 1 and since Pace's contract is out there I think it will be easier to get Johnsons done since they have something to work off of.

 

[Alan]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
No I didint (Although it would have been nice) but what I am concerned about is Johnsons ability to get a fare contract and not holding out. I just dont see it.

They can give him a bigger signing bonus than the #4 overall pick. I think that might be considered fair.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by spanky
Johnson will be signed quickly......the last thing this team needs (and Graves is aware of this), is a contentious situation that hasn't a way to resolve itself quickly..........he'll get it done!

my god man, on WHAT facts, history, or precedence are you basing this far-fetched fairy tale of an assumption?!?

we signed pace, YAAAYYYY (another positive comment - sorry i forgot them in some of my prior posts)

 

[Sandan]

As I think many have said it takes WR longer to develop, having him sign a long term deal would a be a good thing for the team.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yippe!

Here is our monster!

Good job Graves! I am all kinds of pyched up!

OH YEAYEAH!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Alan
They can give him a bigger signing bonus than the #4 overall pick. I think that might be considered fair.

Alan, we can give him the biggest signing bonus in the history of the NFL if we want to. That isnt the point. The rookie pool is $900,000-That is what he will be handed a check for. He may be able to get a $20 million dollar bonus, but it will have to be spread out over the life of the contract!

Just do a two-tier bonus with the first 3 years guaranteed and we are ready to go- I really see that happening-NOT!

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Alan
They can give him a bigger signing bonus than the #4 overall pick. I think that might be considered fair.

What in the world are you talking about Alan? Robertson will get 13mil, total, in bonus money. First year, second-tier, however it shakes out, it's the total bonus that matters. Johnson won't come close to that. Nor should he.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Dude, seriously, Chill out. Here's how I can see it as dragging his feet. JOhnson, contract A. Pace, contract B. Johnson's agent rejects the contract, wanting much more than Pace (let's guess they were close to equal as PAsqurelli says). Pace's agent rejects but says we are close. Card's go after Pace, get the deal done, and it effects Johnson's rookie number because his agent let all of the other rookies sign and dictate his numbers.

Sound logical to you? It does to me, and has happened in the NFL before.

It's logical. It's even possible. But there isn't even a little bit of information out there right now to support it. That's why I'm getting heated. You didn't want to admit they got differing deals when it was written out plainly, yet you wish me to accept your mere conjecture on how it is possible that the agent may be dragging his feet as the gospel.

But I'll offer the peace pipe on the heated front. I don't want to get any more upset and I want to take a step back and not be overly angry.