Muffin's Top 21 & Other Players of Interest - Rev. 2

[RugbyMuffin]

So, much has happened since I put out my first list. Thus I sat down with my morning coffee and put together another list, with some comments and additions that were recommended to me via other ASFN'ers (Thank you).

Some notes:
1. I think the Cardinals trade with Cincinnati if a few select players are not there. I believe there is a shelf of top talent players and then this draft quickly falls off to the group of "prospect/project" players that need a little while to develop.

2. Unless there is a very good opportunity that presents itself, I do not see the Cardinals going after a transition DE to OLB, RB, ILB, or a WR that is not a "big body" in the first round, or if the trade is made first or second round.

3. My list will be a top 21, because of the inclusion of the trade with Cincy. If we do trade I see the Cardinals getting the 21st pick (1st round) and the 55th pick (2nd Round).

4. After losing out on Peyton Manning, this Cardinal team has to embrace what it has become. The players, talent, coaching, and strengths are on defense. A DB, OLB, or ILB would really help this defense right now. They could draft a defensive player and have the option of using him as a rotational guy during the season.



TOP 21:

1. Andrew Luck - QB
- Obvious.

2. Robert Griffin III - QB
- Obvious.

3. Matt Kalil - OT
- Noted as the best LT in the draft.

4. Morris Claiborne - CB
- Just a dream. A sweet dream. Peterson, Toler, and Claiborne. Sure. Pass on this secondary. I dare you.

------- Above are a lock to be chosen before #13----------------
5. David DeCastro - OG
- Would give our O-Line a leader, top flight guard for the next 10 years. When he gets older, put him at center. If he is there at 13. He is the pick over anyone other then the four players listed above.

6. Riley Reiff - OT
- The Cardinals need a OT. Reiff is the only player besides Kalil I would stick at #13 and chose.

------- Should Trade Down to #21 at this point----------------
7. Michael Floyd - WR
- Big Body WR, with speed. Pick a OL in the 2nd round

8. Steven Hill - WR
- Big Body WR, with speed. Pick a OL in the 2nd round. Boom or bust pick

9. Justin Blackmon - WR
- Big Body WR. Pick a OL in the 2nd round. Obviously he would have to free fall to his position. But if he is there at 21 ? You gotta pick him.

10. Dre Kirkpatrick - CB
- Again. This is a CB that would be ideal to be our #2 CB with Peterson.

11. Cordy Glenn - OT
- The more and more I watch Glenn the more I like this pick at #21. Atheletiscim at the OT position seems to be what works in the NFL. The guy has the tools, IMO. At worst? He becomes a OG.

12. Dont'a Hightower - ILB
- Played his college ball in a 3-4 defense. Not only can he play the middle but he can play OLB. Runs a 4.6, 260lbs, and a few years in a NFL weight room is going to make him a great, yes great, NFL player for year to come, IMO.

13. Stephen Gilmore - CB
- Big for a CB, but has all the tools. Like Fitzpatrick.

14. Mark Barron - S
- We are going to need a safety in the very near future. Barron can step right in as our 3rd safety.

15. Nick Perry - OLB
- I hate picking a college DE, and then expecting him to transition to a OLB. I hate it. Barely ever works. Yet, Perry is a phenom as a pass rusher, worth the risk.

16. Courtney Upshaw - OLB
- The guy has played OLB in a 3-4 defense in college. Solid player, at a position of need that can play well against the run, and a decent pass rusher.


------- Would entertain trading down again at this point----------------
17. Janoris Jenkins - CB
- Has the talent but a character risk. Little short.

18. Melvin Ingram – DE/OLB
- Again, not a fan of the transition DE. Better prospect, IMO, then Coples

19. Kendell Wright - WR
- Seems to be a hype pick that thrived as a broken play WR. Slot type WR, don't know where his role would be on this team.

20. Luke Keuchly - ILB
- I am hot and cold on this guy. Just don't see him in our 3-4 system. Would have to be a WILB, IMO. Not as versitile as Hightower.

21. Jonathan Martin - OT
- Watch the film, look at his frame, realize the team he was on. Seems to be a guy who is riding the success of his team, more than his individual skill set. Give me Michael Schwartz over Martin.


OUT:
Mike Adams - OT <-- Levi Brown/Leonard Davis part III
Ryan Tannehill - QB <-- No. Double Deuce all the way.
Trent Richardson - RB <-- The days of 1st round RB are over. Rather have Wells.
Quinton Coples - DE <-- If we take a transition guy give me Perry, or Ingram.



