My larger perspective on some of these low-level signings

BritCard

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Hopium is free. It's not a criticism, either. I wish I could have blind faith in a regime I had no idea would actually be any good. It would make supporting this team a lot easier. I'm actually a bit jealous.

If you had any idea they would be good it wouldn't be blind faith :)
 
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Solar7

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Yea, we’ll see.

I’m already wanting Monti & Gannon out the door if we trade out of Will Anderson territory or draft Tyree Wilson under any circumstance. Would be a horrendous first off-season.

Not to mention, you have the most conservative footabll mentality on here. So, I understand why you love this approach.
Yeah, sorry that my "conservative football mentality" called out that hiring a losing college football coach that got fired and couldn't find a college HC job, and taking his mancrush one-year wonder QB over one of the elite pass rushers in football was a bad decision... for like four straight years.

Feel free to fling more crap at the wall though.

i also don't want tyree wilson
 

BritCard

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So you don't think KM's good enough to have a 4,000 yard passing season? Cool.

Yeah I thought the same. 3800 + 500 is very meh. It's worse than 2nd year 2020 Kyler.

Kyler "showing everyone" would be 5000 yards passing and 30+ TDs. Couldn't care less about his running.
 
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Solar7

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Hopium is free. It's not a criticism, either. I wish I could have blind faith in a regime I had no idea would actually be any good. It would make supporting this team a lot easier. I'm actually a bit jealous.
It's funny that you and I have gone from near lockstep agreement on this team for the past couple of years to now near diametric opposition, lol.

I'm just happy to cut out the rot and see where things go. Not huffing the hopium, but looking forward to an approach not built from a front office that had continuity from 1996.
 

BritCard

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Yeah, sorry that my "conservative football mentality" called out that hiring a losing college football coach that got fired and couldn't find a college HC job, and taking his mancrush one-year wonder QB over one of the elite pass rushers in football was a bad decision... for like four straight years.

Feel free to fling more crap at the wall though.

i also don't want tyree wilson

I love Will Anderson, been a big fan for a couple of years and I think he's going to be great but I don't get the "Anderson or we suck" takes at all.

The league is full of great pass rushers on teams that have achieved nothing. Myles Garrett has 1 winning season in 6.

I'm sure Brown's fans love Garrett. I'm also sure they would trade him in a blink of an eye if it meant having a team that consistently made the playoffs.

Give me 3 solid to good players over 1 great one for a team who's at least 10 players away from playoff shots. For example, if we took the Lions two 1st's and a 2nd and turned them into Gonzalez, Kancey and Avila I'd be elated.
 
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Solar7

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I love Will Anderson, been a big fan for a couple of years and I think he's going to be great but I don't get the "Anderson or we suck" takes at all.

The league is full of great pass rushers on teams that have achieved nothing. Myles Garrett has 1 winning season in 6.

I'm sure Brown's fans love Garrett. I'm also sure they would trade him in a blink of an eye if it meant having a team that consistently made the playoffs.

Give me 3 solid to good players over 1 great one for a team who's at least 10 players away from playoff shots. or example, if we took the Lions two 1st's and a 2nd and turned them into Gonzalez, Kancey and Avila I'd be elated.
I'm hella torn. I want Anderson above all, just like Stout... but I can embrace moving back for a big haul.

Planting my flag here, I want to move back one pick, get Will Anderson, and get just about anything for the privilege of doing so. Or, just take the guy at 3. I'm not gonna freak if we move back for a great haul though. There's been a lot of posited scenarios on the board, some great, some terrible.

I'd be enthused to slide back a few spots to like, the Raiders, if we got next year's first, a second this year, and then got to watch them burn while we end up with two top ten picks in 2024's draft. But not enthused to move back for a 2 and a 3 this year, y'know?

I'm convinced that Will Anderson is the best player in this draft. But we're weak.
 

DVontel

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Yeah, sorry that my "conservative football mentality" called out that hiring a losing college football coach that got fired and couldn't find a college HC job, and taking his mancrush one-year wonder QB over one of the elite pass rushers in football was a bad decision... for like four straight years.

Feel free to fling more crap at the wall though.

i also don't want tyree wilson
You also wanted to hire either Ron Rivera or Mike McCarthy. Two dinosaurs.

Till this day you were against trading up for Mahomes.

Despite the Rams’ process got them to the big one & actually won it all, you played the “but” game.

Yes, that’s conservative.
 

Stout

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I love Will Anderson, been a big fan for a couple of years and I think he's going to be great but I don't get the "Anderson or we suck" takes at all.

The league is full of great pass rushers on teams that have achieved nothing. Myles Garrett has 1 winning season in 6.

I'm sure Brown's fans love Garrett. I'm also sure they would trade him in a blink of an eye if it meant having a team that consistently made the playoffs.

