Oh...your tears are so delicious!

[Cards Czar]

K9, just once it would be nice to hear you put a positive spin on ANYTHING this team does. Talk about a negative nellie!

I have to agree with you 40. This guy never has a good thing to say about the cardinals. Yea 2 of their players where out for the game but that's football. OK so its ok to complain about there players being out but not ours?? K-9 you really should change your avatar to debbie downer Really!!

 

[kerouac9]

Just don't get you at times...

Revisionist history does nothing to add to the debate. We knew, as we entered week one this year, what our situation was. We knew that Breaston, Hightower and the rest were gone. We knew Williams was lost for the year. We knew we had a brand new DC, a new QB, and that our roster was revamped more than any other roster in the NFL. And we knew that all of that change was amplified by the lack of a training camp.
So, based upon those facts, I really don't see how are current position can be viewed as disappointing. That just seems completely disconnected from the facts. And now, at this juncture where we sit at 6 & 7, winners of 5 of our last 6 and a slim shot at the post season, with our starting FS out for most of the season, the QB we invested heavily in missing most of the season forcing us to go with a 5th round stretch pick at QB, a less than 100% Beanie Wells, nagging injuries at RT that have caused us to have to continue to rotate Keith and Bridges, our best DT out for the majority of the season... Sorry dude... IMHO, I think it's a minor miracle that we sit where we sit at this point. Somehow, Whiz held onto this team. Sitting at 1 & 6 and steering right into the abyss, he somehow kept the team together. Somehow Horton has been able to piece his defensive scheme together in a way that our guys have matured and learned and improved tremendously over the past 6 weeks.
You can discount all of that all you want by bringing up our schedule... however, last I checked, the Cowboys were 7 & 4 and the 9ers 10 & 2 when we played them - and beat them.

I am not at all suggesting that the Cards are now some sort of a juggernaut. They're not. But, I have no problem saying that I am totally surprised that we are 6 & 7 with a remote chance at the post season, given all of the above. I am totally surprised that Whiz didn't lose this team. And I am totally surprised by the marked improvement of our defense.

It seems to me that regardless of what happens the rest of the way this year, we will enter 2012 on a very positive note with one big, glaring spotlight shinning on Kolb. Since he'll probably not play this Sunday, that means that at best, we'll have 2 remaining games to potentially learn something about him. In essence, we will have gone the entire season and not really learned anything about Kolb... That sucks of course, however, I'm ok with that seeing how the rest of the team has come together. And all I can do is hope that next season, with a full training camp under his belt (and who knows, maybe Haley is back! ), that Kolb will prove to be worth the money we spent... If not, it sure seems to me that we have another QB worthy of investing in - Skelton. I'm cool with that...

That you essentially repeated your last post doesn't change anything. The Cards should be 8-8 this season. That's what I'd predicted they'd be. So they performed to my expectations. Your expectations were lower for them. You thought this team would be lucky to get to 7 wins. Who's the bad fan now?

Injuries effect every team in the NFL. That we lost a rookie running back and a couple of middling defensive players doesn't change much; ask Tony Sparano or Todd Haley whether injuries effect expectations in the NFL.

Again, if Kolb--Whis's hand-picked winner QB--had managed to beat one of the two worst teams in the NFL--Minnesota or Washington--we'd be in the playoff hunt right now. Those are the losses we should be pissed about, not the Giants game.

It's sad to me that you've been so beaten down as a fan and your expectations for this team are so low that you're satisfied with 7 wins and a 6 game losing streak against a bunch of sub-mediocre teams. I'm thrilled at where this team is right now, but we've done the same things that Denver and Seattle have been able to do. It sure beats the alternative, but I'm not going to be doing backflips until we actually reach .500.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That you essentially repeated your last post doesn't change anything. The Cards should be 8-8 this season. That's what I'd predicted they'd be. So they performed to my expectations. Your expectations were lower for them. You thought this team would be lucky to get to 7 wins. Who's the bad fan now?

