No option to trade down, so would you go Will Anderson or Jalen Carter?

dreamcastrocks

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my rationale for lower ceiling: Anderson wins with power and hand use and very good, but not great speed / bend around the edge

As a result, i could imagine a guy who gets 8 -10 sacks a year, but not 14-16

In fairness ... a name that just got posted that i think is a good comp: Micah Parsons. Same kinda approach to pass rush and i think we would all be thrilled if the Cards got that...
Micah Parson is probably a top 3 defender at any position in the league. If that is his comp, that is one hell of a ceiling.
i also dont do this for a living.......
99% of us don't. :D
 

Chopper0080

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Will Anderson.

No one should really need a list for this debate. The gap in question isn't between Anderson and Carter. It is the gap between Carter and Bresse/Quentin Johnson. Or at least it is for me.
 

football karma

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Micah Parson is probably a top 3 defender at any position in the league. If that is his comp, that is one hell of a ceiling.
hence the "in fairness" qualifier. Its made me reconsider my first post

not reconsidered: I think Anderson is a far safer pick. Assuming reasonable health -- his floor is a tough as nails edge vs the run, disrupter on the edge, and 9 sacks a year.

being the #3 pick overall -- people will point to the 9 sacks and be disappointed
 

Solar7

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No, he was a DE. Dockett was a stud DT. They worked off of one another though & we haven't had a DL even close to that since.
Calais and Dockett didn't overlap all that long, only 5 seasons, and both played 3-4 DE, which Dockett notoriously hated. In 2008, when Calais was drafted, we were still playing Dockett as more of a 4-3 Under DT, but it didn't last when Pendergast left after the Super Bowl.
 

SteveKeimFan

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Campbell could play every position.

Should have add a Jones/Campbell combo for 5 years but no because Keim.
 
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DVontel

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Will Anderson.

No one should really need a list for this debate. The gap in question isn't between Anderson and Carter. It is the gap between Carter and Bresse/Quentin Johnson. Or at least it is for me.
lol, it definitely is for you.

The gap between Anderson & Carter might be big(I would go Anderson rather easily btw), but the gap between Carter & Breese/Johnston is astronomical.
 

Buckybird

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Anderson or Myles Murphy.

Imo the only way Carter becomes a difference maker is if he has the right DC to motivate him. Otherwise he will be solid at best. Picking in the top 5 he better be special
 

Harry

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Maybe someone (like @Harry) can do us a nice strengths and weaknesses list ;). For me I just want us to have picked the person that when they "re-do" the draft again in a few years our guy is the clear number 1 pick.

Both these players share many positive traits. Their deficiencies are a matter of degree. That is, they’re not major flaws but just areas of improvement. Amazingly this means neither has reached their ceiling. Either player would be a huge addition to the Cards’ defense. I prefer Carter because DTs with his skill set are rare. Edges like Anderson come along a little more often. I also believe there are solid Edges later in this draft. It would be hard to find an impact DT beyond round 1.

Carter
PLUSSES
Speed
Agility
Strength to anchor
Good hands
Violent punch
Excellent motor
Versatility, can penetrate or anchor
Lots of rush moves
Diagnoses plays well
Can play anywhere on line

MINUSES
Can’t always shed blocks well
Can be frustrated by double-teams
Needs to improve use of leverage
Can get overanxious, ending up off balance
Sometimes fails to keep his feet moving

Anderson
PLUSSES
Speed
Agility
Very strong hands
Great change of direction
Terrific motor & drive
Explosive when impacting an opponent
Decent bend
Takes excellent angles
Strength to anchor, but can get blown up
Polished rush moves
Quick first step
Can cover some but raw

MINUSES
Can’t always shed blocks well
Needs to improve use of leverage
Can’t always shed blocks well
Needs to improve use of leverage
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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We didn’t stupidly let him go the Jags gave him a ridiculous contract we would of been stupid to match it
Like 30 million total, I hated to see him go but that price was too high. One could say his durability through the years would've been worth it, considering we had a bozo GM drafting to replace him. 30 million though at that time was probably about the same as 80 million today & seemed like a steep price to pay for a DE. Hindsight is 20/20 though, if we only had the book from the movie "Back to the Future" to see how things turn out lol?
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Both these players share many positive traits. Their deficiencies are a matter of degree. That is, they’re not major flaws but just areas of improvement. Amazingly this means neither has reached their ceiling. Either player would be a huge addition to the Cards’ defense. I prefer Carter because DTs with his skill set are rare. Edges like Anderson come along a little more often. I also believe there are solid Edges later in this draft. It would be hard to find an impact DT beyond round 1.

Carter
PLUSSES
Speed
Agility
Strength to anchor
Good hands
Violent punch
Excellent motor
Versatility, can penetrate or anchor
Lots of rush moves
Diagnoses plays well
Can play anywhere on line

MINUSES
Can’t always shed blocks well
Can be frustrated by double-teams
Needs to improve use of leverage
Can get overanxious, ending up off balance
Sometimes fails to keep his feet moving

Anderson
PLUSSES
Speed
Agility
Very strong hands
Great change of direction
Terrific motor & drive
Explosive when impacting an opponent
Decent bend
Takes excellent angles
Strength to anchor, but can get blown up
Polished rush moves
Quick first step
Can cover some but raw

MINUSES
Can’t always shed blocks well
Needs to improve use of leverage
Can’t always shed blocks well
Needs to improve use of leverage
I'm with you on this Harry, I feel like Carter is the best way to go. Pocket pushing DT's that require double team blocks hold more value & like you said, edge speed rushers come along more frequently & in later rounds than dominant DT's do. Like I said in this thread when it started this morning, Thomas & Sanders showed promise to end the season, Carter could free them up by requiring double teams. I'm not saying both the rookies are the answer on the edge but with a dominant DT it's a good start in building a solid DL. To me, Thomas started showing some pass rushing moves to end the season that he learned from JJ & Sanders has a good first step. The OL needs help also but FA could help in that regard, especially at Center. We need to start in the middle of both lines imo.
 