Give me 3 solid to good players over 1 great one for a team who's at least 10 players away from playoff shots. For example, if we took the Lions two 1st's and a 2nd and turned them into Gonzalez, Kancey and Avila I'd be elated.
That's how losing franchises continue to be losing franchises. It's not a snapshot league where only the moment matters--long term, it's better to add that great player and then add more solid to good players around them--and it isn't only one approach that can be taken--we're allowed to draft a great player and sign other players in FA. We're also allowed to draft other solid to good players later in the draft.

If you offer me one truly great players or 3 solid to good players, I'd take the great one 10 times out of 10.
 
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Solar7

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You also wanted to hire either Ron Rivera or Mike McCarthy. Two dinosaurs.

Till this day you were against trading up for Mahomes.

Despite the Rams’ process got them to the big one & actually won it all, you played the “but” game.

Yes, that’s conservative.
Holy hell. McCarthy and Rivera have more coaching accolades even in their new jobs than Kingsbury did. 12-5 for McCarthy in 2021. 12-5 in 2022... and a playoff win. What a dinosaur! Golly! I'd hate to be 12-5 two years in a row, in the playoffs.

Rivera has led a franchise in complete cultural demise to roughly an even record with garbage at QB.

I heavily advocated for drafting Mahomes way back when, and you can go check my post history. What I don't do is pretend that the team would have been smart to throw an extra first round pick out for a QB that many thought would be a gimmick, because I actually understand how this all works, and I don't pretend hindsight is a thing that works. Same with Watson. Go back, read my posts. See how much I advocated for both QBs.

Maybe this will net me a ban, which I've never gotten here. You've been nothing but an ******* to everyone, race bait and age bait at every corner, insist everyone is out of touch because we're white (are we?) and old (are we?), you get to call people "females," in the worst way possible, and you don't know any of us. You're not special.

Seriously man, kick rocks.
 

BritCard

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Holy hell. McCarthy and Rivera have more coaching accolades even in their new jobs than Kingsbury did. 12-5 for McCarthy in 2021. 12-5 in 2022... and a playoff win. What a dinosaur! Golly! I'd hate to be 12-5 two years in a row, in the playoffs.

Rivera has led a franchise in complete cultural demise to roughly an even record with garbage at QB.

I heavily advocated for drafting Mahomes way back when, and you can go check my post history. What I don't do is pretend that the team would have been smart to throw an extra first round pick out for a QB that many thought would be a gimmick, because I actually understand how this all works, and I don't pretend hindsight is a thing that works. Same with Watson. Go back, read my posts. See how much I advocated for both QBs.

Maybe this will net me a ban, which I've never gotten here. You've been nothing but an ******* to everyone, race bait and age bait at every corner, insist everyone is out of touch because we're white (are we?) and old (are we?), you get to call people "females," in the worst way possible, and you don't know any of us. You're not special.

Seriously man, kick rocks.

Takes a special type of person to both dislike @Shane and make Solar angry.
 

Krangodnzr

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That's how losing franchises continue to be losing franchises. It's not a snapshot league where only the moment matters--long term, it's better to add that great player and then add more solid to good players around them--and it isn't only one approach that can be taken--we're allowed to draft a great player and sign other players in FA. We're also allowed to draft other solid to good players later in the draft.

If you offer me one truly great players or 3 solid to good players, I'd take the great one 10 times out of 10.
I'd love to see a few trades where a team traded out of a pick where a superstar went and turned all those extra picks into a better move.
 

DVontel

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Holy hell. McCarthy and Rivera have more coaching accolades even in their new jobs than Kingsbury did. 12-5 for McCarthy in 2021. 12-5 in 2022... and a playoff win. What a dinosaur! Golly! I'd hate to be 12-5 two years in a row, in the playoffs.

Rivera has led a franchise in complete cultural demise to roughly an even record with garbage at QB.
Are you really comparing them to Kingsbury? Is that how low the bar is?
I heavily advocated for drafting Mahomes way back when, and you can go check my post history.
You advocated for drafting Mahomes, but in the same breath, you were against doing whatever it takes to draft him. That doesn’t sound like “heavily advocated” to me. I don’t think it really does to you, either.
Maybe this will net me a ban, which I've never gotten here. You've been nothing but an ******* to everyone, race bait and age bait at every corner, insist everyone is out of touch because we're white (are we?) and old (are we?), you get to call people "females," in the worst way possible, and you don't know any of us. You're not special.

Seriously man, kick rocks.
You feel better now?
 
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Solar7

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Takes a special type of person to both dislike @Shane and make Solar angry.
Haha dude, all of my former coworkers have said that if I go off, you know something bad really happened.

And I live in the same city as @Shane, who I actually haven't met, but I have the highest opinion of. Fight's on.

:jedi:
 

BritCard

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I'd love to see a few trades where a team traded out of a pick where a superstar went and turned all those extra picks into a better move.

