My larger perspective on some of these low-level signings

BritCard

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Or it will be because they think they're the smartest people in the room. They'll convince themselves of all the things you posted, or something similar, but that won't make any of it true. I first hope Monti doesn't trade back, then hope to holy hell that it goes against script and turns out to be a good idea or at least kind of worth it.

I hope they think they are the smartest people in the room. They are the only people in the room.

Got to trust the thousands of hours of scouting or what's the point? Certainly need to trust it more than the opinion of a bunch of fans on a forum.
 

Stout

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I hope they think they are the smartest people in the room. They are the only people in the room.

Got to trust the thousands of hours of scouting or what's the point? Certainly need to trust it more than the opinion of a bunch of fans on a forum.
Oh, sad burn try lol Also, sad disingenuous snark, as everyone who talked about Keim that way meant the NFL when they sad "the room." In other words, @BritCard thinks we should stop complaining and have complete blind faith in the FO. Any who don't like passing on Anderson, if it happens, should just shut up.

@BritCard, I appreciate the consistency if nothing else, man :thumbup:
 

Cbus cardsfan

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They're not hoping they turn out any more than they are Anderson.

We all think Anderson is a sure thing. But we all thought Chase Young was a sure thing too and he's been quite meh. At the end of the day we don't know.

If they do trade back it will be because tens of thousands of man hours lead them to believe that Gonzalez at #7 or Whoever at #11 is as sure a thing as Anderson at #3. It will be because their scouting and film study tells them that player is great and they think they can get him further back and pick up picks.
I don't agree with that thinking when it comes to drafting. The goal is to acquire talent, high end talent. No team goes into drafting someone thinking they are going to be meh. Sure, it happens but you don't base your draft/evaluations on that. There's a reason Anderson has been rated the top PROSPECT, for 2 years. That kind of thinking is how you pass on Terell Suggs to draft Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson. I know there are examples of it working out the other way too. But you don't base your draft on that thinking. Give me the most talented guy with the highest ceiling every time.

I get what you're saying if there were 2 guys evenly rated, then I can see trading back to acquire picks. But there is no player rated on Anderson's level in this draft. I just hope the Cards don't talk themselves into thinking there is, because it happens. Just look at last year with Walker going over Hutchinson. Hell, this year, there is talk of Richardson going over Stroud or Young.

Like Stout said, some guys want to think they're the smartest in the room/league and go off script to get "their guy". Obviously, nothing is exact and guys do/don't work out, but the players coming into the draft are rated where they are for a reason.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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As for Keim talk, I seem to remember the Cards drafts always seeming to get high grades in the post draft analyses.

His problem was it seemed like he deferred to his HC's preferences. I get that and it wasn't too bad when you had an experienced staff like Arians's and had an idea of who can/can't play. But his demise was listening to KK, who had no clue of who could play. That's how you get guys like Rondale Moore and Andy Isabella in round 2 or take 3-4 WR's in one draft and none could play.
 

Snakester

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I’ve been consistent that Kyler Murray is an immensely talented player. I don’t know if he can win a Super Bowl but he’s better than half the QBs in the league.

You lose 12 games with Davis Mills at QB.
Kyler Murray has the talent, his problem is in his head. I’ve always said the make up of a good QB is half talent and half smarts. Kyler just needs to get his head right and the sky is the limit for him.
 

az jam

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Kyler Murray has the talent, his problem is in his head. I’ve always said the make up of a good QB is half talent and half smarts. Kyler just needs to get his head right and the sky is the limit for him.
Agree, I also feel that KK was the wrong coach for him. I think Kyler lost respect for him. It will be interesting to see how he responds with an entire new coaching staff.
 

BirdGangThing

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They're not hoping they turn out any more than they are Anderson.

We all think Anderson is a sure thing. But we all thought Chase Young was a sure thing too and he's been quite meh. At the end of the day we don't know.

If they do trade back it will be because tens of thousands of man hours lead them to believe that Gonzalez at #7 or Whoever at #11 is as sure a thing as Anderson at #3. It will be because their scouting and film study tells them that player is great and they think they can get him further back and pick up picks.
lol now you're going to fling your poop at Anderson?
 

Krangodnzr

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I don't agree with that thinking when it comes to drafting. The goal is to acquire talent, high end talent. No team goes into drafting someone thinking they are going to be meh. Sure, it happens but you don't base your draft/evaluations on that. There's a reason Anderson has been rated the top PROSPECT, for 2 years. That kind of thinking is how you pass on Terell Suggs to draft Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson. I know there are examples of it working out the other way too. But you don't base your draft on that thinking. Give me the most talented guy with the highest ceiling every time.

I get what you're saying if there were 2 guys evenly rated, then I can see trading back to acquire picks. But there is no player rated on Anderson's level in this draft. I just hope the Cards don't talk themselves into thinking there is, because it happens. Just look at last year with Walker going over Hutchinson. Hell, this year, there is talk of Richardson going over Stroud or Young.

Like Stout said, some guys want to think they're the smartest in the room/league and go off script to get "their guy". Obviously, nothing is exact and guys do/don't work out, but the players coming into the draft are rated where they are for a reason.
Paralysis by analysis.

Stop thinking about it. Take Anderson Jr.