LATE ROUND PLAYERS OF INTEREST:
Jayron Hosley, CB (2) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Mitchell Schwartz, OT (2-3)
Bobby Massie, OT (2-3)
Brian Quick, WR (2-3)
Harrison Smith, S (2-3)
Trumaine Johnson, CB/S (2-3)
Phillip Blake, OG/OC (2-3)
Kelechi Osemele, OG/OT (2-3)
Amini Silatolu, OG/OT (2-3)
Ronnell Lewis, DE/OLB (2-3)
Jonathan Massaquoi, DE/OLB (2-3)
George Iloka, S (2-3)
Tommy Streeter,WR (2-4)
Juron Criner, WR (2-4) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Derek Wolfe, DE (2-4)
Trenton Robinson, S (3-4)
T.Y. Hilton, WR (3-4)
Tony Bergstrom, OT (3-4)
Bruce Irvin, DE/OLB (3-5)
Chase Minifield, CB (3-5)
Senio Kelemete, OG (3-5)
Brandon Mosley, OT (3-5)
Nate Potter, OT (4)
AJ Jenkins, WR (4-5)
Tavon Wilson, CB/S (4-6) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Justin Bethel, CB (4-6)
Omar Bolden, CB/S <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Levy Adcock, OT (4-7)
Al Netter, OT (4-7)
Travis Benjaminm, WR (5-6)
Steven Good, OG (5-6)
Adrien Cole, ILB (5-7)
Mike Ryan, OT (5-7)
Hebron Fangupo, DT (5-7)
Brett Roy, DT/DE (5-7)
Chris Galippo, ILB (5-7)
Ryan Davis, DE/OLB (5-7) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Joe Long, OT (6)
Art Forst, OG (6-7)
Derek Dennis, OG (6-7)
Darius Flemming, OLB (6-7)
DJ Holt, ILB (6-7)
Najae Goode, ILB (6-7)
Tank Carder, WILB (6-7)
Ronnie Cameron, DT (6-UDFA) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Ron Brooks, CB (7-UDFA)
Matt Conrath, DT/DE (7-UDFA) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Josh Oglesby, OT (7-UDFA)
Demario Fletcher, WR (UDFA) <--- All talent, no brain.


Out:
Winston Guy, S <-- Not as big or fast as advertised
Bobby Wagner, ILB <-- Too small for ILB in 3-4.
Brandon Washington, G <-- Better prospects at the position at his projected round
Jaques Smith, OLB <-- Nope.
Nick Toon, WR <-- Flounder. Not letting him in because he is a legacy. Better prospects available.
Ryan Broyles, WR <-- Better prospects available.
Kelvin Beachum, OG <-- I'd take Art Forst over him.
James Rodgers, WR <--- 5'7" WR coming off a knee injury. Nope.
Shea McClellin, DE/OLB <-- Value has sky rocketted to 2nd rnd. No way. Take R. Lewis who is a better prospect. If he drops, he is a possibility.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Good stuff!

This word really does befuddle you...

Atheletiscim

Athleticism

Athlete... how it's spelled and pronounced.

P.S. Trent Richardson - RB - not likely to get out of top 10, let alone first round (IMO)

Melvin Ingram will be a top 15 pick.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Good stuff!

This word really does befuddle you...

Atheletiscim

Athleticism

Athlete... how it's spelled and pronounced.

P.S. Trent Richardson - RB - not likely to get out of top 10, let alone first round (IMO)

Melvin Ingram will be a top 15 pick.

Stupid words, and spelling. Bet I could spell it in binary.

 

[Duckjake]

Don't forget that Sam Acho was a transition DE.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Blackmon isn't a lock to go before 13? Friendly wager? I'll even give you 2:1 odds.

 

[Chopper0080]

With Ingram having played standing up some at South Carolina, his transition is a little less risky.

My personal preference is either trade up for Matt Kalil, stay where we are and draft David DeCastro or Melvin Ingram, or trade back in the draft. Nothing else really makes sense to me at this point.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Blackmon isn't a lock to go before 13? Friendly wager? I'll even give you 2:1 odds.

My bad. You are correct, he will never get past the Rams

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Don't forget that Sam Acho was a transition DE.

But he was picked in the 4th round.

