Not Déjà Vu

Harry

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Let’s start with the good news; this will not be 1999 all over again. After finally reaching the playoffs in 1998 the Cards let Lomas Brown, Larry Centers and Jamir Miller walk. In fact little effort was made to keep any of them. Admittedly I underestimated the scope of the disaster and watched the Cards deteriorate from a playoff team to a 6-10 pretender.

Surely any long-term Cardinal fan could not help but think of that series of events when shortly after the season’s end, Dansby, Warner and Rolle were lost to the team. The Boldin trade also aggravated the situation.
What I took out of the 1999 debacle was possibly a little different from what others saw. None of the departing players went on to Hall of Fame careers. Centers had 3 solid years then hung on for another couple. Brown and Miller got off to great starts with their new teams, but age and injury had Brown done in 4 years and Miller in 3.

Some people said the Cards lost heart when these players left, but there was still plenty of heart on the field. Others said the players’ resentment of Bidwill contributed to the downfall. Though the players no doubt had animosity towards him once they entered the white lines, I believe that no longer affected play.

What the 1999 team lacked was on-the-field leadership. Though much maligned, Lomas Brown drove the Cards’ line to succeed during his Arizona tenure. The line was better the day he stepped on the field and collapsed the day he left.

Miller was another vocal guy who led by word and deed. He was a sideline to sideline player.

Then there was Larry Centers. He left everything he had on the field in every game he played. You couldn’t be on a team with him and fail to play hard.

So what about 2010? Rhodes for Rolle is not an even exchange, but if Rhodes plays up to his ability, Rolle’s absence will not be greatly felt. Porter and Dansby will be an interesting story. They are two vastly different players. Does Porter have enough left to be an impact player? Will his vocal style of leadership replace Dansby quieter level of determination? The Cards lose a great deal of athleticism in the middle of the field, but hopefully gain a pass rush. By season’s end Darryl Washington may reduce the gap in the middle. As to Boldin’s departure, well his time had come. With Doucet on improving rapidly, Boldins’ playing minutes were likely to deteriorate just to protect him physically. He will have a big year in Baltimore, but likely wouldn’t have had as big a year here.

Aside from these losses the shakeup in the Cards’ offensive line is noteworthy. Gandy had a bad year, but his loss and subsequent Cardinal acquisitions have dramatically altered the line. Fortunately for the Cards, Faneca’s availability may actually lead to improvement at least in the running game. It certainly gives the line the kind of leadership that all quality teams need. If Keith and Brown can play, this line could actually improve. It may take a few games, but if the Cards can hang in the race, the line could be an asset down the stretch.

So that brings us to where the fate of the Cards will be determined. Matt Leinart has patiently waited his chance and this is it. I was surprised the Cards didn’t retain Warner to assist in this transition. Warner is not known for his patience, but he might be an entirely different guy in a different role. The Cards will not expect Leinart to win games. They will actually run the ball this season because they have to do so. They will be conservative in their passing game and try to let Leinart get his footing. Keep in mind that the strength of this unit is yards after the catch. If Leinart has the composure, this team will contend. Where they finish will likely depend on how good the Niners are. The Seahawks figure to be troublesome, but likely a year away from contending.

Much like the Cards, the Niners’ success will largely depend on quarterback play. Both teams figure to be in most games and likely the head to head games will be crucial. Unlike the 1999 Cardinals, this team will come to play. The question is can they play effectively enough to win.
 

Brighteyes

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The other thing we all forgot in 1999 was the terrible car accident our front line had coming home from Flagstaff. We lost Ernest Dye, Carl Simpson, and Lester Holmes.
 

imaCafan

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Don't know much about Rhodes. I knew his name before we got him, and since I don't know many players aside from Cardinals, I figured he must be a good player. To contrast, never ever heard of Paris Lenon! Anyway, it seemed to me Rolle was good when he made a play but they were few and far between. Aside from the occasional fumble recovery or INT he did little. It was just that when he did do something, it was a pick 6 and then nothing for 3-4 games. I might be wrong. Rhodes should be as good if not better....
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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2009: Rhodes 63 tackles 3 INTS 13 PDs 0 TDs

2009: Rolle 72 tackles 4 INTS 8 PDs 0 TDs

Past 2 Seasons:

Rhodes: 147 TACKLES 5 INTS 18 PDs 0TD

Rolle: 161 TACKLES 5 INTS 13 PDs 1TD


Stats fairly even and at worst it is a wash, but I still believe that Rhodes is better than Rolle in our defense and is much less prone to give up the big play.. I'll find the QB rating vs. each player last season and amend this post...
 