Really? You're now gonna question someone's belief in the team? So lame....
Is there a rule that says that in order to be considered a fan, you must be blind to reality? Gimme a break dude.

Injuries effect every team in the NFL. That we lost a rookie running back and a couple of middling defensive players doesn't change much; ask Tony Sparano or Todd Haley whether injuries effect expectations in the NFL.

Why would I ask two guys who've been fired? Our guy has had to deal with injuries, including our starting QB who was in his first season with the team and had essentially zero camp time, and yet, our guy somehow kept the team together and has overcome the injuries. What am I missing??

Again, if Kolb--Whis's hand-picked winner QB--had managed to beat one of the two worst teams in the NFL--Minnesota or Washington--we'd be in the playoff hunt right now. Those are the losses we should be pissed about, not the Giants game.

I am pissed about those losses. Where did you get the impression I'm not. In fact, I've never even mentioned the Giants game. At the same time, I am being realistic about my expectations for Kolb. Did I expect him to look better than he has? Sure. However, I am not surprised at all that he has struggled. Next season is his true test.

It's sad to me that you've been so beaten down as a fan and your expectations for this team are so low that you're satisfied with 7 wins and a 6 game losing streak against a bunch of sub-mediocre teams. I'm thrilled at where this team is right now, but we've done the same things that Denver and Seattle have been able to do. It sure beats the alternative, but I'm not going to be doing backflips until we actually reach .500.

Sorry you're sad... And for the record, I am not "satisfied" with 6 or 7 wins. I'm simply being real and understanding of our current situation and the facts. And, I'm certainly not doing backflips simply because we're 1 game under .500. Am I impressed that Whiz somehow got us to this point given where we were 7 weeks ago? Absolutely. And if you aren't... if you can't appreciate the turnaround that has taken place during this season, then I can only conlcude that you are simply unrealistic and out of touch with reality. Nobody, and I mean nobody was predicting we would go 5 & 1 over this recent 6 game stretch, beating both Dallas and SF. At 1 & 6, it's safe to say that the best anyone was hoping for was that we would somehow squeek out 3 or 4 more W's before the end of the season. Everyone was just about done on Kolb. Done on Horton. Done on Whiz. Go back and read the threads from 7 weeks ago...
What Whiz has done over these past 6 weeks has been monumental. Period. And I will enjoy the run and the W's and the better play for as long as it lasts. I hope the Gods shine on us and we find our way into the postseason, however, if we don't, I'll be ok and be really stoked for next season, when we have:

- A healthy Ryan Williams
- A full camp under Kolb's belt
- A healthy Dan Williams
- A healthy Kerry Rhodes
- Another season and full camp for Peterson
- A full camp for Horton to work with our defense
- A full camp for Colledge to mesh with the rest of the o-line and the offense
- Another year of growth and maturity for Daryl Washingon, Schofield, Acho and Carter.

Anyway, I can enjoy the rest of this season regardless of where we end up as I can see progress. I can see a team that does believe in themselves and their coaches. That's an enormous adn essential ingredient for success. I see talent that can be coached and enhanced - particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And, I've seen enough from both Kolb and Skelton to suggest that, while they might not ever be one the level of Kurt Warner, Peyton or even Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees, they could become good enough to help this team into the post season on a consistent basis. Guess we'll seen - next season...

 

[kerouac9]

I wasn't one of those people calling for Horton or Whis's head during the losing streak. Horton has done an excellent job bringing this defense together, and I'm happy to say that I was wrong in saying that we settled for our second or third choice.

I also wasn't part of the chorus saying that the team had quit on Whis during the losing streak. Go back to those threads and you'll see me saying that especially in the Minneosta game where the defense could've folded up stakes after going down 21-0 (which they did constantly last year), this team was still working hard on staying together.