It is not that I don't like when a team drafts a DE and then tries to make a OLB out them in the 3-4 defense. I just don't like drafting those type of players early in the draft, especially with a 1st round pick. The player would have to be an amazing player to take that risk, imo

 

[kerouac9]

Rugby--why would Cincy trade up that far, at the expense of their second-round pick. Even IF there's a talent drop-off after the first seven picks or so, and the guys chosen 8-20 are roughly the same, why would Cincy give up their second-round pick to get a guy who's not head-and-shoulders above the they they'd get with their own first?

Trade-down scenarios are always fun; I get why people like to do them. But they're impossible to predict and I'm guessing that the Cards are going to see someone they like/have ranked high on their board when they go on the clock next month.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rugby--why would Cincy trade up that far, at the expense of their second-round pick. Even IF there's a talent drop-off after the first seven picks or so, and the guys chosen 8-20 are roughly the same, why would Cincy give up their second-round pick to get a guy who's not head-and-shoulders above the they they'd get with their own first?

Trade-down scenarios are always fun; I get why people like to do them. But they're impossible to predict and I'm guessing that the Cards are going to see someone they like/have ranked high on their board when they go on the clock next month.

The only reason I put it in there, was because of the reports from "Cardinals Insiders" about the possibility of a trade.

I am not the only one who thinks it might happen. Don Banks has the same move happening on his Mock Draft on SI.com.

But, when all is said and done, it is just a option/possibility. Thus why I listed my top 21. As you said there is not that much of a difference between 13 to 21 so the above list works for both scenarios, IMO.

And, finally, the possibility of a trade down allowed me to start looking at 2nd round prospects, that I would not have been looking at before. AKA gave me something to do.

I do agree. That someone "high" on the list has a good chance of being available at #13. Why ? Cause the draft NEVER goes how the mainstream thinks it will go. That goes for me all the way up to the Mayocks, and Kipers.

 

[kerouac9]

The only reason I put it in there, was because of the reports from "Cardinals Insiders" about the possibility of a trade.

I am not the only one who thinks it might happen. Don Banks has the same move happening on his Mock Draft on SI.com.

But, when all is said and done, it is just a option/possibility. Thus why I listed my top 21. As you said there is not that much of a difference between 13 to 21 so the above list works for both scenarios, IMO.

And, finally, the possibility of a trade down allowed me to start looking at 2nd round prospects, that I would not have been looking at before.

Fair enough. Banks thinks that Cincy would do it to go up and get Trent Richardson. I kind of expect Richardson to get off the board before then, which would make that trade projection pretty speculative.

I totally get that it's fun to project trades down. There just isn't a lot of history saying that's something the Cards do or even look to do. I don't expect it to happen this year, either. The Cards ended the year 7-2, and you don't get over that hump by adding depth players; this team needs catalyzing playmakers--on both sides of the ball.

 

[Cardiac]

Rugby--why would Cincy trade up that far, at the expense of their second-round pick. Even IF there's a talent drop-off after the first seven picks or so, and the guys chosen 8-20 are roughly the same, why would Cincy give up their second-round pick to get a guy who's not head-and-shoulders above the they they'd get with their own first?

Trade-down scenarios are always fun; I get why people like to do them. But they're impossible to predict and I'm guessing that the Cards are going to see someone they like/have ranked high on their board when they go on the clock next month.

Fair enough. Banks thinks that Cincy would do it to go up and get Trent Richardson. I kind of expect Richardson to get off the board before then, which would make that trade projection pretty speculative.

I totally get that it's fun to project trades down. There just isn't a lot of history saying that's something the Cards do or even look to do. I don't expect it to happen this year, either. The Cards ended the year 7-2, and you don't get over that hump by adding depth players; this team needs catalyzing playmakers--on both sides of the ball.

Now those are tactful responses.

I'm with Rugby that I would like to entertain the idea of trading down and I actually hope it happens. I do agree with you though that the Cards don't have a history of doing this.

K9, what do you think of Richardson? Is he AP good? What current NFL RB would make a good comparisson?

 

[kerouac9]

Now those are tactful responses.

I'm with Rugby that I would like to entertain the idea of trading down and I actually hope it happens. I do agree with you though that the Cards don't have a history of doing this.

K9, what do you think of Richardson? Is he AP good? What current NFL RB would make a good comparisson?

Well, the tact of my responses varies for the respect I have for the poster I'm replying to.

I don't really watch too much college football, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. The guy Trent Richardson reminds me of is maybe the best running back in the NFL: Maurice Jones-Drew. Richardson doesn't have the size of Adrian Peterson or Darren McFadden, but he's probably quicker than those guys, too.

