Now Orton may be in play for the Cards

[TJ]

Something smells a little fishy with Orton and I cant put my finger on it.

The guy is only 28 years old and might be traded for a 2nd time going to his third team. Bears tried replacing him with Brian Griese, Chris Leak, then finally did it with Cutler. Now the Bronco's are trying to replace him with Tim Tebow and maybe trying to trade him away as well. A good 28 year old starting QB should have found a team to stick with by now shouldnt he have? Lots of rumors that he isnt exactly a leader of men or trust worthy in the red zone or close games, this is coming from both the Bears and Denver beat writters. In the 4th quarter with + or - 7 points his QB rating drops to under 60. The stats look good overall but so did Ronald McKinnons.

Besides the Cards Denver Game last year I never have really paid attention to his play so the above is all I have to go on.

If you google Orton, there are a bunch of pics of him wasted with a bunch of chicks. It could be he has off-the-field issues that aren't discussed ad nauseum because he isn't a big name guy. If this is the case, Im all but certain these Orton rumors are what they are; rumors.

I want to believe Orton's could be a viable option; however, the team has to account for why teams continuously try and replace him, especially with Tebow, who they reached for in the draft and has (or had) issues with mechanics. Plus, Elway has been gushing over him ever since he got hired so I highly doubt Orton is in their long-term plans.

I simply don't trust him.

 

[Stout]

This rumor is good news, if for no other reason than our FO is generating buzz and making sure the Eagles know that Kolb isn't the only option.

Personally, I'd much rather have Orton thank Kolb. I like him better as a QB and think he'll be cheaper to trade for. I'd still rather get Hill, but I don't think he'll be available for trade.

 

[TJ]

This rumor is good news, if for no other reason than our FO is generating buzz and making sure the Eagles know that Kolb isn't the only option.

Personally, I'd much rather have Orton thank Kolb. I like him better as a QB and think he'll be cheaper to trade for. I'd still rather get Hill, but I don't think he'll be available for trade.

Dont think this matters. There are several teams in play for Kolb, so us attempting to posture would only put us out of the running.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you're on an island if you think Hill would be a QBoF type. I don't understand your infatuation for an average QB who has never been considered by anyone, except for the hapless 49ers, as anything more than a back up.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Something smells a little fishy with Orton and I cant put my finger on it.

The guy is only 28 years old and might be traded for a 2nd time going to his third team. Bears tried replacing him with Brian Griese, Chris Leak, then finally did it with Cutler. Now the Bronco's are trying to replace him with Tim Tebow and maybe trying to trade him away as well. A good 28 year old starting QB should have found a team to stick with by now shouldnt he have? Lots of rumors that he isnt exactly a leader of men or trust worthy in the red zone or close games, this is coming from both the Bears and Denver beat writters. In the 4th quarter with + or - 7 points his QB rating drops to under 60. The stats look good overall but so did Ronald McKinnons.

Besides the Cards Denver Game last year I never have really paid attention to his play so the above is all I have to go on.

DING DING DING.

I will NEVER understand why people are pimping Kyle Orton. Is he better then Derek Anderson? For sure. Is he a middling 20TD 15 INT guy whose just good enough to get you knocked out the first round of the playoffs? I don't see how anyone could point to anything that says otherwise.

If hes that good you don't trade him as a throw in to the Cutler trade. You dont draft a highly flawed rookie QB in the first round. You don't demote him time and time again. You don't win 2 FREAKING GAMES WITH HIM STARTING like they did last year.

My god please just say no to Kyle freaking Orton. He is a mirage and is nothing more then a middling starter. I guarantee people are looking to replace him by Game 8 next year if he comes here. Hes just so.....blase.

I would rather have Bulger and thats saying something.

 

[TheCardFan]

Sounds like we are (rightfully) going to be a rumored spot for every QB option. I haven't seen any Alex Smith or Matt Hasselbeck rumors but I feel like they're coming soon.

Whiz expressed numerous times lately that "this team has a specific plan" and that "we are going to be aggressive in our approach whenever there's a free agency." I think what this means is that we we're going to upgrade the QB position and we're willing to exhaust whatever resources we need to.

The only question is how do we rate these guys.

