My take on Kyler, Kliff and Keim

football karma

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Person I know thats close to Kyler's dad said there's a concern.

I've stayed outta defending Kyler as much cause he's been paid. Gotta get it done. However, his dad is pretty defiant that their current training/prep regime isnt the problem or a problem. Kyler is under his thumb and his dad isnt listening to anybody.

Maybe it isnt a problem. However, the fact they arent considering everything is a concern.
question: is that a current POV, or, one from this offseason

i think that matters. One could still make the case this past offseason that Kylers arrow was still pointing up

not so much now
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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You know your team is really screwed up when no one can tell what in particular to point the finger at. You might as well shoot an arrow into the air blindfolded and just blame whoever it hits. Even though at times, especially as the draft nears, we all seem to narrow down that area we need most to get us over the top. But in actuality, as every season progresses and the whole thing seems to come apart, we are pretty much split evenly on who and what's to blame. That surely is a sign that the team as a whole is a total mess. And the worst thing about that is we are the Cardinals, whose motto should be, "Wash, rinse, and repeat!" We seem to always be in a state of flux to the point that it would take at least 1.21 gigawatts of power to even begin to address our problems. And the only place I know of where that many gigawatts resides is in the head of Bill Belichick.
 
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On thing regarding Kliff that I wonder (and this isn't to absolve him at all), what if his offensive scheme is so bland and stagnant because that is the only scheme Kyler can mentally run? What if the scheme doesn't evolve because Kyler can't handle the evolution? None of that absolves Kliff of being the one who is in charge of getting Kyler to that level, but does that have more validity as we see Kyler regress while in the most simple of schemes?
Distinct possibility.
 

dreamcastrocks

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You know your team is really screwed up when no one can tell what in particular to point the finger at. You might as well shoot an arrow into the air blindfolded and just blame whoever it hits. Even though at times, especially as the draft nears, we all seem to narrow down that area we need most to get us over the top. But in actuality, as every season progresses and the whole thing seems to come apart, we are pretty much split evenly on who and what's to blame. That surely is a sign that the team as a whole is a total mess. And the worst thing about that is we are the Cardinals, whose motto should be, "Wash, rinse, and repeat!" We seem to always be in a state of flux to the point that it would take at least 1.21 gigawatts of power to even begin to address our problems. And the only place I know of where that many gigawatts resides is in the head of Bill Belichick.
I can. Keim. It has been Keim for the past 5 years at least.
 

JD Robertson

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The whole situation between Kyler and his dad reminds me of the situation the baseball Cardinals had with Colby Rasmus. His dad was his hitting coach his whole life and when he got to the big leagues he wouldn't listen to the coaches. It was reported that he would call his dad to fix any issues with his swing.
 

Russ Smith

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I was thinking that, too. Maybe the idea is that we just simplified everything down to the bare bones.

The point of the Air Raid is that it's simple enough to install with "student athletes" whose time on the field and in the classroom is limited by rules.

That and it's designed to be easier to recruit to because most places that run it don't have Alabama type budgets. Much like the run and shoot the idea was you don't need to get a ton of 5 star recruits, especially OL, because the scheme gets the ball out quickly.

And it works well enough in college but you get to the NFL and the track record isn't great. We were really good for 10 games last year when we had just about every skill position guy healthy, but as soon as D Hop went down that all fell apart.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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On thing regarding Kliff that I wonder (and this isn't to absolve him at all), what if his offensive scheme is so bland and stagnant because that is the only scheme Kyler can mentally run? What if the scheme doesn't evolve because Kyler can't handle the evolution? None of that absolves Kliff of being the one who is in charge of getting Kyler to that level, but does that have more validity as we see Kyler regress while in the most simple of schemes?
It’s possible but it’s also 100% conjecture.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Person I know thats close to Kyler's dad said there's a concern.

I've stayed outta defending Kyler as much cause he's been paid. Gotta get it done. However, his dad is pretty defiant that their current training/prep regime isnt the problem or a problem. Kyler is under his thumb and his dad isnt listening to anybody.

Maybe it isnt a problem. However, the fact they arent considering everything is a concern.
I have no idea what this entire post means.
 

AZCB34

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The dad thing makes me lose my stuff every time I hear it because it is so pathetic and ridiculous.
Assuming it is true, no new coach coming is going to be able to make much difference with Kyler if he just goes back to daddy for everything
 

GatorAZ

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Person I know thats close to Kyler's dad said there's a concern.

I've stayed outta defending Kyler as much cause he's been paid. Gotta get it done. However, his dad is pretty defiant that their current training/prep regime isnt the problem or a problem. Kyler is under his thumb and his dad isnt listening to anybody.