RBs are kind of a hard evaluation. A lot of the highlights that I see of Richardson, he doesn't get touched until he reaches the third level of the defense, if even then. What's going to happen when the creases aren't as clean in the NFL?

One thing I do really like about him is that he doesn't really take solid hits. When he gets tackled, he doesn't take the kinds of impacts that McFadden, Peterson, or Beanie Wells takes going down. I think that's going to help his career at the next level. Ladanian Tomlinson was kind of the same way.

 

[Cardiac]

Well, the tact of my responses varies for the respect I have for the poster I'm replying to.

I don't really watch too much college football, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. The guy Trent Richardson reminds me of is maybe the best running back in the NFL: Maurice Jones-Drew. Richardson doesn't have the size of Adrian Peterson or Darren McFadden, but he's probably quicker than those guys, too.

RBs are kind of a hard evaluation. A lot of the highlights that I see of Richardson, he doesn't get touched until he reaches the third level of the defense, if even then. What's going to happen when the creases aren't as clean in the NFL?

One thing I do really like about him is that he doesn't really take solid hits. When he gets tackled, he doesn't take the kinds of impacts that McFadden, Peterson, or Beanie Wells takes going down. I think that's going to help his career at the next level. Ladanian Tomlinson was kind of the same way.

I don't watch much college ball either but I have the same impression of Richardson as you in that the highlights show him running through gaping holes.

RB's can be the most impactful players as rookies so I see the attraction but the vast majority have a short shelf life so I wouldn't take any RB in the top ten. Plus add in your thoughts that they are rather tough to evaluate and I'm even less inclined to draft one early.

Having said that if Richardson is either Jones-Drew or LT like then I would have to consider drafting Richardson in the top ten.

 

[Dr. Jones]

In my opinion, Richardson is the most prepared / best back to come out since AP. If he is there at 13 (which he probably wont be) then we will have multiple offers on our plate to decide from.

I think Cincy might give us both of their 1st rounders for 13 if TR is there.

 

[Cardiac]

In my opinion, Richardson is the most prepared / best back to come out since AP. If he is there at 13 (which he probably wont be) then we will have multiple offers on our plate to decide from.

I think Cincy might give us both of their 1st rounders for 13 if TR is there.[/QUOTE]

Man oh man I hope you are right. Thing is that if they are willing to give up two 1st rd picks they could do it sooner and assure they get their man.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't watch much college ball either but I have the same impression of Richardson as you in that the highlights show him running through gaping holes.

RB's can be the most impactful players as rookies so I see the attraction but the vast majority have a short shelf life so I wouldn't take any RB in the top ten. Plus add in your thoughts that they are rather tough to evaluate and I'm even less inclined to draft one early.

Having said that if Richardson is either Jones-Drew or LT like then I would have to consider drafting Richardson in the top ten.

I don't get that logic. If you get seven years of Pro Bowl play from your first-round pick, I think you walk away happier than if you'd gotten Calvin Pace for 10 years.

With the 50% bust rate plus another 15% being disappointments in first-round picks, wouldn't you rather go with a guy who you're sure is going to be awesome for his first contract?

I don't think that Miami has any regrets about taking Ronnie Brown over anyone else in the Top 10 of the 2005 draft (seriously--one of the worst drafts ever, right?).

 

[Duckjake]

I don't get that logic. If you get seven years of Pro Bowl play from your first-round pick, I think you walk away happier than if you'd gotten Calvin Pace for 10 years.

With the 50% bust rate plus another 15% being disappointments in first-round picks, wouldn't you rather go with a guy who you're sure is going to be awesome for his first contract?

I don't think that Miami has any regrets about taking Ronnie Brown over anyone else in the Top 10 of the 2005 draft (seriously--one of the worst drafts ever, right?).

For the Cardinals maybe. I don't know about overall. DeMarcus Ware, Aaron Rodgers, Logan Mankins, Heath Miller, Carlos Rogers,Steroid Merriman, Roddy White.

May have been the worst draft ever for goofballs.

Cedric Benson, PacMan Jones, Braylon Edwards, Mike Williams, Maurice Clarett....

 

[Dr. Jones]

In my opinion, Richardson is the most prepared / best back to come out since AP. If he is there at 13 (which he probably wont be) then we will have multiple offers on our plate to decide from.

I think Cincy might give us both of their 1st rounders for 13 if TR is there.[/QUOTE]

Man oh man I hope you are right. Thing is that if they are willing to give up two 1st rd picks they could do it sooner and assure they get their man.