BigRedArk

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2009: Rhodes 63 tackles 3 INTS 13 PDs 0 TDs

2009: Rolle 72 tackles 4 INTS 8 PDs 0 TDs

Past 2 Seasons:

Rhodes: 147 TACKLES 5 INTS 18 PDs 0TD

Rolle: 161 TACKLES 5 INTS 13 PDs 1TD


Stats fairly even and at worst it is a wash, but I still believe that Rhodes is better than Rolle in our defense and is much less prone to give up the big play.. I'll find the QB rating vs. each player last season and amend this post...

Are those regular season stats or do they include playoffs as well? If they are regular season only then give Rolle 1 more VERY important TD. The one to start the second half of the playoff game against the Falcons.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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Are those regular season stats or do they include playoffs as well? If they are regular season only then give Rolle 1 more VERY important TD. The one to start the second half of the playoff game against the Falcons.
regular season only...
 

Arizona's Finest

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Are those regular season stats or do they include playoffs as well? If they are regular season only then give Rolle 1 more VERY important TD. The one to start the second half of the playoff game against the Falcons.

Actually Rhodes played his best ball at the end of the season and in the playoffs last year (ask a Jets fan, as the stats dont tell the whole story) so he played best when it mattered most too.

Bottom line - Rolle has better upside, but Rhodes is the more polished player and MUCH better against the pass. Everyone forgets now but we are one Aaron Rodgers sllllllight over throw from fans throwing a parade on Rolle's way out of town and him likely being a lot lighter in the pocket. It truly is a game of inches.

Conversely if we make this trade after 2008, before Rex Ryan came in and changed the defense completely, everyone takes Rhodes 10 times out 10 over Rolle.

Guess we will see this year. IMO Kenny Phillips might make Rolle look a lot better then he actually is as he is one of the best young secondary players I had seen in awhile.

But I think Wilson is going to help shore up the weaknesses in Rhodes game as well. My bet is with the changes we made create less turnovers but finish higher in overall defense and our more consistent.

And the trade of Rhodes for Rolle will play a big part in that.
 

Buckybird

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Bottom line - Rolle has better upside, but Rhodes is the more polished player and MUCH better against the pass. Everyone forgets now but we are one Aaron Rodgers sllllllight over throw from fans throwing a parade on Rolle's way out of town and him likely being a lot lighter in the pocket. It truly is a game of inches.

well said AF
 

seesred

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Harry IMO the only thing you missed, is that the coaching then to now is night and day. Whiz is amazing when it comes to picking players that can come in and help. His coaching staff will hold itself up against almost all in the NFL. You just can't compare the clip board hugger to Whiz.

GBR
40
 

RugbyMuffin

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Bottom line - Rolle has better upside, but Rhodes is the more polished player and MUCH better against the pass.

Rolle is going into his 6th year in the league, and we are still talking about upside ?

He was a bust at CB who stuggled to see the field, and was playing safety under a 6th overall pick CORNERBACK contract.

He has had 3 to 4 years to learn the safety position, and while he is a great athelete, no doubt, he is far from a great football player at his position.

With Rolle, he is who he is at this point, I would be surprised if we have not seen his full potential already.

Not to mention he seems to get dinged easily, and is about to move to the more physical free safety position.
 

PACardsFan

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Harry IMO the only thing you missed, is that the coaching then to now is night and day. Whiz is amazing when it comes to picking players that can come in and help. His coaching staff will hold itself up against almost all in the NFL. You just can't compare the clip board hugger to Whiz.