Call me crazy but I think Alex Smith is a viable option. With the drafting of Kaepernick...there is no way he gets a contract that he would want from SF.

Here is my fav list:

1) Palmer - proven QB and top 15 in NFL
2) Orton - not going to kill you with INT's. Good option if the price is right.
3) Kolb - un-proven and not willing to trade a #1 pick
4) A. Smith - A gamble but better than the options below
4) McNabb - 1 or 2 year stop gap.

No way jose: Bulger or Hasselbeck

 

[TheCardFan]

DING DING DING.

I will NEVER understand why people are pimping Kyle Orton. Is he better then Derek Anderson? For sure. Is he a middling 20TD 15 INT guy whose just good enough to get you knocked out the first round of the playoffs? I don't see how anyone could point to anything that says otherwise.

Beats 5-11 doesn't it?

I don't think anyone is saying Orton is the QBOF. He is a guy that would immediately put you in contention for the division and the playoffs and until we find the QBOF...I think that is an upgrade.

EDIT: Orton is totally getting traded or cut...look at his cap number for 2011:

The Broncos would owe him $8.4 million if he's here next fall — far too much for a backup. The deal includes a $1.5 million roster bonus due after the start of the league year, whenever that may be because of the labor uncertainty. The salary is $6.89 million, but only $2.89 million is guaranteed.

Read more: Contracts of Denver's QBs will be a factor in 2011 - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16955094#ixzz1LaVAdPos
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

 

[Cards Czar]

Actually, in an obscure hollow somewhere in middle Tennessee, there's this tree where all the QB's come from.

No kidding, it's the truth. I got it first hand from a blog....

If i remember right, Isn't that called Payton's Hollow!

 

[joeshmo]

I've heard the opposite.

They were talking about it this morning actually. Said they talked to 2 beat writters in Chicago and 2 in Denver and all four said the same thing.

I tend to believe it or he wouldnt be thought about being traded for the 2nd time at the age of 28.

 

[kerouac9]

The stats just don't bear that out, Catfish.

Again, FootballOutsiders' analyitics say that Orton is a good QB. Top 15 in 2010 and 2009.

There's something about Orton that just isn't very quarterback-y. Kind of like... I don't know... Antonio Smith or someone. You don't really want to have him as your starter, but he's maddeningly hard to replace. Because he's productive when he's had the chance to play, if you're going to let a guy struggle, then you almost have to get rid of him.

Something smells a little fishy with Orton and I cant put my finger on it.

The guy is only 28 years old and might be traded for a 2nd time going to his third team. Bears tried replacing him with Brian Griese, Chris Leak, then finally did it with Cutler. Now the Bronco's are trying to replace him with Tim Tebow and maybe trying to trade him away as well. A good 28 year old starting QB should have found a team to stick with by now shouldnt he have? Lots of rumors that he isnt exactly a leader of men or trust worthy in the red zone or close games, this is coming from both the Bears and Denver beat writters. In the 4th quarter with + or - 7 points his QB rating drops to under 60. The stats look good overall but so did Ronald McKinnons.

Besides the Cards Denver Game last year I never have really paid attention to his play so the above is all I have to go on.

I'm interested to see what FootballOutsiders has to say about him in their new annual (it's worth visiting the site now because they have a "held hostage" lock on their banner ). If Whis really wants a QB who will compete and take the job, he couldn't do much better than Orton, who has done it three or four times now.

I think that you're right in that he seems to be a kind of poor man's Matt Schaub: Will complete passes and get yardage, but when the game is on the line you can't trust him to stay healthy or seal the deal for your team. Alex Smith might be the same way.

I'd prefer Orton (minus a third-round pick at the absolute highest) to Bulger and Kolb (minus a first-round pick plus likely a conditional something), although not to Palmer (minus a second round pick that I'd accelerate to a first with performance). Orton doesn't have to be forever, and I don't think he'd "spoil" any younger players we might bring in.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They were talking about it this morning actually. Said they talked to 2 beat writters in Chicago and 2 in Denver and all four said the same thing.

I tend to believe it or he wouldnt be thought about being traded for the 2nd time at the age of 28.

gotta say, i'm with joe on orton. doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[seesred]

IMO I think Orton would thrive in Whiz's system. He is young has a good arm. Fitz would like the idea.