My guess is that those two picks aren't strong enough to get into the top 10. If TR makes it to 13 however...... It should definitely work on the trade chart.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The guy Trent Richardson reminds me most of is DeAngelo Williams. Also I look for Williams to be traded to Denver anytime now. Fox drafted him and I can't see any way the Panthers keep Williams, Stewart, AND Tolbert. I think they also still have Mike Goodson who has filled in well for them in the past.

Also, nice work on the list. I don't see Cincy trading up though. I can see another team trying to trade when another player(Blackmon, maybe) starts dropping.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well, the tact of my responses varies for the respect I have for the poster I'm replying to.
I don't really watch too much college football, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. The guy Trent Richardson reminds me of is maybe the best running back in the NFL: Maurice Jones-Drew. Richardson doesn't have the size of Adrian Peterson or Darren McFadden, but he's probably quicker than those guys, too.

RBs are kind of a hard evaluation. A lot of the highlights that I see of Richardson, he doesn't get touched until he reaches the third level of the defense, if even then. What's going to happen when the creases aren't as clean in the NFL?

One thing I do really like about him is that he doesn't really take solid hits. When he gets tackled, he doesn't take the kinds of impacts that McFadden, Peterson, or Beanie Wells takes going down. I think that's going to help his career at the next level. Ladanian Tomlinson was kind of the same way.

Well I guess I know where I stand then...I guess I should be happy you reply more than just "idiot" to my posts now.

 

[kerouac9]

Well I guess I know where I stand then...I guess I should be happy you reply more than just "idiot" to my posts now.

Well, you and Mulli are the most persuadeable posters on this board. Canuck isn't persuadable, exactly, but he's rigorous in considering others' opinions.

I figure if you and Mulli are saying the same things I was two or three weeks earlier, I'm doing a good job.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Trying to sort these players a little better


Players won't make it past Top 12 picks:
Andrew Luck, QB
Robert Griffin III, QB
Matt Kalil, OT
Morris Claiborne, CB
Justin Blackmon, WR


Players won't make it past Top 13-20 picks:
David DeCastro, OG
Riley Reiff, OT
Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB
Trent Richardson, RB
Ryan Tannehill, QB


Players won't make it past Top 21-32 picks:
Michael Floyd, WR
Steven Hill, WR
Dre Kirkpatrick, CB
Steven Gilmore, CB
Cordy Glenn, OG/OT
Dont'a Hightower, ILB
Mark Barron, S
Nick Perry, DE/OLB
Quinton Coples, DE
Courtney Upshaw, OLB
Luke Keuchly, ILB


Players won't make it past Top 33-43 picks (top of 2nd round):
Janoris Jenkins, CB
Kendell Wright, WR
Mike Adams, OT


Player won't make it out of 2nd round:
Ronnell Lewis, DE/OLB
Jayron Hosley, CB
Jonathan Martin,OT
Kelechi Osemele, OG/OT
Mitchell Schwartz, OT
Bobby Massie, OT
Brian Quick, WR
Trumaine Johnson, CB/S


Player won't make it out of 3rd round:
Amini Silatolu, OG/OT
Phillip Blake, OG/OC
Harrison Smith, S
George Iloka, S
Tommy Streeter,WR
Derek Wolfe, DE
Jonathan Massaquoi, DE/OLB


Player won't make it out of 4th round:
Juron Criner, WR
Nate Potter, OT
Senio Kelemete, OG
Trenton Robinson, S
Tony Bergstrom, OT
T.Y. Hilton, WR
Chase Minifield, CB
Bruce Irvin, DE/OLB
Tavon Wilson, CB/S
Justin Bethel, CB


Player won't make it out of 5th round:
Brandon Mosley, OT
AJ Jenkins, WR
Levy Adcock, OT
Al Netter, OT
Adrien Cole, ILB
Ryan Davis, DE/OLB
Omar Bolden, CB/S


Player won't make it out of 6th round:
Travis Benjaminm, WR
Steven Good, OG
Mike Ryan, OT
Brett Roy, DT/DE
Chris Galippo, ILB
Joe Long, OT
Tank Carder, WILB


Player won't make it out of 7th round:
Hebron Fangupo, DT
Darius Flemming, OLB
DJ Holt, ILB
Najae Goode, ILB
Ronnie Cameron, DT
Ron Brooks, CB


Possible UDFA:
Matt Conrath, DT/DE
Art Forst, OG
Derek Dennis, OG
Josh Oglesby, OT
Demario Fletcher, WR