GBR
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Harry, can we please stop making comparisons to the 98-99 Cardinals. The 98 Cardinals were a very average team, stayed healthy & played the EASIEST schedule that I can ever remember. The 99 Cardinals had a tougher schedule & did incur injuries. BOTH teams were average at best, as was their entire coaching staff. NONE of the guys they let go would have put the 99 team back in the playoffs.

Back to the current discussion. Yes, we will miss Dansby & Rolle's athleticism. But, say what you want, both of them were soft players & Rolle couldn't cover me. If used properly, Dansby will have a few more good seasons, but Rolle will be a major bust in NY. Whiz is far & away the best coach this franchise has ever seen & I've been watching them since the early 60's. Until proven otherwise, I'll trust the decisions he's a part of.
 

Garthshort

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Rugby, the only thing I'll say in Rolle's defense is that he's only played Safety for two years (I believe), so I would expect improvement as he becomes more experienced at the position. Whether he has the smarts/instincts to play FS at a high level, I have no idea.
 

TJ

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Rolle is going into his 6th year in the league, and we are still talking about upside ?

He was a bust at CB who stuggled to see the field, and was playing safety under a 6th overall pick CORNERBACK contract.

He has had 3 to 4 years to learn the safety position, and while he is a great athelete, no doubt, he is far from a great football player at his position.

With Rolle, he is who he is at this point, I would be surprised if we have not seen his full potential already.

Not to mention he seems to get dinged easily, and is about to move to the more physical free safety position.

I consider Antron an "opportunistic" safety. By that I mean he is always looking for the big play and would sacrifice simple coverage just to try and get a pick 6. Granted once he got the ball he was very dangerous, he was a liability in coverage.

I'm not sad to see him gone. I am happy we have someone here in Rhodes who brings a fresh attitude and a chip on his shoulder.

Ohh and BTW. Rolle was picked 8th in 2005. The ever so impressive Pacman Jones was picked #6. At lease we didnt get stuck with that nightmare
 

BACH

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Bottom line - Rolle has better upside, but Rhodes is the more polished player and MUCH better against the pass. Everyone forgets now but we are one Aaron Rodgers sllllllight over throw from fans throwing a parade on Rolle's way out of town and him likely being a lot lighter in the pocket. It truly is a game of inches.
I agree.

Rhodes is the better Free Safety. Rolle is a bigger playmaker.
 

Duckjake

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The most important thing is that Rolle left and the Cards didn't have to use a high draft pick just to have someone to play the position. Instead they use late round picks, that probably wouldn't produce a starter anyway, to get a veteran player to fill the void.
 
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The most important thing is that Rolle left and the Cards didn't have to use a high draft pick just to have someone to play the position. Instead they use late round picks, that probably wouldn't produce a starter anyway, to get a veteran player to fill the void.
Bingo!! Difference between then and now in a nutshell. :raccoon:
 

Mulli

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Harry, can we please stop making comparisons to the 98-99 Cardinals. The 98 Cardinals were a very average team, stayed healthy & played the EASIEST schedule that I can ever remember. The 99 Cardinals had a tougher schedule & did incur injuries. BOTH teams were average at best, as was their entire coaching staff. NONE of the guys they let go would have put the 99 team back in the playoffs.

Back to the current discussion. Yes, we will miss Dansby & Rolle's athleticism. But, say what you want, both of them were soft players & Rolle couldn't cover me. If used properly, Dansby will have a few more good seasons, but Rolle will be a major bust in NY. Whiz is far & away the best coach this franchise has ever seen & I've been watching them since the early 60's. Until proven otherwise, I'll trust the decisions he's a part of.
Yup.
 

chickenhead

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The most important thing is that Rolle left and the Cards didn't have to use a high draft pick just to have someone to play the position. Instead they use late round picks, that probably wouldn't produce a starter anyway, to get a veteran player to fill the void.

+2

The Giants made Rolle the highest paid safety in league history, and did so because of his highlight reel, not just because of his stats. Considering that it seems like we were losing him no matter what, I think replacing him with a veteran who ended last season well is great. I'm going to miss the big plays as much as anyone, but I think Rhodes might be a better fit in a Whiz defense, the same way that a more balanced run/pass offense will be.
 

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