Krangodnzr

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I'm with you on this Harry, I feel like Carter is the best way to go. Pocket pushing DT's that require double team blocks hold more value & like you said, edge speed rushers come along more frequently & in later rounds than dominant DT's do. Like I said in this thread when it started this morning, Thomas & Sanders showed promise to end the season, Carter could free them up by requiring double teams. I'm not saying both the rookies are the answer on the edge but with a dominant DT it's a good start in building a solid DL. To me, Thomas started showing some pass rushing moves to end the season that he learned from JJ & Sanders has a good first step. The OL needs help also but FA could help in that regard, especially at Center. We need to start in the middle of both lines imo.
This would be true if DTs we're actually more impactful than Edge players...they aren't.

My concern about Carter is that with all the pretty plays, he still only had 16 tackles on the year, 7 of which were for a loss, and 3 sacks. Look up Aaron Donald's numbers for comparison.
 

PACardsFan

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I recently watched a video where someone did an analysis of each player & then arrived at who he would choose if he was making a top 5 decision.
Anderson strengths:
-tremendous effort
-best in a 3-4, but can hold up in a 4-3
-extremely intelligent player
-elite 0-5 yd explosion
-elite hands
-elite strength

Anderson weaknesses (by degree of course)
-does miss tackles in the backfield
-doesn’t have elite balance or bend. Cannot be compared to Von Miller for this reason alone.

Carter Strengths
-elite speed off the ball for a DT
-gets held on every play. Will require a double team most of the time.
-elite pad level positioning
- “He’ll make their Center look like he’s never played before
Weaknesses:
-because of his elite explosion, he sometimes loses his balance & ends up on the ground.
-Is not Jordan Davis good against run
-More like Quinnen Williams in that his stamina will only allow him to be on the field less than 70% of the plays.

He chose Carter by saying that Carter just continues to improve and will continue to get better. He thought Carter is a “better lump of clay” for DC’s to develop.

I personally lean towards Anderson, but would be happy with either one.
 

Chris_Sanders

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I recently watched a video where someone did an analysis of each player & then arrived at who he would choose if he was making a top 5 decision.
Anderson strengths:
-tremendous effort
-best in a 3-4, but can hold up in a 4-3
-extremely intelligent player
-elite 0-5 yd explosion
-elite hands
-elite strength

Anderson weaknesses (by degree of course)
-does miss tackles in the backfield
-doesn’t have elite balance or bend. Cannot be compared to Von Miller for this reason alone.

Carter Strengths
-elite speed off the ball for a DT
-gets held on every play. Will require a double team most of the time.
-elite pad level positioning
- “He’ll make their Center look like he’s never played before
Weaknesses:
-because of his elite explosion, he sometimes loses his balance & ends up on the ground.
-Is not Jordan Davis good against run
-More like Quinnen Williams in that his stamina will only allow him to be on the field less than 70% of the plays.

He chose Carter by saying that Carter just continues to improve and will continue to get better. He thought Carter is a “better lump of clay” for DC’s to develop.

I personally lean towards Anderson, but would be happy with either one.

Really fair
 

dreamcastrocks

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I recently watched a video where someone did an analysis of each player & then arrived at who he would choose if he was making a top 5 decision.
Anderson strengths:
-tremendous effort
-best in a 3-4, but can hold up in a 4-3
-extremely intelligent player
-elite 0-5 yd explosion
-elite hands
-elite strength

Anderson weaknesses (by degree of course)
-does miss tackles in the backfield
-doesn’t have elite balance or bend. Cannot be compared to Von Miller for this reason alone.

Carter Strengths
-elite speed off the ball for a DT
-gets held on every play. Will require a double team most of the time.
-elite pad level positioning
- “He’ll make their Center look like he’s never played before
Weaknesses:
-because of his elite explosion, he sometimes loses his balance & ends up on the ground.
-Is not Jordan Davis good against run
-More like Quinnen Williams in that his stamina will only allow him to be on the field less than 70% of the plays.

He chose Carter by saying that Carter just continues to improve and will continue to get better. He thought Carter is a “better lump of clay” for DC’s to develop.

I personally lean towards Anderson, but would be happy with either one.
Do have a link to that video? I'd like to watch it.
 

Zalixar

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Hopefully we can trade down and nail one of these guys. Need that QB stock to rise.

I'll manage my expectations though. Not sure what else to look forward to with this team.
 

oaken1

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Hopefully we can trade down and nail one of these guys. Need that QB stock to rise.

I'll manage my expectations though. Not sure what else to look forward to with this team.
if they are already talking about 2 quarterbacks as top 5 picks in January...
by april it will be 4...some small school kid gonna come out of nowhere
 

Stout

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This would be true if DTs we're actually more impactful than Edge players...they aren't.

My concern about Carter is that with all the pretty plays, he still only had 16 tackles on the year, 7 of which were for a loss, and 3 sacks. Look up Aaron Donald's numbers for comparison.
This. The pick is Anderson all the way.
 
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