Our franchise QB

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
70,696
Reaction score
21,242
Location
The Dark Side
To be fair - the disdain for Kyler started the day he got drafted.
Before the draft even. Too small. Felt like Keim was making the pick because he missed on Russ Wilson. Had been the only athlete to ditch a pre-draft charity appearance. Uninspired in interviews. The baseball thing.

Those of us with doubts were told he was a "generational talent." We said we hoped that Kyler would "prove us wrong" because, in the end, we are Cards fans. We are still saying "prove us wrong" years later.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
45,807
Reaction score
11,109
And despite that I don't believe he ever said anything about him publicly.

The point being we would likely never know how the locker room feels about Kyler.
Except that was was said privately, was brought out publicly.

If/when that happens with Kyler, I'll concede.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,104
Reaction score
5,876
Location
Mesa, AZ
Against the only undefeated team in the NFL that was supposed to blow us out by all experts and everyone on this board.

The point - we played better than everyone expected but as always - this board is focused 99% on trash talking players/coaches/GM.
Maybe you haven’t noticed but the Cardinals lost. Nobody cares they played better than expected except for the few who are using that as a crutch for their arguments about where this team is at
 

GoldGloveschmidt

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Posts
4,059
Reaction score
6,435
This is a wild statement completely unhinged from reality. Kyler's completion percentage is 1.4% lower than it was in 2020 and 2021. His YPA is almost two yards less (5.8 vs 7.5). His passer rating is 13 points lower. His intended air yards per attempt is almost 2 yards shorter than it was those years. His TD percentage is almost two points lower.

These data points dont refute my statement. All of those stats will improve to 2020/2021 levels with an elite WR1 to throw to. Kyler is the same player he was the last 2 years. Elite WRs make a big difference to quarterbacks stats.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
45,807
Reaction score
11,109
This is a wild statement completely unhinged from reality. Kyler's completion percentage is 1.4% lower than it was in 2020 and 2021. His YPA is almost two yards less (5.8 vs 7.5). His passer rating is 13 points lower. His intended air yards per attempt is almost 2 yards shorter than it was those years. His TD percentage is almost two points lower.

The only things that are better now than the past two years is his interception percentage is lower and his sack rate is lower.
The ironic thing about this, is that with those two in bold lower, you'd expect the above to be higher.

I think that Kyler's most ardent supporters think that he's among the second tier of QBs with Burrow and Herbert. I disagree with that, and it's a pretty fine line between being the NFL's eighth-best QB and the 12th.

FWIW, Kyler's apologists pretty consistently say "Well I guess Patrick Mahomes has never missed an open read" or "Tom Brady forgot the down just last season!"
That's because every missed throw (or sometimes completed throw) gets dissected by fans as proof of how terrible he is. Circular logic to be sure.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
45,807
Reaction score
11,109
Maybe you haven’t noticed but the Cardinals lost. Nobody cares they played better than expected except for the few who are using that as a crutch for their arguments about where this team is at
Laughable. The same vitriol was seen by fans, when we WON against the Raiders. Nice try though.

Winning, or losing isn't everything.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,104
Reaction score
5,876
Location
Mesa, AZ
This is football. Can’t play scared to get hurt.
Sure you can. What you do is you slide short of the first down marker and then make a horrible decision (regardless of who is yapping in your ear) and hurt the team…but you didn’t physically hurt yourself
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,062
Reaction score
14,645
Location
Charlotte
Those of us with doubts were told he was a "generational talent." We said we hoped that Kyler would "prove us wrong" because, in the end, we are Cards fans. We are still saying "prove us wrong" years later.

People "were told" he was a "generational talent" and now "those people" are pissed off and dead set against him until he can prove...what?

Anyone can clearly see and understand his talent and his deficiencies.

What has to happen for Kyler to be liked by the fan base? Be a top 3 QB, win the Superbowl, be Tom Brady, change his name to Josh Rosen,...what?

Kyler is neither the best QB in the NFL or the disaster that we read about on this board every single day.
 

82CardsGrad

7 x 70
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
35,495
Reaction score
6,932
Location
Scottsdale
That's because every missed throw (or sometimes completed throw) gets dissected by fans as proof of how terrible he is. Circular logic to be sure.
C'mon man... Don't you think the position he plays AND the money he's paid, creates the conditions for him - just like every other high-paid (and in many cases, average paid), QB - to be dissected?
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
45,807
Reaction score
11,109
C'mon man... Don't you think the position he plays AND the money he's paid, creates the conditions for him - just like every other high-paid (and in many cases, average paid), QB - to be dissected?
Position over the money to be sure.