I don't think there were any last year in the top 10.

Washington trade #11 (Olave) for #16 a 3rd and 4th and got Dotson who was also very good. The 3rd became Brian Robinson. The 4th they traded again which became Sam Howell and Cole Turner.

Colts and Jets is the obvious one and the Colts won that. They gave up Bradley Chubb and turned that into Quentin Nelson, Braden Smith and Rock Ya-Sin.

They blew trading #49 (Goedert) for Turay and Jordan Wilkins.
 
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Solar7

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Cool, let's continue.

Are you really comparing them to Kingsbury? Is that how low the bar is?
Yes, at the time we fought over this, and your love of making moves that aren't "conservative," you were Stanning Kliff. That's how low the innovative bar is.
You advocated for drafting Mahomes, but in the same breath, you were against doing whatever it takes to draft him. That doesn’t sound like “heavily advocated” to me. I don’t think it really does to you, either.
This is just a completely ridiculous take. I advocated moving up for Rosen. Like Dennis Green, when we got Leinart at 10, I thought it was a gift from God. I even backed it up in person, telling Matty Heisman he'd take us to the Super Bowl. Oops, messed up. But we didn't waste a lot.

You can shoot your shot, move up, and the numbers actually don't back that concept up. Carson Wentz and Jared Goff are mediocre to bad. Could have called your shot on Mitch Trubisky. Or Mayfield. Or Darnold.

That's why I think moving up is mathematically proven to be a stupid move. I think the Panthers are gonna fail miserably with what they just did.

God, wouldn't we have loved to get the QB that Kliff Kingsbury managed to a losing record?

lol, lmao even.
You feel better now?
Nope.
 

DVontel

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Yes, at the time we fought over this, and your love of making moves that aren't "conservative," you were Stanning Kliff. That's how low the innovative bar is.
I didn't "stan" Kliff. I don't stan anyone. However, I did prefer going the route of the unusual instead of the retreads. McCarthy is continuing to underachieve with SB favorite teams and Rivera is basically repeating what Jay Gruden was doing, but with more talented teams.
This is just a completely ridiculous take.
"Man, I really want this QB. I hope my team does whatever it takes to draft him. Actually, no, I don't if it requires a trade up. So, do I really want to do whatever it takes".
I think the Panthers are gonna fail miserably with what they just did.
lol, of course you do. Very on-brand.
Welp, that's too bad.
 

HairZach

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Holy hell. McCarthy and Rivera have more coaching accolades even in their new jobs than Kingsbury did. 12-5 for McCarthy in 2021. 12-5 in 2022... and a playoff win. What a dinosaur! Golly! I'd hate to be 12-5 two years in a row, in the playoffs.
I personally think McCarthy's current success is due to Dan Quinn being a genius. Kingsbury thoroughly outcoached McCarthy both times they matched up. Now you may argue that McCarthy got Dan Quin due to his connections and pedigree, and that if we had McCarthy we would have Quin. But the only reason Quin has stayed on as DC is because Jerry Jones money whipped him. Bidwill would not have done that.
 
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I’ve been consistent that Kyler Murray is an immensely talented player. I don’t know if he can win a Super Bowl but he’s better than half the QBs in the league.

You lose 12 games with Davis Mills at QB.

Unfortunately in recent history, we also lose many games with Kyler at QB. Yes, he has amazing physical talent but it is hard to ignore that the previous season+ occurred. Which also included one of the worst playoff performances by a QB in NFL history.

I'm unclear why Kyler should be absolved of blame if he continues to struggle under this new regime? How many coaches would we need to cycle through before Kyler is considered a big factor in the team not being successful?
 

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IMO: Monti is pursuing a Coyotes-Lite rebuilding

for those not following the local hockey club: the Coyotes when through a period of marginal fighting for playoff spot teams that had big contracts (Phil Kessel) etc --

new GM came last offseason and basically tore it down to the foundation, traded every valuable vet for draft picks, signed a bunch of journeymen players with an eye towards the draft. Oh by the way: he works for a cash constrained owner and this approach is quite inexpensive. I think their timeline is like 3 seasons--which corresponds to getting a new building and better revenue. Its beginning to pay off for them, but still uncertain.

i see the same thing with the Cards. Maybe not three seasons, but cheap for two offseasons with an eye towards new media deals coming in and rev going up for the team -- and at that time, the roster is rebuilt with young players and the window "opens" again for them.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Passing on an uber talented player(Anderson) to get more players you hope to turn out to be as good as the player you could have had doesn't make sense to me.

Anderson has been the best rated prospect the past 2 years. It's not like Travon Walker last year who had a good combine and all of a sudden went #1. Then played like the lower rated prospect he was.

The only trade down I'd entertain is to 4 where you still get Anderson.
 