GBR
40

 

[earthsci]

Orton battling it out with Skelton for starter would make me feel much better than Anderson battling it out with Skelton for starter. That said, I would rather get Kolb or Palmer. Maybe even Glass Joe (Marc Bulger).

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not sure what people expect from the QB position in 2011. Is Orton clearly better than Derek Anderson and John Skelton? Will his draft pick trade compensation be lower than for Kolb or Palmer? The answer to both questions is clearly yes.

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

People would rather go with Kevin Kolb's middling potential for the next five years (and that's what you're committing to if you trade a first rounder for him then pay him $35 million guaranteed on an extension) than live with Palmer/Orton/Bulger for a season and see where we are after that.

Strange.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not sure what people expect from the QB position in 2011. Is Orton clearly better than Derek Anderson and John Skelton? Will his draft pick trade compensation be lower than for Kolb or Palmer? The answer to both questions is clearly yes.

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

People would rather go with Kevin Kolb's middling potential for the next five years (and that's what you're committing to if you trade a first rounder for him then pay him $35 million guaranteed on an extension) than live with Palmer/Orton/Bulger for a season and see where we are after that.

Strange.

Good points. Koolaider in me says Kolb potential more than middling. (and is 7 million a year really that much?)

Orton also middling in crunch time.

I just don't cherish the thought of "living with a QB for a season" over and over again.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Good points. Koolaider in me says Kolb potential more than middling. (and is 7 million a year really that much?)

Orton also middling in crunch time.

I just don't cherish the thought of "living with a QB for a season" over and over again.

Agree with K9 on this one. I guess it all depends on how you view Kolb, if you view him as a potential savior, it makes sense. I don't see it, so would rather spend a 3rd on Orton or even better, a 2nd on Palmer then risk a huge contract/draft haul for Kolb.

 

[BigRedFan]

What's interesting is why Kolb's draft pick compensation would be higher than Orton's (we of course don't know yet but just going by the rumors) when he hasn't proven as much on the field as of yet. I say give a 2nd rounder for someone who has proved more recently (orton, palmer), and only settle for someone who has proved themselves in the past but not recently if no picks are involved (Bulger, Hasselbeck). Better this than to give up anything more unless you are confident in that QB as franchise material. For a franchise QB I'd want someone with a more accomplished college background (for ex Brees and Manning who each had 4 solid yrs of college experience) than someone with an undistinguished college background and a few good NFL games mixed with some bad ones. (Kolb). Since that chance didnt come in the draft, I'm glad we didn't reach for someone like Gabbert/Newton and went for more immediate value. When the right long term prospect does come along, we will be glad we didn't overpay for someone who wasnt a long term solution to begin with.

I'm not sure what people expect from the QB position in 2011. Is Orton clearly better than Derek Anderson and John Skelton? Will his draft pick trade compensation be lower than for Kolb or Palmer? The answer to both questions is clearly yes.

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

People would rather go with Kevin Kolb's middling potential for the next five years (and that's what you're committing to if you trade a first rounder for him then pay him $35 million guaranteed on an extension) than live with Palmer/Orton/Bulger for a season and see where we are after that.

Strange.

 

[Stout]

gotta say, i'm with joe on orton. doesn't pass the smell test.

Thesmel test?

 

[kerouac9]

Good points. Koolaider in me says Kolb potential more than middling. (and is 7 million a year really that much?)

Orton also middling in crunch time.

I just don't cherish the thought of "living with a QB for a season" over and over again.

I don't cherish that thought, but I would rather "live with a QB" for a season then go through the Josh McCown experience again where you're arguing that a guy has only had 16/20/25 starts and hoping for three or four years that he'll come around.

I also worry that Kolb is a desperation play by the front office to be relevant at the QB position immediately. Can you objectively evaluate a player when your desperate for anything to give yourself hope?

If there's no clear option, I'd prefer settling for something that I know is a B-minus with Palmer or Orton or even Bulger and kick the evaluation down the road for a year and see what the draft has in store or whether Skelton can develop. The cost for Kolb--a player I have little faith can be better than Matt Cassell (IMO a middle-of-the-pack starting QB)--is too high both in terms of draft pick commitment and contract extension.