Furthermore, there is a obvious scale here. It is super easy to dissect Kyler sliding before the first down. That's on him. It is much harder to dissect:

Throws if a WR runs a wrong route.
Debating on whether player is open.
Oline blocking scheme failures. etc
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
70,696
Reaction score
21,242
Location
The Dark Side
I thought he should have been cut 30 min after missing that kick.
It is mind-boggling that the guy is still on our roster.

Seriously - with so many teams locked in on their kickers for multiple years there must be a huge supply of really good college kickers that never get drafted and therefore never get their shot at making a team. Find and sign any one of those guys and it will be a huge improvement, IMHO.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,658
Reaction score
61,408
People "were told" he was a "generational talent" and now "those people" are pissed off and dead set against him until he can prove...what?

Anyone can clearly see and understand his talent and his deficiencies.

What has to happen for Kyler to be liked by the fan base? Be a top 3 QB, win the Superbowl, be Tom Brady, change his name to Josh Rosen,...what?

Kyler is neither the best QB in the NFL or the disaster that we read about on this board every single day.
He has accomplished NOTHING here and you’re asking what he needs to do to prove himself? How about win a division? How about lead the team to a playoff win? How about just playing consistent throughout an entire season as opposed to the Jekyll and Hyde of the last two seasons and the straight up mediocrity at best he’s played this season?

Asking for a #1 pick who’s now being paid like a top 3 QB in the league to be better than inconsistent isn’t calling him a disaster, no matter how many times you want to project that unfounded and inane argument.
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,062
Reaction score
14,645
Location
Charlotte
He has accomplished NOTHING here and you’re asking what he needs to do to prove himself? How about win a division? How about lead the team to a playoff win? How about just playing consistent throughout an entire season as opposed to the Jekyll and Hyde of the last two seasons and the straight up mediocrity at best he’s played this season?

Asking for a #1 pick who’s now being paid like a top 3 QB in the league to be better than inconsistent isn’t calling him a disaster, no matter how many times you want to project that unfounded and inane argument.

You can kid yourself with the smokescreen/denial but this has been going on with K1 from day 1.

Matt Leinart and Josh Rosen were anointed from day 1 and couldn't hold K1's jockstrap. BTW - they accomplished NOTHING.
 
OP
OP
Shane

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,247
Reaction score
32,482
Location
Las Vegas
You can kid yourself with the smokescreen/denial but this has been going on with K1 from day 1.

Matt Leinart and Josh Rosen were anointed from day 1 and couldn't hold K1's jockstrap. BTW - they accomplished NOTHING.

Talk about some absolute delusional revisionist history.

Matt Leinart was trashed on this board incessantly. Also rightfully so.

Rosen anointed? Puhhhlease…..
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,050
Reaction score
26,866
Location
Gilbert, AZ
He has accomplished NOTHING here and you’re asking what he needs to do to prove himself? How about win a division? How about lead the team to a playoff win? How about just playing consistent throughout an entire season as opposed to the Jekyll and Hyde of the last two seasons and the straight up mediocrity at best he’s played this season?

Asking for a #1 pick who’s now being paid like a top 3 QB in the league to be better than inconsistent isn’t calling him a disaster, no matter how many times you want to project that unfounded and inane argument.
Like winning a game to clinch a playoff spot would be a huge first step for him. He's had multiple chances to get it done. Instead he lead us bass-ackwards into the playoffs by losing less quickly than our competitors.

It seems wild that so many fans don't really understand the differences between individual accomplishments and team success.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
70,696
Reaction score
21,242
Location
The Dark Side
Talk about some absolute delusional revisionist history.

Matt Leinart was trashed on this board incessantly. Also rightfully so.

Rosen anointed? Puhhhlease…..
Leinart was a far better college QB than K1 but was not liked by many Cards fans because he came from USC. Also had some really bad injury breaks - including two broken collarbones during his NFL career.

Rosen was someone Keim traded up for when there was no need because no one else was going to grab him that high. Many fans (like me) wanted Lamar Jackson in that draft.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
70,696
Reaction score
21,242
Location
The Dark Side
Like winning a game to clinch a playoff spot would be a huge first step for him. He's had multiple chances to get it done. Instead he lead us bass-ackwards into the playoffs by losing less quickly than our competitors.

It seems wild that so many fans don't really understand the differences between individual accomplishments and team success.
THIS x 1,000
 
OP
OP
Shane

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,247
Reaction score
32,482
Location
Las Vegas
Like winning a game to clinch a playoff spot would be a huge first step for him. He's had multiple chances to get it done. Instead he lead us bass-ackwards into the playoffs by losing less quickly than our competitors.

It seems wild that so many fans don't really understand the differences between individual accomplishments and team success.

Really doesn’t matter him saying they were anointed day 1 by this fan base is laughable.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
537,468
Posts
5,270,858
Members
6,276
Latest member
ConpiracyCard
Top