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People are sure putting a ton of faith that Monti is going to "hit" on a high % of draft picks and then somehow convince free agents to come play for a notoriously cheap owner.

While history shows that maybe he'll hit on 40% of his draft picks and Bidwill is not going to change his ways in free agency because they have been really bad in that department as well.

As much as I dislike Cowherd, I had to agree with him. The other day on his radio show, he got into a discussion about Lamar and Kyler. He was actually defending Kyler. He said Lamar has been playing for the "gold standard" of franchises while Murray has been playing for a tire fire of a franchise.
 

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Assuming the guy ever returns to complete health and the dynamic movement he's known for. We've all really got to accept the concern that he might not. Is Kyler at 70% of his rushing ability great enough to make up for other problems?

This league is full of guys whose mobility has worn down at this position. Carson Wentz has gone from an MVP candidate to jobless. Watson's a nobody now until proven otherwise. Mariota the same.

Heck, Russell Wilson maintained his skill for a good while, but is now basically cooked, barring an unexpected recovery.

I'm worried we don't see a truly "healthy" KM until he's 28, and between injury and age, I don't know if we're ever getting the same guy.

Kyler Murray can be a top 15 QB without using his mobility. He just can’t be an MVP candidate.

I don’t think Kyler likes to run unless there’s a ton of space in front of him. Maybe if something is on the line, but we haven’t seen that situation often.

So you don't think KM's good enough to have a 4,000 yard passing season? Cool.

Not if he’s only starting 15 games. Only nine quarterbacks surpassed 4000 yards last year. I think Kyler is Very Good but probably not elite as a pure passer.

Yeah I thought the same. 3800 + 500 is very meh. It's worse than 2nd year 2020 Kyler.

Kyler "showing everyone" would be 5000 yards passing and 30+ TDs. Couldn't care less about his running.

QB rushing matters when you don’t want to pay for or highly draft running backs.
Unfortunately in recent history, we also lose many games with Kyler at QB. Yes, he has amazing physical talent but it is hard to ignore that the previous season+ occurred. Which also included one of the worst playoff performances by a QB in NFL history.

I'm unclear why Kyler should be absolved of blame if he continues to struggle under this new regime? How many coaches would we need to cycle through before Kyler is considered a big factor in the team not being successful?
He’s not absolved of anything. It will be very obvious if he can’t play in a pro-style offense. But I fail to see how or why the Jonathan Gannon regime should stay in place for another quarterback right now.

If Gannon is leading a top 5 defense and a 12-20 offense, we should still be winning 9-11 games and competing for a playoff spot.
 

BritCard

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Passing on an uber talented player(Anderson) to get more players you hope to turn out to be as good as the player you could have had doesn't make sense to me.

Anderson has been the best rated prospect the past 2 years. It's not like Travon Walker last year who had a good combine and all of a sudden went #1. Then played like the lower rated prospect he was.

The only trade down I'd entertain is to 4 where you still get Anderson.

They're not hoping they turn out any more than they are Anderson.

We all think Anderson is a sure thing. But we all thought Chase Young was a sure thing too and he's been quite meh. At the end of the day we don't know.

If they do trade back it will be because tens of thousands of man hours lead them to believe that Gonzalez at #7 or Whoever at #11 is as sure a thing as Anderson at #3. It will be because their scouting and film study tells them that player is great and they think they can get him further back and pick up picks.
 

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IMO: Monti is pursuing a Coyotes-Lite rebuilding

for those not following the local hockey club: the Coyotes when through a period of marginal fighting for playoff spot teams that had big contracts (Phil Kessel) etc --

new GM came last offseason and basically tore it down to the foundation, traded every valuable vet for draft picks, signed a bunch of journeymen players with an eye towards the draft. Oh by the way: he works for a cash constrained owner and this approach is quite inexpensive. I think their timeline is like 3 seasons--which corresponds to getting a new building and better revenue. Its beginning to pay off for them, but still uncertain.

i see the same thing with the Cards. Maybe not three seasons, but cheap for two offseasons with an eye towards new media deals coming in and rev going up for the team -- and at that time, the roster is rebuilt with young players and the window "opens" again for them.
:barf:
 

Stout

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They're not hoping they turn out any more than they are Anderson.

We all think Anderson is a sure thing. But we all thought Chase Young was a sure thing too and he's been quite meh. At the end of the day we don't know.

If they do trade back it will be because tens of thousands of man hours lead them to believe that Gonzalez at #7 or Whoever at #11 is as sure a thing as Anderson at #3. It will be because their scouting and film study tells them that player is great and they think they can get him further back and pick up picks.
Or it will be because they think they're the smartest people in the room. They'll convince themselves of all the things you posted, or something similar, but that won't make any of it true. I first hope Monti doesn't trade back, then hope to holy hell that it goes against script and turns out to be a good idea or at least kind of worth it.
 
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