I'm never surprised when this team wins a home game. I didn't take us in my football pool against San Francisco, but I did take us against Dallas. This team is good at home, and can beat good teams.

Mostly I'm disappointed that I don't seem to be as wrong about Kevin Kolb as I was about Daryl Washington. We invested a lot of currency in a guy who might end up being as good as Matt Cassell and isn't clearly better than John Skelton. I think that this team can be competitive on defense as long as essential players stay healthy (I shudder to think about this defense if Dockett or Campbell go down). I'm glad that Whis finally installed the offense that I have been begging this team to put out there for a year and a half.

I'm cautiously optimistic for next year. We faced the easiest schedule in the NFL this year, and we ended up 8-8. Next year we'll likely be turning over at least one offensive tackle position and maybe both of them. I wanted this team to be one that no one wants to play at the end of the year, and I think that's what we are. Unfortunately, we're not playing anyone with a future except maybe Cincy (pending this weekend's results), so it's going to be hard to put together an argument that we're good if we finish the season beating Dallas, San Fran, Cleveland, St. Louis (twice), and Seattle. A win is a win in the NFL, but four of those wins are less than impressive.

My other concern is that we're just not putting teams away. Look how Seattle dismantled St. Louis Monday night. We can't seem to put together a complete win like that, and winning 6 or 7 games by 7 points or less just isn't sustainable. We lost a couple of games like that early in the season, and we won a handful like that late. It's good that we've only been blown out a couple of times, but right now I think we're a middle-class NFL team that'll be a game above or below .500.

What I really want to see and would view as a step forward is re-signing Calais Campbell. Not Franchising him, but making him one of the highest-paid players on the defense. That would be the next big step forward in my eyes. He deserves $30 million guaranteed.

 

[Cardiac]

I wasn't one of those people calling for Horton or Whis's head during the losing streak. Horton has done an excellent job bringing this defense together, and I'm happy to say that I was wrong in saying that we settled for our second or third choice.

I also wasn't part of the chorus saying that the team had quit on Whis during the losing streak. Go back to those threads and you'll see me saying that especially in the Minneosta game where the defense could've folded up stakes after going down 21-0 (which they did constantly last year), this team was still working hard on staying together.

I'm never surprised when this team wins a home game. I didn't take us in my football pool against San Francisco, but I did take us against Dallas. This team is good at home, and can beat good teams.

Mostly I'm disappointed that I don't seem to be as wrong about Kevin Kolb as I was about Daryl Washington. We invested a lot of currency in a guy who might end up being as good as Matt Cassell and isn't clearly better than John Skelton. I think that this team can be competitive on defense as long as essential players stay healthy (I shudder to think about this defense if Dockett or Campbell go down). I'm glad that Whis finally installed the offense that I have been begging this team to put out there for a year and a half.

I'm cautiously optimistic for next year. We faced the easiest schedule in the NFL this year, and we ended up 8-8. Next year we'll likely be turning over at least one offensive tackle position and maybe both of them. I wanted this team to be one that no one wants to play at the end of the year, and I think that's what we are. Unfortunately, we're not playing anyone with a future except maybe Cincy (pending this weekend's results), so it's going to be hard to put together an argument that we're good if we finish the season beating Dallas, San Fran, Cleveland, St. Louis (twice), and Seattle. A win is a win in the NFL, but four of those wins are less than impressive.

My other concern is that we're just not putting teams away. Look how Seattle dismantled St. Louis Monday night. We can't seem to put together a complete win like that, and winning 6 or 7 games by 7 points or less just isn't sustainable. We lost a couple of games like that early in the season, and we won a handful like that late. It's good that we've only been blown out a couple of times, but right now I think we're a middle-class NFL team that'll be a game above or below .500.

What I really want to see and would view as a step forward is re-signing Calais Campbell. Not Franchising him, but making him one of the highest-paid players on the defense. That would be the next big step forward in my eyes. He deserves $30 million guaranteed.

While I may not agree with all your points I must say Quality Post.