Just to let you know what Cassell got when he was traded to the Chiefs for a second-round pick: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4327067

That's six years, $63 million, $28 guaranteed. Cassell is making $40.5 million in the first three years of his contract. That's where the Bulger extension will start.

Anderson/Hall/Skelton was "living with" the QB situation for a year. Palmer and Orton would be giving yourself a chance to be competitive for two years while you figure out the QB situation for the next five. Bulger or Hasselback would be giving Skelton eight to ten games to develop and seeing what you have for 2012.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not sure what people expect from the QB position in 2011. Is Orton clearly better than Derek Anderson and John Skelton? Will his draft pick trade compensation be lower than for Kolb or Palmer? The answer to both questions is clearly yes.

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

People would rather go with Kevin Kolb's middling potential for the next five years (and that's what you're committing to if you trade a first rounder for him then pay him $35 million guaranteed on an extension) than live with Palmer/Orton/Bulger for a season and see where we are after that.

Strange.

I was going with this post. KK for "next five years", paying him 35 million.

And Palmer/Orton/Bulger "for a season."

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

Good point.

Orton is not my 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th option, but he is an option. He would be an upgrade tho, no doubt about itl.

If that is who we end up with, at least it improves the team, but by how much is the question.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'm not sure what people expect from the QB position in 2011. Is Orton clearly better than Derek Anderson and John Skelton? Will his draft pick trade compensation be lower than for Kolb or Palmer? The answer to both questions is clearly yes.

Apparently anything is better than what the Cards already have, but nothing is good enough for the team to go get. I don't really understand it.

People would rather go with Kevin Kolb's middling potential for the next five years (and that's what you're committing to if you trade a first rounder for him then pay him $35 million guaranteed on an extension) than live with Palmer/Orton/Bulger for a season and see where we are after that.Strange.

If one trades for Palmer, we would be picking up the remaining four years of his 11M per year contract, from what I've read.

 

[Cardiac]

I was going with this post. KK for "next five years", paying him 35 million.

And Palmer/Orton/Bulger "for a season."

You are missing the word gauranteed. Kolb would make more per year then
7 mil.

K9 makes a ton of sense on this entire QB situation.

I hear you joeshmo, I have a nagging voice in the back of my head that Orton isn't the man. I have heard he is a good leader but won't get up on a soap box about it. I think the Broncos were painted into a corner when McDaniels drafted Tebow. Orton is gonna make some very good coin this year so maybe this time it's not so much Orton and more money/Tebow situation.

 

[Zeno]

What's interesting is why Kolb's draft pick compensation would be higher than Orton's (we of course don't know yet but just going by the rumors) when he hasn't proven as much on the field as of yet. I say give a 2nd rounder for someone who has proved more recently (orton, palmer), and only settle for someone who has proved themselves in the past but not recently if no picks are involved (Bulger, Hasselbeck). Better this than to give up anything more unless you are confident in that QB as franchise material. For a franchise QB I'd want someone with a more accomplished college background (for ex Brees and Manning who each had 4 solid yrs of college experience) than someone with an undistinguished college background and a few good NFL games mixed with some bad ones. (Kolb). Since that chance didnt come in the draft, I'm glad we didn't reach for someone like Gabbert/Newton and went for more immediate value. When the right long term prospect does come along, we will be glad we didn't overpay for someone who wasnt a long term solution to begin with.

Kolb was the starter in college since he was a true freshmen, was a Davy O'Brien finalist twice and a Maxwell award finalist 3 times...it's not like he had one undistinguished year playing football in college.

 

[Mulli]

You are missing the word gauranteed. Kolb would make more per year then
7 mil.

K9 makes a ton of sense on this entire QB situation.

I hear you joeshmo, I have a nagging voice in the back of my head that Orton isn't the man. I have heard he is a good leader but won't get up on a soap box about it. I think the Broncos were painted into a corner when McDaniels drafted Tebow. Orton is gonna make some very good coin this year so maybe this time it's not so much Orton and more money/Tebow situation.

Not my money.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If one trades for Palmer, we would be picking up the remaining four years of his 11M per year contract, from what I've read.

Sounds good.

Were do we sign ?