He's a gamewrecker, something the Cardinals haven't had for awhile now.
 

BritCard

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Oh, sad burn try lol Also, sad disingenuous snark, as everyone who talked about Keim that way meant the NFL when they sad "the room." In other words, @BritCard thinks we should stop complaining and have complete blind faith in the FO. Any who don't like passing on Anderson, if it happens, should just shut up.

@BritCard, I appreciate the consistency if nothing else, man :thumbup:

Not saying that at all. Simply stating a fact.

At the end of the day we can all have opinions but we have to trust that several experts know better.
 

Snakester

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Agree, I also feel that KK was the wrong coach for him. I think Kyler lost respect for him. It will be interesting to see how he responds with an entire new coaching staff.
It does look that way. If this coaching staff can get his head right and turn him into a leader of men we just might have our quarterback of the future.
 

Krangodnzr

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It does look that way. If this coaching staff can get his head right and turn him into a leader of men we just might have our quarterback of the future.
I expect Murray to continue to grow regardless of what the coaching staff does.

Let's all consider how much we have grown since the advent of ASFN. I joined this site as a wet behind-the-ear kid, and now I'm a middle-aged man about to retire from the US Army in a few years. Murray is going down the same path. From all indicators, he was a relatively insulated kid when he cam into the league. The adversity he has faced will mature him. Most people learn from what he has been through.
 
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Solar7

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I expect Murray to continue to grow regardless of what the coaching staff does.

Let's all consider how much we have grown since the advent of ASFN. I joined this site as a wet behind-the-ear kid, and now I'm a middle-aged man about to retire from the US Army in a few years. Murray is going down the same path. From all indicators, he was a relatively insulated kid when he cam into the league. The adversity he has faced will mature him. Most people learn from what he has been through.
This gets even more intense when you consider that some people, like myself, even came over here from AZProSports back in the day, and some before that were on AOL's Cards Corner.

I'm not even sure I was in high school when I joined that first site, and I couldn't even drive when I joined this one... I'm now 36.
 

kerouac9

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I expect Murray to continue to grow regardless of what the coaching staff does.

Let's all consider how much we have grown since the advent of ASFN. I joined this site as a wet behind-the-ear kid, and now I'm a middle-aged man about to retire from the US Army in a few years. Murray is going down the same path. From all indicators, he was a relatively insulated kid when he cam into the league. The adversity he has faced will mature him. Most people learn from what he has been through.
Good for him personally but I’m not willing to wait 10 years for him to become more of a douche like I’ve seen with you.

:sarcasm:
 

Krangodnzr

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This gets even more intense when you consider that some people, like myself, even came over here from AZProSports back in the day, and some before that were on AOL's Cards Corner.

I'm not even sure I was in high school when I joined that first site, and I couldn't even drive when I joined this one... I'm now 36.
I was on both. I remember seeing the post on AzProSports leading everyone here.

I was less active when joined the Army and then was stationed in Deutschland (early 05 - beginning of 09).
 

Chopper0080

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People are sure putting a ton of faith that Monti is going to "hit" on a high % of draft picks and then somehow convince free agents to come play for a notoriously cheap owner.

While history shows that maybe he'll hit on 40% of his draft picks and Bidwill is not going to change his ways in free agency because they have been really bad in that department as well.

As much as I dislike Cowherd, I had to agree with him. The other day on his radio show, he got into a discussion about Lamar and Kyler. He was actually defending Kyler. He said Lamar has been playing for the "gold standard" of franchises while Murray has been playing for a tire fire of a franchise.
I agree that the projected hit rate on draft picks by Monti is becoming delusional. I mean maybe if you strip the roster down enough they can't help but get starts, but that doesn't make them good. Every year teams draft guys to come in, make an impact, and for many, it doesn't work out.
 

Stout

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I agree that the projected hit rate on draft picks by Monti is becoming delusional. I mean maybe if you strip the roster down enough they can't help but get starts, but that doesn't make them good. Every year teams draft guys to come in, make an impact, and for many, it doesn't work out.
Plus even a 40% hit rate is being incredibly unrealistic.
 

Goldfield

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I was on both. I remember seeing the post on AzProSports leading everyone here.

I was less active when joined the Army and then was stationed in Deutschland (early 05 - beginning of 09).
Same
 

Krangodnzr

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I agree that the projected hit rate on draft picks by Monti is becoming delusional. I mean maybe if you strip the roster down enough they can't help but get starts, but that doesn't make them good. Every year teams draft guys to come in, make an impact, and for many, it doesn't work out.
An interesting exercise is to jump on Wikipedia and look at prior drafts from 4-5 years ago.

The vast majority aren't even on NFL rosters. It's startling how few players actually stick.
 

Chopper0080

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An interesting exercise is to jump on Wikipedia and look at prior drafts from 4-5 years ago.

The vast majority aren't even on NFL rosters. It's startling how few players actually stick.
I know you know this but the average NFL career is 3 years. This is why trying to build exclusively through the draft is so ignorant and arrogant.
 

Krangodnzr

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I know you know this but the average NFL career is 3 years. This is why trying to build exclusively through the draft is so ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah it has to be a combination. For all the criticism of Keim, he was actually effective at hitting on all the value signings, but his draft miss rate and early free agency misses were his undoing.
 
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