An interesting stat would be to see what % of games played in the NFL are decided by 7 points or less. I have a feeling the Cards would be above the NFL avg but by how much could be a telling point.

 

[CardLogic]

An interesting stat would be to see what % of games played in the NFL are decided by 7 points or less. I have a feeling the Cards would be above the NFL avg but by how much could be a telling point.

Without checking, I'm going to guess that nearly half of all NFL games are decided by 7 points or less.

 

[kerouac9]

While I may not agree with all your points I must say Quality Post.

An interesting stat would be to see what % of games played in the NFL are decided by 7 points or less. I have a feeling the Cards would be above the NFL avg but by how much could be a telling point.

I'll do a quick look over the last couple of weeks, but you're probably right on both counts. IMO the Cards are a middle-class NFL team right now. They'll finish somewhere around 8-8 despite the losing streak. I always go back to this quote from the Football Outsiders Almanac:

Championship teams are generally defined by their ability to dominate inferior opponents, not their ability to win close games.

Football games are often decided by just one or two plays — a missed field goal, a bouncing fumble, the subjective spot of an official on fourth-and-1. One missed assignment by a cornerback or one slightly askew pass that bounces off a receiver’s hands and into those of a defensive back five yards away and the game could be over. In a blowout, however, one lucky bounce isn’t going to change things. Championship teams beat their good opponents convincingly and destroy the cupcakes on the schedule.

Week 14 had 7 of 16 games decided by a TD or less.
Week 13 had 7 of 16 as well.
Week 12 had 10 of 16.
Week 11 had 7 of 14.
Week 10 had 8 of 16.

So let's say that half of the NFL's games are within a TD. This season the Cards have 10 of 13 games decided by a TD or less. The other 3 games were losses.

Compare that to a .500-ish team like Dallas. They're 7-6, but have 9 games decided by a TD or less against a more difficult schedule and blowing out teams like Buffalo and St.Louis.

Dallas is 4-5 in games decided by a TD or less. The main problem for the Cards going forward is finding a way to put their boots on the throats of teams like St. Louis, Seattle, and Cleveland.

 

[Cardiac]

I'll do a quick look over the last couple of weeks, but you're probably right on both counts. IMO the Cards are a middle-class NFL team right now. They'll finish somewhere around 8-8 despite the losing streak. I always go back to this quote from the Football Outsiders Almanac:



Week 14 had 7 of 16 games decided by a TD or less.
Week 13 had 7 of 16 as well.
Week 12 had 10 of 16.
Week 11 had 7 of 14.
Week 10 had 8 of 16.

So let's say that half of the NFL's games are within a TD. This season the Cards have 10 of 13 games decided by a TD or less. The other 3 games were losses.

Compare that to a .500-ish team like Dallas. They're 7-6, but have 9 games decided by a TD or less against a more difficult schedule and blowing out teams like Buffalo and St.Louis.

Dallas is 4-5 in games decided by a TD or less. The main problem for the Cards going forward is finding a way to put their boots on the throats of teams like St. Louis, Seattle, and Cleveland.

Thanks K9, good stuff.

It's good to learn how to win the close games as there will be some but to make a living that way is not only difficult but incredibly hard on the fan base.

We all got goofey giddy with PP's punt return to win in OT against the Rams but I for one would like a fairly stress free game where we own the opponent from kickoff to final gun.

 

[CardLogic]

It's good to learn how to win the close games as there will be some but to make a living that way is not only difficult but incredibly hard on the fan base.

We all got goofey giddy with PP's punt return to win in OT against the Rams but I for one would like a fairly stress free game where we own the opponent from kickoff to final gun.

Being a Cardinals fan is not for the weak-hearted!

 

[Cardiac]

Being a Cardinals fan is not for the weak-hearted!

I would say that Cards fans need extremely strong hearts. Those with average/normal hearts are at risk.

BTW: Great quotes in your signature lines.