Maybe it isnt a problem. However, the fact they arent considering everything is a concern.
Dads of Texas high school QB’s are a little weird though.
.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Arz101

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I will bite. What is Kyler's wonderlic score? Anyone?
 

Crimson Warrior

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I’ll give a summary about each of the 3 & where I stand:


Kyler - He looks broken. This is not what you want to see from a QB that just signed a huge extension. Does he seem content where he’s at? That could be possible. Could he be un-coachable? That also could be possible. Could he be toxic as well? There are signs showing he could be. However, we will never know until we bring a different regime that will get a better feel when it comes to him. If he stays like this with a new regime, then obviously, you try to trade him to the highest bidder. I do believe his dad plays a part in his personality than some would believe. From his arrogance to his God-like personality. You look up information about Jalen Hurts’ dad & see the person he has molded Jalen to be. Also helps having Nick Saban as a boss. Kyler needs to be checked. Lincoln Riley & Kliff Kingsbury are too laid-back to do such a thing. I’m not saying be a damn drill sergeant, but have some heart-to-heart, 1 to 1 conversation because I assuming they don’t even do that. It’s up to Kyler to change his way. Can’t hood your hand.

Kliff - Personality-wise, I actually like Kliff. He gives all the credit to the players & coaching staff. Unlike Arians, he takes blame & just doesn’t throw it all on his players. However, he is not the HC Arians was. It’s clear that he appears to not be the man for the job. From the constant game management errors, to the lack of pre-snap motion, to being fixated not moving WRs around constantly. You listen to a good amount of well-informed podcasts that talk about Kliff Kingsbury & points out these same exact flaws. You hear how they constantly talk about his playbook & how he runs mesh way too many times & has not diversified his passing game over the years. You go back & look at the evidence of QBs that played with Kliff, play better once they left him. How do you not give Dortch any PT on offense despite being the most consistent weapon for the early quarter of the season? Because Rondale came back? You can make them both work! He might get plucked by Shanahan or McVay, but it’s clear he’s just not cut out for it anymore.

Keim - Easily the biggest cancer when it comes to the organization. From the constant draft misses to idiotic FA signings. He has no clue what positional value is & runs a team like it’s 1994. Really troubling that him & the coaching staff doesn’t see eye-to-eye like they should. Instances like declaring outright that Zaven will be starting from his rookie year & to the coaching staff not trusting a kicker to make FGs. Not using premium picks on the trenches where that’s an area we have lacked big time while Keim has been the GM. We gotta remember Keim fielded one of the worst offenses in league history & had the number 1 overall pick before Kliff & Kyler even got here. He’s reactionary & never has a plan. Can’t even tell what the vision of this team is & haven’t been able to for a while. I honestly believe no matter who the HC & QB are, we will never be a consistent contender. Not under Keim. If you can’t see eye-to-eye with numerous HCs over the years, then what’s the point of you being GM? The day Keim gets fired will be a day a dark cloud will be gone from the franchise, but Bidwill could be that dark cloud so who knows?


That’s just my input on all 3. Just a lot of dysfunction & frustration.

Lot of good content, thanks @DVontel!

Really the only thing I'd like to add to this and all of the other "get-the-pitchforks-and-torches!!" discussions currently raging across this forum, is that in my heart of hearts, I think it's too early to push the panic button, and/or to cast final judgement on any one of the Big Three (even Keim!).

I could be wrong, but I think it's definitely possible that the leaders get this thing turned around, even though this may not manifest itself until next season. But there could be a lot of pain in store for us before this happens guys and gals, so buckle up. :)
 
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SissyBoyFloyd

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Speaking of Keim, How should this example of drafting the right players make us feel? This was taken from the Legit Football Site's email message I get from them daily.

Patriots rookie Jack Jones is PFF’s highest-rated cornerback​
Details: Jones, a fourth-round pick out of Arizona State, has a 90.5 overall grade and a 91.7 coverage grade.

Wow: Through six games, Jones has 2 interceptions (one of them a pick-six off Aaron Rodgers), 4 pass deflections, and a forced fumble.​
  • According to Pro-Football-Reference, quarterbacks have a 33.7 passer rating and a 45.8% completion rate when targeting Jones in coverage.
A+ Class: Jones doesn’t appear to be the only gem in the Patriots’ rookie class — first-round LG Cole Strange has been a solid starter, third-round CB Marcus Jones has impressed in coverage and as a returner, and fourth-round QB Bailey Zappe has 2-0 record as the starter.​
  • Second-round WR Tyquan Thornton is starting to emerge as well — the speedster scored twice in the Patriots’ Week 6 victory over the Browns.
 

Syracusecards

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It’s pretty clear and there have been rumblings outside of this little inside tidbit. That Kyler only listens to his dad and his dad’s advice???
Get Britney Spears on the phone ASAP!
 

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